I was chased tonight

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Min....I would suggest a maglight, as stated above, but remember, you are in Texas where a club IS a deadly weapon, okay? If you use it as a club, you WILL most likely go to jail. Better use would be to just blind the guy with it. Few things will unerve a bad guy as being "lit up". Why do you think cops carry all those lights on their cars and person? Second, I suggest pepper foam. It is NOT considered a deadly weapon or even a LESS LETHAL. It has fewer ramifications than a punch. Only down side is that it takes about a second to react, if the guy is sweating maybe less, but the surprise should eat up that amount of time.

12.00 bucks....get some pepper foam. You are a heck of a lot more likely to use it than a spare mag for your gun, or even your gun for that matter. I suggest everyone, including myself get some. The worst I've seen happen to someone who sprayed mace was a night in jail, and that was because they sprayed in a bar that got a lot of people sick. Pepper foam works about 98% of the time, and when it doesn't, you can still run, fight, beat with a light, shoot, whatever.:D
 
Thanks for the tip, alduro.


Here's a lip from today's news.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2453396


March 17, 2004, 8:11AM

Highway shooting blamed for wreck
that sends three to hospital
By MIKE GLENN
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

A suspected freeway shooting caused a multi-car wreck late Tuesday that sent three people to the hospital, police said.

Someone in a Ford Taurus shot out the back window of a Honda sedan about 11:30 p.m. on the southbound West Loop at Interstate 10, the driver later told police.

The driver followed the vehicle along the highway in an attempt to note its license plate number. The Ford Taurus slammed into a Dodge Ram Charger as it crossed the West Loop over the Southwest Freeway, causing the vehicle to roll over. The pursuing Honda also hit the stricken sports utility vehicle, police said.

Two men and a woman in the Ford Taurus fled the scene on foot, abandoning their wrecked vehicle on the freeway. A woman driving the Ram Charger and two men in the Honda were taken to area hospitals. Police said their injuries did not appear to be life threatening.

The driver of the Honda told Houston police accident investigators he didn't recognize the gunmen or know why they apparently targeted his vehicle.

Police at the scene didn't find any bullets holes or evidence to indicate the Honda had been fired at. However, they said the vehicle would be given a more detailed examination as the investigation continues.


What I was trying to avoid...
 
A few years ago I had a simmilar thing happen to me.

My younger brother, my girlfriend, and I were on our way back to my mom's house from an afternoon at the public shooting range (!). We were in my brother's car, with all of the guns in the trunk. He was driving.

We were going around a sharp curve in the road when an oncoming car (traveling at around 60 mph) crossed over into our lane and ran us off the road. My brother (a more impulsive individual you will not find) bootlegged the car and took off after the offending motorist. I told him to stop the car and head for home, which he did.

In the brief moment it took to pull off the road and turn around, the car came screaming back in our direction. It passed us just as we were getting back on the road. This time I got a good look at the driver. He was a young, ratty looking fellow. We pulled back on the road and continued on our way home. When we got to the stop-sign to get onto the main highway (this is all in a rural area btw) he was stopped, in front of us. I wrote down the licences plate number (out of state), with intent to call the SD and report a reckless driver.

He pulled out onto the main highway (2 lane) headed in the same direction as us. We followed. He immediatly pulled off onto the shoulder and we passed him. AS soon as we passed, he screeched out behind us and started the old run up to the bumper back off run up Mad Max bit.

My brother decided to take evasive action. He quickly darted off the highway onto an off road. The guy was going too fast to follow immediatly, so he blew past us. We crept down the little off road and found a place to "hide" in case he came back. About 45 seconds later, he did. He drove past without noticing us. We waited a few minutes after he had passed and got back to the highway. WHEW! lost him. I called the SD and reported the guy.

5 or 6 miles down the road, we see him pulled off to the side of the road. We were going too fast to stop, so we blew on by. He squealed out behind us and the chase was on once again. This time I was worried. I was 20 (almost 21) at the time and did not have a CCW. I always carried a pistol in my glovebox in those days, but I was not in my truck, I was in my brother's car. The guns were all locked up in the trunk. This guy was obviously nuts.

