I really want to carry revolver but.....
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repmurcs
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About the holster thing... I've got my tried and tru Crossbreed and various others. I'm looking for a cross the chest holster that doesn't look like it comes out of a Terminator or Dirty Harry movie. I'm an active type fellar (running, hiking, biking) and am trying to find a cordura "lift and separate" type holster, that fits tight to my body but doesn't stand out too badly. Any Suggestions --- GO ..
If you stick to Smith and Wesson revolver models, you can get a Magnatrigger which is a smart gun design that prevents anyone but the owner from firing it and it actually works. This is one improvement that I have not seen any semi autos master.
http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html
http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html
Zaydok Allen
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Tomrkba. Just google Nill grips. Mac Tek is the US importer. They have a variety of sizes. I'm sold. They fit me perfectly and the quality is great.
You pay for it though.
You pay for it though.
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el Godfather
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Sometimes all you need is the one rightly placed shot! In my case that all i might get the chance to do and if I am in a vehicle i go straight to Krink.
but wouldn't a 45 acp, 40 s&w, or 357 mag get the job done in those instances? Does the 460 or 454 make enough difference in that "sometimes" scenario, or would a traditional big bore caliber not make more sense?
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el Godfather
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^ you tell me. How more powerful 460 or 454 can be and their effect on the target upon impact.
ArchAngelCD
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IMO there is no good reason to use a 454 Casull or 460 Magnum on a man, even a very large man. Like mentioned above, followup shots are important in a self defense situation and trying to recover from such heavy recoil is difficult and takes too much time.
S&W makes a short barrel N frame M627 which holds 8 rounds of .357 Magnum. I would much rather carry 8 rounds of .357 than 5 rounds of 454 or .460 for self defense.
The snub nose M627 has a 2.6" barrel and weighs 37.6oz. The cylinder is cut for moon clips so reloading is very fast!
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...75655_757896_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
If you want something lighter they also sell the same gun but in an alloy so it weighs only 21.4oz and has a very short 2" barrel. It's the M327 and I really like that revolver but for the price!
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...75655_757896_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
Carrying a revolver that holds 8 rounds of .357 Magnum and a backup revolver that holds 5 or 6 rounds would be very good protection IMO.
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el Godfather
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^ again my question is, what if are in a situation where you get out ONLY shot?
bikerdoc
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El Godfather,
This is getting a little tedious and circular. Folks are giving you good advice (especially Tomrbka and archangel) which you refute or reject. Bottom line is only you know your security needs and only you are responsible for your choices and actions.
If you are in a vehicle and plan to go to Krink problem solved.
If you feel that you will only have one shot, use a 45, 9, 40 10mm, 357 whatever, just get good with it. If the 454 or 460 is your current desire, get good with it, although as others have stated it is not, and never will be, my first choice, for all the reasons stated.
Lastly focus on avoiding the gunfight. If you have concerns, vary your schedule and route. Use different vehicles. Get good finding the most vulnerable points in your daily routine.
Remember the the best gunfight is the one you avoid.
This is getting a little tedious and circular. Folks are giving you good advice (especially Tomrbka and archangel) which you refute or reject. Bottom line is only you know your security needs and only you are responsible for your choices and actions.
If you are in a vehicle and plan to go to Krink problem solved.
If you feel that you will only have one shot, use a 45, 9, 40 10mm, 357 whatever, just get good with it. If the 454 or 460 is your current desire, get good with it, although as others have stated it is not, and never will be, my first choice, for all the reasons stated.
Lastly focus on avoiding the gunfight. If you have concerns, vary your schedule and route. Use different vehicles. Get good finding the most vulnerable points in your daily routine.
Remember the the best gunfight is the one you avoid.
