I may have over-reacted...
- Thread starter SuperNaut
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You did right!!! Recognized the threat and react. My Mom almost got mugged by a bunch of thugs at McDonalds, the truck load of football players saw thugs giving my Mom a hard time and they reacted FAST. The BG's realized that they were overmatched and beat feet. My mom thanked them and asked how did they realize she was in trouble. One of them said HE SAW IT ON HER FACE! You know that look of FEAR!!
Anyway, right after that she got her CHL.
Anyway, right after that she got her CHL.
Treo
member
QUOTE: "but I don't think you were brandishing...you didn't pull your gun out and point it at them, you just showed them not to screw with you."
In Colorado showing somebody a weapon so that they know not to screw W/ you is almost the EXACT definition of "brandishing"
That said showing the weapon before they got out of the truck was the ONLY thing I question in the whole incident. I probably wouldn't have called the cops either
In Colorado showing somebody a weapon so that they know not to screw W/ you is almost the EXACT definition of "brandishing"
That said showing the weapon before they got out of the truck was the ONLY thing I question in the whole incident. I probably wouldn't have called the cops either
and with the wolf pack mentality on this board you get from time to time............ugh! I made my concern known on this lets all look at the positive here please. We can all learn from negitive comments like some of the ones in this thread are uncalled for. lets look at this he made the right moves based on he is home posting this versus being dead wounded or in jail. might not have been the best choices but they got him home. Good Job. Now learn, whet could have been done diffrently to get the same result?
1. like the OP said himself just get in the truck and leave
2.get in the truck and wait it out to see what hapened, still armed, still protected.
3. same thing just not exposing his gun and see what they wanted, still in control.
Dksimon
Member
I think you played your cards right, there isn't anything I would have done differently. The main points are that you are ok and that you didnt have to discharge your arm. You successfully difused the situation. +1
Treo
member
QUOTE: "2.get in the truck and wait it out to see what hapened, still armed, still protected."
Nope not gonna happen I've been in that back down and let them come to you mode before & I will NEVER willingly put my self in that position again.
I'd have stayed behind the door till they got out of the truck. At that point I'd ask them "can I help you?". that would have been their last chance. One aggressive move after that & they'd be throwing me the keys to their truck, which I may or may not drop at the end of the street as I'm driving away.
Nope not gonna happen I've been in that back down and let them come to you mode before & I will NEVER willingly put my self in that position again.
I'd have stayed behind the door till they got out of the truck. At that point I'd ask them "can I help you?". that would have been their last chance. One aggressive move after that & they'd be throwing me the keys to their truck, which I may or may not drop at the end of the street as I'm driving away.
physics
Member
While it worked, and everyone is safe, I do think you were just a bit (and I do mean just a little) overzealous in exposing your firearm. Here is why: I have always been under the impression that you should never draw your weapon, or at least expose it, unless you are going to fire. I am not saying that you should always fire if drawing, because that would be silly, but you should be ready to fire if you are drawing.
I ask the OP, were you ready to fire? While these men obviously were a passive threat, were they an active threat? Had they shown a desire and an ability to do you great bodily harm? I say not quite, but obviously, I wasn't there either. I think I would have waited just a bit longer, like let them at least say something about intent to hurt me, or of course exit the vehicle.
I agree with you on having the weapon ready, just not visible. It escalates the situation to one of lethal force. I think the suggestion of starting the vehicle or returning to the office building were also good. I think that retreat is always a better solution to shooting someone, if possible.
Scary stuff though, glad nothing further happened.
I ask the OP, were you ready to fire? While these men obviously were a passive threat, were they an active threat? Had they shown a desire and an ability to do you great bodily harm? I say not quite, but obviously, I wasn't there either. I think I would have waited just a bit longer, like let them at least say something about intent to hurt me, or of course exit the vehicle.