We pulled the same song and dance once again, pulling off the highway and losing him, or so we thought. I called the SD again and told them the deal.

Back on the highway a few minutes later, our Situational Awareness at peak, I see the doofus's car about 200 yards behind us, closing quickly. We were nearing home by now and we had had about our fill of this Bas!@#$. I called my mother and let her know the situation. She said "Come on to the house, I will call the Sheriff." OK. By this time my brother was going about 90 mph and the guy was still gaining on us (150 yards by now). I told my girlfriend to head straight for the house when we got there. I told my brother to do the same. I planned to jump out of the car, run to my pickup and get the BHP out of the glovebox, and head for the house.

Our property was coming up on our left, about 1/4 mile distant. Then, a miracle happened. It started raining. It was one of those rare "the bottom dropped out" kind of storms (it had been cloudy all day). Doofus was still about 100 yds back, but I couldn't see him because of the heavy rain. We turned off and sped down our driveway, which looks like another off road. We all jumped out and did as planned. I grabbed my BHP out of the truck and headed for the house.

When I got inside, my brother was standing there loading his 870, my girlfriend was looking out the window, and my mom was standing near the doorway with the phone in her left hand (to her ear) and her .44 Special in her right. We were all waiting for the fool to come down our road.

About 30 minutes later ( :uhoh: :banghead: ) a Deputy Sheriff showed up. He took down our story and said buh-bye. We found out later that week that the moron had continued on down the highway going ~100 mph and crossed over into the next county. He was pulled over and ticketed. Nothing further was said or done to him.

In the post-game meeting, we decided that we did several things wrong. First was my brothers knee jerk reaction to the initial offense. Second, not having a loaded firearm within immediate reach. I tell you it is a bad feeling to have a trunk full of firepower just behind you and not being able to get to it should the need arise. We probably should not have gone home, but given that the driveway looks like a road, we had evaded twice before, and we had few other options left, this turned out to be ok.

The last thing we learned was that a cell phone is useful, but it will not protect you. The po-po can't either, if he/she is not right there when the offense occurs. Be Prepared.

Stay safe out there.
 
"The trigger was not set to fire. This is my usual mode with Glocks."

How do you "SET" your trigger? You mean your finger was not pulling it? or does it have "da switch"?
 
Once while working on contract in a new city in Texas several years ago I accidently pulled in front of this guy and cut him off. Being a careful driver and after looking over my shoulder to check he seemed to appear out of nowhere. To this day I'm not sure where he came from. All I can figure is that he must have pulled out of one of the many strip centers in the area. He waved in anger and I waved with a shrug with the look of "I'm sorry" as best I could. With a CHL permit I was not one to escalate these situations as we all know that is not wise.

Well this guy was upset and proceeded to tailgait me closer than any vehicle had been to me before or since. At the time I was driving a Pontiac Bonneville with the standard powerful 3.8 liter V-6 (about 180 horsepower). I had always been confident in its ability to get me away from trouble. Initially I tried to lose him in traffic, but his vehicle was a good match sizewise and speedwise with mine. The guy just didn't care that it was the lunch hour with lots of cars around us. This made me wonder if he was drunk or armed to have that kind of brazen attitude. Changing lanes, breaking, accelerating, etc. were all tried to no avail. He stayed right there!

I held up my mobile phone to telegraph to him that I was calling the police. He didn't care. I saw him laugh at me in my review mirror and shrug as if to say he didn't care. So I called them. Well it called 911 in the city I lived in at the time...not the one I was working in! So the lady at my home city's 911 told me to call that city's 911 service and refused to transfer the call for me even after I told her what was happening. Tossing the mobile phone onto the passenger's seat I thought about driving to the police station but I had no idea where it was located and didn't see any police cars in any of the restaurant parking lots around the area.

Then I noticed off to the left was a rather desolate area that they were doing a lot of construction. So I drove there with this guy hot on my rear bumper going about 55 miles per hour. Hoping he wouldn't rearend me, I started breaking sharply and swerved right around a corner while he chose to go left and stop. I stopped the car so hopefully he couldn't see my license plate.