Lawdawg45
Member
I must agree with the moderator, you seem to have your choice made already. If you are a U.S. citizen abroad and are in that much danger, the proper authorities should be notified, and if you're there in an official capacity with enforcement powers then your choices are already made for you by our government. If you feel you need the penetration of a .460 or .500 then look at the .357 magnum. It was developed specifically for that for law enforcement and was successfully used for 50+ years. Reloads can be discretely carried in speed strips which fit perfectly in the watch pocket of any blue jean brand or can be carried in specific pouches.
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Sam1911
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I'll throw in my opinion here, and it mirrors Archangel's. Both the .460 and .454 are really interesting guns, very versatile in some ways, and worth owning.
However, they are not in any way suitable self-defense guns. Leaving out the issues of capacity and sheer bulk (both of which are serious concerns), the rounds you're firing are VERY heavy recoiling cartridges designed to put a heavy bullet deep into a very heavy game animal like a large bear or moose. The energy these guns are producing, and imparting to you the shooter, is greater than many rifle cartridges. In fact, even when chambered in a rifle, many shooters still find these to be uncomfortable to shoot.
How does that fit into a dynamic self-defense shooting situation? No one with any experience says they expect to need to fire and hit with only ONE shot in such situations. All our training and practice is centered around the idea of putting several shots on an attacker because a) you're very likely to MISS a fast-moving, aggressive target while trying to avoid being hit yourself, and b) if you do get a hit on him, it may or may not be placed close enough to important parts to stop him.
A stout .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 10 mm, or even 9mm load will plough through a human's torso and exit the other side pretty predictably. That's about as good a job as a handgun can do. Adequate penetration is ... adequate. More is of questionable help. Once the bullet has blasted out the other side of him, it's done all the good it can do. Adding a huge amount more velocity and bullet weight so the bullet will be driven even farther through the bad guy really isn't of much use.
When that questionable "benefit" comes with the costs of huge bulk, low capacity, and QUITE difficult-to-handle recoil (translating to slow follow-up shots and transitions to the next threat) it isn't a winning choice.
However, they are not in any way suitable self-defense guns. Leaving out the issues of capacity and sheer bulk (both of which are serious concerns), the rounds you're firing are VERY heavy recoiling cartridges designed to put a heavy bullet deep into a very heavy game animal like a large bear or moose. The energy these guns are producing, and imparting to you the shooter, is greater than many rifle cartridges. In fact, even when chambered in a rifle, many shooters still find these to be uncomfortable to shoot.
How does that fit into a dynamic self-defense shooting situation? No one with any experience says they expect to need to fire and hit with only ONE shot in such situations. All our training and practice is centered around the idea of putting several shots on an attacker because a) you're very likely to MISS a fast-moving, aggressive target while trying to avoid being hit yourself, and b) if you do get a hit on him, it may or may not be placed close enough to important parts to stop him.
A stout .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 10 mm, or even 9mm load will plough through a human's torso and exit the other side pretty predictably. That's about as good a job as a handgun can do. Adequate penetration is ... adequate. More is of questionable help. Once the bullet has blasted out the other side of him, it's done all the good it can do. Adding a huge amount more velocity and bullet weight so the bullet will be driven even farther through the bad guy really isn't of much use.
When that questionable "benefit" comes with the costs of huge bulk, low capacity, and QUITE difficult-to-handle recoil (translating to slow follow-up shots and transitions to the next threat) it isn't a winning choice.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Just as a practical example, here's a video of, arguably, the greatest living revolver shooter doing a 5-shot drill with the big .500 S&W. (Pretty identical to the .460 S&W as far as energy goes.)
He does get off 5 shots in under a second, eventually, and that's just awesome. But you can see what a chore it is (and take note of the placements of his three shots on his first attempt
) ... for someone who competes constantly and puts something like 80,000 rounds down range every year.
As ArchAngel said, if you really like a big revolver and don't mind some recoil and are concerned with self-defense against a small number of human attackers, an 8-shot .357 is VASTLY better than a 5-shot super magnum.