I agree with you on having the weapon ready, just not visible. It escalates the situation to one of lethal force. I think the suggestion of starting the vehicle or returning to the office building were also good. I think that retreat is always a better solution to shooting someone, if possible.
Scary stuff though, glad nothing further happened.
I just read a local case where a guy got armed robbed in a similar setting. The robber pulled alongside the victim and was acting odd and yelling and such, got in close in a parking lot, then he drew on the victim and took his wallet.
The meth head robber and friends went down the road and, after their car overheated, they asked some folks for a ride. The folks said no, which lead to a .380 to the head of the passenger and a kidnapping. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the robber went to jail in the end.
Better safe than sorry when, as said above, the hairs stand up on your neck.
Glad all turned out well.
The meth head robber and friends went down the road and, after their car overheated, they asked some folks for a ride. The folks said no, which lead to a .380 to the head of the passenger and a kidnapping. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the robber went to jail in the end.
Better safe than sorry when, as said above, the hairs stand up on your neck.
Glad all turned out well.
plexreticle
Member
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The OP did good.
Exposing his gun his gun when he shouldn't have, LOL! I would rather tell it to the judge then let a couple of turds get the jump on me.
Exposing his gun his gun when he shouldn't have, LOL! I would rather tell it to the judge then let a couple of turds get the jump on me.
its tough unless you are there 
me I would have gotten in the car been ready but started up the car backed up to get good distance and called the cops tell em what's up get a lic number of the guys and keep a eye on them where they go
smiling the whole time like you are not worried or trying to look tough and not drawing any attention to myself
that way if they get nailed later by the cops you might not even be a thought in the memory
if you made yourself noticed them might remember you more and they know where you park !!
its just my random thoughts
me I would have gotten in the car been ready but started up the car backed up to get good distance and called the cops tell em what's up get a lic number of the guys and keep a eye on them where they go
smiling the whole time like you are not worried or trying to look tough and not drawing any attention to myself
that way if they get nailed later by the cops you might not even be a thought in the memory
if you made yourself noticed them might remember you more and they know where you park !!
its just my random thoughts
I think you did about as good as you could all things considered .
The few things I would do perhaps differently would be considering your local laws .
If you have a CCW permit stick the gun in your waistband and if nothing else conceal it with an untucked shirt , if your laws say open carry again waistband it but leave it visible and when they came back announce that you're armed .
I wouldn't get in the car because you never know they could be crazy enough to ram yours .
I would keep the car between us and just far enough away that if they ram yours you can move out of the way but close enough to use it for cover if needed .
I wouldn't even consider jumping in the car and making a run for it unless I was driving a really hot car that I was very sure could out run them and it was the middle of the night with almost empty roads .
To great of a risk of your getting into a fatal crash trying to out run someone you aren't 100% sure poses a threat . If the cops saw a high speed chase in progress you just never know what the outcome will be especially since you were armed , a chase really pumps up a cops adrenaline .
The few things I would do perhaps differently would be considering your local laws .
If you have a CCW permit stick the gun in your waistband and if nothing else conceal it with an untucked shirt , if your laws say open carry again waistband it but leave it visible and when they came back announce that you're armed .
I wouldn't get in the car because you never know they could be crazy enough to ram yours .
I would keep the car between us and just far enough away that if they ram yours you can move out of the way but close enough to use it for cover if needed .
I wouldn't even consider jumping in the car and making a run for it unless I was driving a really hot car that I was very sure could out run them and it was the middle of the night with almost empty roads .
To great of a risk of your getting into a fatal crash trying to out run someone you aren't 100% sure poses a threat . If the cops saw a high speed chase in progress you just never know what the outcome will be especially since you were armed , a chase really pumps up a cops adrenaline .
Reacting inside a car is difficult because there are so many things in the way, and your body is in an unnatural position. I'd say he did well to ready himself outside of the vehicle, with the option of going in. Displaying his weapon was probably unneccessary... my steps would first have been to wait for them to get out and approach, request that they stay back and then if neccessary back that up, to make it clear that this was a defensive reaction. Everyone has a different safe point, though.