I turned and we locked eyes...both of us still in our vehicles. Looking around cautiously I saw no one for a good 1 1/2 miles. Looking back at him, he seemed puzzled by me looking around, but his eyes got big as saucers when I removed my Ruger P-90 from its fanny pack, held it muzzle up, and racked the slide while looking at him the whole time. I never pointed it at him, in his general direction, or made any other gestures. Just vertically so he could admire it's massive sillouette.

He was suitably impressed. He raised both hands in a pseudo "I surrender and I'm sorry for being an SOB" gesture and drove off as fast as he could. As he drove off, I checked again and no one was around. So I returned the P-90 to its condition 3 status and put it back in the fanny back under my driver's seat and drove back to work.

The yo-yo was never heard from again.
 
What would have happened if I stopped and confronted him? I shudder at the thought. I was trying my best to avoid escalation, but if he kept pursuing me, the fifteen little hollow point bullets would find their way to his torso.
Min, don't you remember from CHL class? "Officer, I shot to stop the aggressive act." If 15rnds of 9mm HP don't drop him, it's time to buy a bigger caliber!:D And if less than 15 do stop him, it's bad news to keep on shooting! ;)
 
You did the right thing, Min. Good man. I know where you're coming from as I have had a few "close encounters" of my own. But...
I was trying my best to avoid escalation, but if he kept pursuing me, the fifteen little hollow point bullets would find their way to his torso.
make sure your reason to fire goes beyond the mere act of tail-gating.
 
I couldn't agree more, Heraclitus. Make sure it is more than tailgating before you shoot him.

Although I didn't say it in my original post , my mistake was not having a layered plan in place to deal with being pursued. By a layered plan I mean one that has a continuous, escalating string of options to deal with the situation. I had such a plan for just about everything else, but this one. You'll find your standard "street kit" bag of tricks and options do not work very well once you get vehicles involved.

Now I always do the following:
* Ensure I have more than 1/2 tank of gas at all times.
* Know where police stations are.
* Know where many police officers take breaks and eat dinner
* Maintain my P-90 in top condition.
* Added a 12 gauge pump shotgun in case its a car full and I have to ditch
* Traded the Pontiac Bonneville for a Pontiac Trans Am.

You'd be surprised how much the last one has effected the problem. People don't mess with folks in cars they know can catch them. Less known and less hyped is how wonderful it is to be able to get away from trouble in a hurry with such a car.

With the demise of the Trans Am and the Camaro, I would strongly suggest anyone interested in such an advantage, albiet in a less flashy package, try the Honda Accord with their V-TEC V-6 engine. It makes for a deceptively simple looking car with enough power to run with my Trans Am on the freeway!
 
First off, glad to hear you're ok!

My in-laws moved to Pearland (just outside Houston) last year. All I ever saw on the news there was crime stories. Great place:rolleyes: And oh boy, I get to go back in December. I can't wait. :uhoh:
 
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2460347


March 21, 2004, 4:36PM

Erratic driving leads to fatal shooting
By MIKE GLENN


Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

A man was shot to death early today after he confronted a man who cut him off in the parking lot of a southeast Houston nightclub, police said.

Julio Medrano, 27, was shot in the face and chest at about 2:30 a.m. at the El Rodeo Club in the 1100 block of Edgebrook. He was pronounced dead at Ben Taub General Hospital.

Medrano, of the 6400 block of Whitten, was about to drive a friend to his car when the gunman suddenly pulled in front of his vehicle. Witnesses said the assailant also cut off several other vehicles in the club parking lot.

Medrano and another friend also in the car got out and began arguing with the driver. Police said the man then drew a handgun and shot Medrano.

The suspect sped away and drove into the parking lot of a grocery store where he struck another car. Police said the suspect was last seen heading north along the Gulf Freeway service road.

The gunman was described as a man in his mid- to late 20s wearing a cowboy hat. He also had a mustache. A woman in her early to mid-20s also was in the vehicle -- a late-model black Chevrolet extended cab pickup truck with tinted windows. Police believe the truck's left front fender might be damaged.

