Ideal gun for working on land?
- Thread starter Norton
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lee n. field
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<snort!>
I've seen .45ACP shotshells. I have no idea if they work well or not. If they do, a Ruger P90 would fit your listed criteria pretty well.
Makes a big, satisfying BOOM.
Polishrifleman
Member
Long but hopefully helpful
Norton, I skipped most of the other posts but am in a similar situation. Last year my wife and I bought a large piece of property up in the mountains, 2 hours from our house. We live in suburban Seattle and I wanted something to let our boys loose on (not to mention myself)
. We are about 6 miles from the nearest year round home, no power, or water, just nature until you fire up the 5kw genset, or hydraulic wood splitter, and start working.
Bears won't bother us, I do worry about cats and the boys. We have cougars and bobcats in the area. Bobcats are more nocturnal than cougars although both are shy and if they have good food sources they won't go for human unless they are defending something. We have coyotes too but again fairly shy.
We are on the fringe range of the Western Rattlesnake but do have Rubber Boa's which are constrictors that only get to be a couple feet long and primarily live underground.
We are normally making so much noise I don't worry to much about anything 4 legged, but 2 legs is a little more interesting. Wide open space and a lot of noise leads to a very disadvantageous situation.
I pack a S&W 4506 on my hip and have a Model 94 in 30-30 close by the cabin. We have only had 2 visitors and they are curious or lost. The plan there is to meet them as far away from the cabin as possible be friendly and smile and have the wife get the kids in and have the 30-30 backing me up.
Norton, I skipped most of the other posts but am in a similar situation. Last year my wife and I bought a large piece of property up in the mountains, 2 hours from our house. We live in suburban Seattle and I wanted something to let our boys loose on (not to mention myself)
. We are about 6 miles from the nearest year round home, no power, or water, just nature until you fire up the 5kw genset, or hydraulic wood splitter, and start working.Bears won't bother us, I do worry about cats and the boys. We have cougars and bobcats in the area. Bobcats are more nocturnal than cougars although both are shy and if they have good food sources they won't go for human unless they are defending something. We have coyotes too but again fairly shy.
We are on the fringe range of the Western Rattlesnake but do have Rubber Boa's which are constrictors that only get to be a couple feet long and primarily live underground.
We are normally making so much noise I don't worry to much about anything 4 legged, but 2 legs is a little more interesting. Wide open space and a lot of noise leads to a very disadvantageous situation.
I pack a S&W 4506 on my hip and have a Model 94 in 30-30 close by the cabin. We have only had 2 visitors and they are curious or lost. The plan there is to meet them as far away from the cabin as possible be friendly and smile and have the wife get the kids in and have the 30-30 backing me up.
Sam
Member
Best thing for your application is a nice 4" medium frame 357.
K frame Smith or a ruger Security Six. Anything bigger is just a pain to tote and liable to be left behind. You can use any of a wide range of 38/357 loads to meet almost any possible application. Smaller lighter 357's are available but harder to shoot and to my thinking weak for heavy 357( anything smaller than an N frame Smith is too weak for really heavy 357's)
As for vermin, the 357 is more than adequate for 2 legged pests and all of the bear defense arguements are for practical purposes, hogwash.
Sam
K frame Smith or a ruger Security Six. Anything bigger is just a pain to tote and liable to be left behind. You can use any of a wide range of 38/357 loads to meet almost any possible application. Smaller lighter 357's are available but harder to shoot and to my thinking weak for heavy 357( anything smaller than an N frame Smith is too weak for really heavy 357's)
As for vermin, the 357 is more than adequate for 2 legged pests and all of the bear defense arguements are for practical purposes, hogwash.
Sam
CowboyEngr
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Let me get this straight
Do I understand this correctly? You're wanting a handgun to carry, while you work in somewhat remote country, to use as a tool to protect you from danger? Depending on what the perceived maximum realistic danger is, I'd carry the BEST firearm I owned that was adequate for that maximum danger. If it's people, at least a 357. If it's snakes, a 22 LR. If it's bears.....at least a 30 cal. rifle! I can't imagine betting my life on a firearm that wasn't the BEST I could afford. Leave all my S&W's and Colt's at home so they won't get scratched, then CARRY some 3rd. world cheapie to protect my life???? I don't think so! No offense intended, but a handgun that gets a few dings and the bluing worn off, as I carry it to guard my life, only gets more beautiful each day.
Do I understand this correctly? You're wanting a handgun to carry, while you work in somewhat remote country, to use as a tool to protect you from danger? Depending on what the perceived maximum realistic danger is, I'd carry the BEST firearm I owned that was adequate for that maximum danger. If it's people, at least a 357. If it's snakes, a 22 LR. If it's bears.....at least a 30 cal. rifle! I can't imagine betting my life on a firearm that wasn't the BEST I could afford. Leave all my S&W's and Colt's at home so they won't get scratched, then CARRY some 3rd. world cheapie to protect my life???? I don't think so! No offense intended, but a handgun that gets a few dings and the bluing worn off, as I carry it to guard my life, only gets more beautiful each day.