All in all, no-one hurt. That's a win for him either way.
All in all, no-one hurt. That's a win for him either way.
I think you did well. Call me foolish, but I would not wait for someone who has made some outrageous gestures at me to come any closer. The point is to keep the person away from you. Letting them get any closer would have possibly put YOU at a disadvantage. If you had to "brandish" a little bit then so be it. No shots were fired, nobody went to jail, and you made it home. I think these guys were looking for a free dinner at your expense (monetary or safety). It's sad that we have to worry about going to jail for defending ourselves. :banghead:
shadowalker
Member
You did well, it sounds like alarm bells were going off in your head and you listened and reacted pretty well. There are certain times when you KNOW something isn't right, choosing to ignore that feeling is rarely good for a person's health.
You could have perhaps said something with your firearm still concealed but I also don't believe you were brandishing. Having it at ready was a good idea, you do not need to wait be being attacked to have it available.
I would also not want to restrict my ability to move to a vehicle or have them trying to run me off the road, probably better to deal with it there in this case.
Bottom line is it is easy to tell someone how they could have done something better. Also be ready to articulate the things that you noticed that made you go into condition red and respond to any responding law enforcement.
You could have perhaps said something with your firearm still concealed but I also don't believe you were brandishing. Having it at ready was a good idea, you do not need to wait be being attacked to have it available.
I would also not want to restrict my ability to move to a vehicle or have them trying to run me off the road, probably better to deal with it there in this case.
Bottom line is it is easy to tell someone how they could have done something better. Also be ready to articulate the things that you noticed that made you go into condition red and respond to any responding law enforcement.
alaskanativeson
Member
The thing which tells me that the OP did the right thing is that he is now questioning himself. If he's introspective enough to worry about such things I'm guessing he has enough judgement to make the right call on the scene. Of course this is all just conjecture on my part.
YOU were the one there, you felt enough of a threat to arm yourself. Yoer reasoning seems clear and sound. It's good that you are thinking about the situation, do so just up to the point that you learn something: Not to the point that you beat yourself up. In order to have these doubts you must first be alive.
Remember the words of Jim Malone (Sean Connery) in The Untouchables:
"make sure when your shift is over you go home alive."
YOU were the one there, you felt enough of a threat to arm yourself. Yoer reasoning seems clear and sound. It's good that you are thinking about the situation, do so just up to the point that you learn something: Not to the point that you beat yourself up. In order to have these doubts you must first be alive.
Remember the words of Jim Malone (Sean Connery) in The Untouchables:
"make sure when your shift is over you go home alive."
I would have to say these two rednecks were probably out drinking and raising hell and looking to harass someone. Seems their macho attitude though subsided when they seen a weapon. I think what you did was appropriate. No words were exchanged, no threats made and the entire incident defused without a problem.
Here is a video that shows just what some of these guys are like. Watch what happens at the end to the two rednecks.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ETZCmwTYNDk
Chris
Here is a video that shows just what some of these guys are like. Watch what happens at the end to the two rednecks.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ETZCmwTYNDk
Chris
SN,
I'd say that you did fine. I *personally* would not have shown a firearm at that time. I feel it may have been premature.
But you have to understand something about me....
I would spead the next week driving myself nuts with morbid obsession wondering exactly WHAT was going on. As you did it, I'll never get to know what they were doing.
I know... my "need to know" isn't healthy.
Can we please refrain from using derogatory slurs that typically refer to those of particular geographic origin? If we insist on using slurs around here, we have plenty that we can start using.
-- John
I'd say that you did fine. I *personally* would not have shown a firearm at that time. I feel it may have been premature.
But you have to understand something about me....
I would spead the next week driving myself nuts with morbid obsession wondering exactly WHAT was going on. As you did it, I'll never get to know what they were doing.