Houston police believe several people were in the nightclub parking lot during the shooting but left before officers arrived. Anyone with information about the case is asked to contact the Houston Police Homicide Division at 713-308-3600 or Crime Stoppers at 713-222-TIPS.


Could have been me?
 
Alduro I dont think the comparison is valid. The difference between the cars your talking about and your average sedan is pretty drastic.

That's really not true, the difference between a police car and your grandmothers mercury grand marquis are minimal. The only difference is: (A)the police suspension makes the car ride 1" higher and is a good deal firmer. All the equipment weight that cops carry reduce the advantage a bit. (B)Duel exhaust and gears gives the cops about 15 more horses and a little acceleation edge, but you can order the mercury with a performance package that gives you all of that. (C)Tires, assuming that your grandmother doesn't put Goodyear Eagle's on her mercury. I find the eagles to be lax performers at best. (D)all the additional oil/radiator/power steering coolers that are optional on the civillian line (the towing package).

I drive a crown vic, and i've made sure that my car can get me out of trouble. Things i spend a lot of money on are tires, breaks, suspension and fluids. My tires are all V-rated for faster speeds than my car can attain and a slight bit wider and much stickier than the stock tires (NOT $40 sears tires). My breaks are NOT the $9.99 specials from autozone and a a good bit better than OEM. My current suspension setup is the same as the police cars and if i ever have the money, i'll get some billstein HD shocks. The fluids are all synthetic. There are barely any power modifications to my car as the standard V8 is plenty fast and eats more than enough fuel as it is. Not winning any drag races, but my car can hold its own.

I take my method of escape as seriously as my method of defence. You don't need a high performance vehicle either. My cars get a standard upgrade. Stickier tires, I prefer khumo as they are excellent tires and supprisingly inexpensive. Go pay $50 for you breaks instead of $15 it makes a world of difference in stopping power, which transalates to safety. Tougher shocks keep you on the road sacraficing very little in comfort...if you cared so much about comfort, you probably wouldn't be carrying a gun.
 
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The obvious use of the cell phone when being followed should get a sober person's attention.

I really don't understand an empty chamber, regardless of how you practice. I put some of my Glocks in my large safe and sold one other because I didn't feel comfortable with the gun being loaded and sitting besides my bed. I do feel perfectly comfortable with them in a holster and a round in the chamber. It seems to me that the less that you need to do and the faster that you can bring a gun to bear.. the better. If I were sure that I would always have the time to rack the slide, then I might also feel that I might always have time to escape. I prefer a gun where a chambered round is not a perceived safety issue. I would prefer a six round revolver to a fifteen round semi-auto without a chambered round. I worry more about the time to the first shot than shots seven to whatever.
 
Ontopic?
Get some Foxlabs OC grenade, put one inside his car and he won't follow you long! $30...available to civilians, they come in like 2-8oz sizes...I acutally used one on a guy who did a purse snatch at a local shopping mall, chased him and putout one of his windows and put a grenade. Perp drove off and LEOs caught up with him a few blocks away TC'd with a large trailer.

Offtopic?
Anyone know if they make a diesel p71 (crown vic)?

Heard about some fuel tank issues with a gasoline powered crownvic, enough to steer me away from them.

I drive a 2003 F350 dualcab diesel rightnow. Got some industrial pushbumpers instead of a regular bumper, the ones they use to push a citybus with, I'm experimenting with a rear pushbumper
 
That young Latino guy may not have realized how close he came to being shot this morning.

I don't think that the original poster mentioned the person's ethnicity.
 
Good on you. You did well. Remember the lessons learned for "next time".

Something similar happened to a fellow I was stationed with about six years ago (he got out a while back).

This guy was what you might impolitely term a "pretty boy", and a couple of local good ol' boys took a disliking to him for some reason or other one day(A little background- he was driving a Dodge Colt, not what is commonly termed a "man's car", and he was/is into stuff like Enya and Enigma.......... my buddy "Jeff" swore off the bottle years ago, and was a TN CCW holder; don't recall what he was carrying). Well, he pulled out of the gas station where this whole thing started and headed back home. The gool ol' boys followed him for a while, honking the horn and stuff. Finally pulled up aside him as they were going down the road and began yelling at him. "Jeff" pulled the pistol out of his glovebox and set it on the dash, and then held up his cell mouthing "911" at them. They backed off in a hurry and headed in the other direction. This was during the day, on a long weekend, apparently the good ol' boys were coming back from early- morning fishing or something, and were pretty loaded.