He does get off 5 shots in under a second, eventually, and that's just awesome. But you can see what a chore it is (and take note of the placements of his three shots on his first attempt
) ... for someone who competes constantly and puts something like 80,000 rounds down range every year.As ArchAngel said, if you really like a big revolver and don't mind some recoil and are concerned with self-defense against a small number of human attackers, an 8-shot .357 is VASTLY better than a 5-shot super magnum.
Zaydok Allen
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Sam hit it on the head with this. A revolver as powerfull as a 460 or 500 is meant for two things, accurate longe range shots with decent enough penetration to drop large, dense animals, and defense against dangerouse large animals, where you really need deep penetration. Either of these rounds are going to pass right through a human sized attacker and you are gaining nothing except the very real chance of hurting a bystander.
This is why I own multiple carry guns. I ALWAYS carry, but I sometimes pick a gun for different situations. In my day to day around the office, a simple snub nose .357 loaded with soft points and a reload in my jacket seems to be more than enough for anything i am LIKELY to encounter.
That said, if I'm going downtown, especially after dark, I carry a 1911 and a couple or reloads or a .40 with a spare mag. 5 shots should be enough, but 22 .45s or 28 .40s makes me feel a lot better.
However, most of the time, 10 rounds of .357 on my person feels adequate.
That said, if I'm going downtown, especially after dark, I carry a 1911 and a couple or reloads or a .40 with a spare mag. 5 shots should be enough, but 22 .45s or 28 .40s makes me feel a lot better.
However, most of the time, 10 rounds of .357 on my person feels adequate.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
What you're talking about are bear guns. Some consider they have a role in defense against attacking grizzlies.
But people? C'mon.
Firstly, have you priced AMMO for them? And even if you can afford thousands of rounds for practice, can your palms/wrists/elbows/shoulders stand the abuse of shooting those cannons as much as it takes to get good enough with them to actually consider using them in self defense? A big bore and massive muzzle blast will not make up for misses, you know.
Secondly, there are possibilities of overpenetration with these things. How many people behind the bad guy you centerpunch are you willing to ventilate with the same bullet?
What I'm getting at in a roundabout fashion here is that there are no hardware solutions to software problems. "The most powerful handgun on the planet" is not going to deliver frequent practice or fast followup shots, and those are IMHO major considerations for a defensive sidearm...
FWIW...
But people? C'mon.
Firstly, have you priced AMMO for them? And even if you can afford thousands of rounds for practice, can your palms/wrists/elbows/shoulders stand the abuse of shooting those cannons as much as it takes to get good enough with them to actually consider using them in self defense? A big bore and massive muzzle blast will not make up for misses, you know.
Secondly, there are possibilities of overpenetration with these things. How many people behind the bad guy you centerpunch are you willing to ventilate with the same bullet?
What I'm getting at in a roundabout fashion here is that there are no hardware solutions to software problems. "The most powerful handgun on the planet" is not going to deliver frequent practice or fast followup shots, and those are IMHO major considerations for a defensive sidearm...
FWIW...
Hire a professional - a bodyguard, a mercenary, a scriptwriter....
I think we're feeding a teenager's fantasy life.
Cocked & Locked
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what if you are in a situation where you need multiple shots?
We all play what ifs and odds. Carrying a 454 is not playing the odds wisely
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el Godfather
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When you are targeted its the first shot counts. Like I said if in a vehicle, no need to go to handgun.
CL your suggestion has weight. 357 is a potent round that can stop the target kill dead in first shot if hit right.
*sorry over penetration is least of my worries when and if I am in that situation. First priority is to stop the assailant in his feet COLD. I most likely wont get to the second shot chance.
CL your suggestion has weight. 357 is a potent round that can stop the target kill dead in first shot if hit right.
*sorry over penetration is least of my worries when and if I am in that situation. First priority is to stop the assailant in his feet COLD. I most likely wont get to the second shot chance.
Lawdawg45
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Sam1911
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Well, we've done what we can do. The choice is yours. May you never have to use it, whatever it is!
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