I know... my "need to know" isn't healthy.
Can we please refrain from using derogatory slurs that typically refer to those of particular geographic origin? If we insist on using slurs around here, we have plenty that we can start using.
-- John
I think you did well and used your pistol to de-escalate a hostile situation. Why did they go from aggressive to quietly leaving? They instantly realized you weren't some easy mark they could jump in a deserted parking lot for laughs.
Is this possible? Sure, but think back on the two perps' original behavior. Were these two young men on their way to Bible study? Considering the time frame, it is more likely they had a bunch of post-work drinks after their shift at the mill let off, and were feeling strong and reckless. They were driving around, saw a guy all alone, and figured they could have some fun- until they saw the pistol.
I disagree with this. Drawing the pistol (and the perps seeing it) was what made them re-think the situation and leave. Had you not drawn, they easily could have jumped out and ran up (intending to attack him) and then you still would have had to draw but with them closing on you.
* I know this is a frequent disagreement on THR but I am not basing this on theory but rather real-life experience. In three situations, I've seen perps go from highly aggressive (in two of the situations it was a large group of males) to suddenly humble and with somewhere else to be. Again, this is based on REAL LIFE not on guys at keyboards speculating on what "could happen" etc.
Do you have to be careful? Yes. Is there a chance a perp can call 911 and lie? Yes. However, I will not back away from this: in some situations, intentionally showing a perp your CCW de-escalates the situation immediately.
Again- good job. You kept your head and handled the situation appropriately.
They instantly realized you weren't some easy mark they could jump in a deserted parking lot for laughs. Is this possible? Sure, but think back on the two perps' original behavior. Were these two young men on their way to Bible study? Considering the time frame, it is more likely they had a bunch of post-work drinks after their shift at the mill let off, and were feeling strong and reckless. They were driving around, saw a guy all alone, and figured they could have some fun- until they saw the pistol.
I disagree with this. Drawing the pistol (and the perps seeing it) was what made them re-think the situation and leave. Had you not drawn, they easily could have jumped out and ran up (intending to attack him) and then you still would have had to draw but with them closing on you.
* I know this is a frequent disagreement on THR but I am not basing this on theory but rather real-life experience. In three situations, I've seen perps go from highly aggressive (in two of the situations it was a large group of males) to suddenly humble and with somewhere else to be. Again, this is based on REAL LIFE not on guys at keyboards speculating on what "could happen" etc.
Do you have to be careful? Yes. Is there a chance a perp can call 911 and lie? Yes. However, I will not back away from this: in some situations, intentionally showing a perp your CCW de-escalates the situation immediately.
Again- good job. You kept your head and handled the situation appropriately.
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Hokkmike
Member
I would have done the same.
Baba Louie
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SN, your OODA loop-fu was strong. Even down to your post-scenario evaluation, re-evaluation.
I'm sure it took longer to tell the story than the actual event itself. What was the total elapsed time frame? 10 seconds? 15? 20?
I agree with the following:
I'm sure it took longer to tell the story than the actual event itself. What was the total elapsed time frame? 10 seconds? 15? 20?
I agree with the following:
You can always get second guessers who have all the answers. I think you did fine, there is always room for improvement and education in all of life's experiences.
The most important thing you did was listen to your instincts, human beings in a modern setting tend to deny them, often to their detriment. Get the book "The Gift Of Fear" for a great discussion of this subject, just ignore the author'd lame brained antigun bias.
The most important thing you did was listen to your instincts, human beings in a modern setting tend to deny them, often to their detriment. Get the book "The Gift Of Fear" for a great discussion of this subject, just ignore the author'd lame brained antigun bias.
Of course, but it would be a mistake to assume that everyone responding has NOT been in similar situations-- and it would be a mistake to believe that all responders HAVE been in similar situations.
I have. And I think he did fine-- except for my morbid sense of curiousity as to what these guys were thinking.
-- John
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