I think he did well, too.

ANM
 
Just a note about the pepper foam someone mentioned earlier. There is a possibility that the suspect can wipe the foam off and sling it back at you before it starts to take effect on him. Not likely, but something to consider. I prefer the regular spray for this reason.
 
Anyone know if they make a diesel p71 (crown vic)?

They make it in CNG, which doesn't make nearly as much power. Ford has a 4.5L V6 turbodiesel in the works for their F150's and i personally think it would be awesome in a crown vic, but i don't see it happening. The specs for the 4.5L Powerstroke are 235HP and 400TQ. It would get the heavy crown vics moving faster than their current V8's with the right gearing.

Heard about some fuel tank issues with a gasoline powered crownvic, enough to steer me away from them.

Complete media hype. If you look at the numbers, percentage wise, crown vics are less likely to burst into flames when hit from behind at high speed than most any other car. The reason you hear about it more often is because police cars tend to be parked on the side of the highway moreso than any other car. Ford tests the crown vic up to 50MPH in rear impacts, higher than the feds or insurance industry and they have no problems. The "explosions" all took place with impacts in excess of 70MPH, some up to 90MPH. It is unreasonable to expect anyone to make a car that can take that kind of impact for any price, needless to say $20K. Even the giant steel barriers designed to protect highway workers from speeding vehicles are only rated to 65MPH. My company was recently called to an accident where the police car had lost the entire engine compartment in a crash (It was literally sheared off). The cop was fine. I am absolutely convinced that these are some of the safest cars on the road for the price.

Unfortunately, this media hype has caused several police agencies to switch to the new FWD V6 Impala's, which are not acceptable cars for police work. In an impact, the entire front dash of the impala folds down to deploy the airbag. This has lead to severe injury from flying radars and laptops. Also, the FWD is far more fragile and they tend to bust CV joints hopping curbs. I know of several agencies who switched to impalas because of the "explosion" hype, then quickly switched back to crown vics.

Hopefully the new mopar entry, the dodge enforcer, slated for 2005, Will really set the standard. Maybe ford will be convinced to put a ballsier V8 option in their police cars to match the anticipated optional Hemi power the dodge will receive. Nice to see some RWD hemi's coming from dodge again.
 
Penforhire wrote:

I don't see anything wrong with his chosen carry mode. Just use what you train with. Plastic club-to-slug thrower in maybe 1.5 seconds? Sounds like your chosen holster makes more of a difference in time-to-battery.
The only time you should resort to using your firearm for a club is after you've run out of ammo.
 
There are times in weapon retention techniques where you strike the subject in the head/face area with the weapon.
 
clubsoda22, thanks for beating me to it. The exploding Crown Vic nonsense is almost as bad as the deliberately falsified exploding Chevy pickup business a few years ago.



Houston is a fun place. I got a knife flashed at me a few years back for committing the horrible offense of doing the speed limit in the right lane, and refusing to speed up.



Training in driving your way out of trouble is as much a necessity as proper firearms traininng, IMO.
 
Glad you're okay, and I think you did well.

You did well, and like others have posted, there are some things I would change. I have had similar things happen to me, and usually in pretty rural areas, so it's more in my own hands than if in the city / suburbs.

  • Get rid of the glock, get something you can be comfortable carrying in condition 1 or 2. Practice that way.
  • Know where police stations are and head there, if possible.
  • Know the terrain.

When I had a gun pulled on me, I was on a major highway (lots of trucks) and didn't have many options to move from the guy. I braked and almost got rear-ended, but the guy was pretty obvious in his maroon Jaguar with Gold convertible top. I called 911 as soon as I got to work and they had him pulled over before a cop got to my office to take my statement.

I'm glad we both made it through.
 
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