Polishrifleman -
Don't be so quick to right off the bobcats (or coyotes). We've had bobcats attack full grown adults around here in broad daylight when they were rabid. In fact, not too many years ago, we had a lady that would have probably been killed by bobcat if she didn't just happen to strap on her revolver that morning before she went for a walk. It's been a while, but I believe she actually shot it once or twice while it was chewing on her, and when the Sheriff came back several hours later it attacked him (fortunately he was in his truck). Best I recalled he finally put it down with a shotgun (and it wasn't easy).
After her recovery, she wrote a short book about it geared for third and fourth grade children. I had my son read because we're often out in the country, and like many boys, sometimes his confidence overshadows his wisdom. It was a truly sobering (scary) tale, but he does a whole lot better job of being careful and staying close.
If an animal actually gets grabs you (muzzle contact distance--a very likely occurrence), the revolver probably has the advantage over an autoloader.
The big cats can bear watching for (at least check for their sign)--particularly as they get older and slower or in a bad year.
Don't be so quick to right off the bobcats (or coyotes). We've had bobcats attack full grown adults around here in broad daylight when they were rabid. In fact, not too many years ago, we had a lady that would have probably been killed by bobcat if she didn't just happen to strap on her revolver that morning before she went for a walk. It's been a while, but I believe she actually shot it once or twice while it was chewing on her, and when the Sheriff came back several hours later it attacked him (fortunately he was in his truck). Best I recalled he finally put it down with a shotgun (and it wasn't easy).
After her recovery, she wrote a short book about it geared for third and fourth grade children. I had my son read because we're often out in the country, and like many boys, sometimes his confidence overshadows his wisdom. It was a truly sobering (scary) tale, but he does a whole lot better job of being careful and staying close.
If an animal actually gets grabs you (muzzle contact distance--a very likely occurrence), the revolver probably has the advantage over an autoloader.
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nitesite
Member
You and I think a lot alike on this subject. That's why I recommended in my previous post that all six chambers be one load type, with some shot shells in the right rear pocket. Snakes either bite before you know they are there, or give you time to skirt around them or reverse direction, except for the rare occasion that they just have to be shot.
Mixing loads is foolish.
I live in remote west central Illinois.
Most time I get along just fine with a .22 handgun or rifle, sometimes both.
Meth is getting to be a problem east of here, so far no trouble with it yet, of course we are all old farts and won'[t put up with that behavior in our area either.
If it comes to protacting myself and my land from meth cookers in my neck of the woods I will start carrying one of my AR15 rifles with me.
County cops are usually a long wait off.
Most time I get along just fine with a .22 handgun or rifle, sometimes both.
Meth is getting to be a problem east of here, so far no trouble with it yet, of course we are all old farts and won'[t put up with that behavior in our area either.
If it comes to protacting myself and my land from meth cookers in my neck of the woods I will start carrying one of my AR15 rifles with me.
County cops are usually a long wait off.
If I had land to do some work on that pretty much put me in the middle of nowhere here in Texas, I'd use a Marlin 1894C. But, If I limited myself to being able to only have a pistol, I'd use a .357 Smith or Ruger. If I was worried about bears and snakes why not get a gun that will do both. A Stoeger double barreled shotgun. Load it up with bird/buck shot for the snakes in one barrel and a 3in slug in the other barrel for the bears. Put a nice leather shell holder on the butstock and have a nice leather bandoleer on hand and load them both up with a mix of different types of bird/buck shot and slugs and you'll be all set.
Flip.
Flip.
Polishrifleman
Member
JC2, thanks for the input. I am definately not walking around at 1 or even 2 when at the cabin I did not mention that my boys are 2 and 4 (small enough to be carried away). Always as ready as I can be.
I think the info. is that a lot of animals get a bad rap much like us gun owners.
The advice I am trying to get across is get to know the threats in your area and their habits so you can be prepared and react appropriatley and that when in a remote enough setting and you are working ie: making noise most 4 legged animals will bug out and the 2 legged variety will come and see what is going on.
I think the info. is that a lot of animals get a bad rap much like us gun owners.
The advice I am trying to get across is get to know the threats in your area and their habits so you can be prepared and react appropriatley and that when in a remote enough setting and you are working ie: making noise most 4 legged animals will bug out and the 2 legged variety will come and see what is going on.Velocity229
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I'm surprised that many here are recommending 357 Mags for bear. Even the maximum 357 Mag hunting loads are insufficient for bear.
A charging bear might not give enough time for multiple rounds to be fired.
A used 44 magnum (6 1/2 in. bbl) should be good for your case. Loaded with maximum hunting loads.
A charging bear might not give enough time for multiple rounds to be fired.
A used 44 magnum (6 1/2 in. bbl) should be good for your case. Loaded with maximum hunting loads.
W Turner
Member
Velocity - I think the only reason are looking at the .357 as a good sidearm even though bears are a possibility is because the main concern is black bears. They are a bear, but they are not in the Grizzly/Brown/Polar Bear class and are not as massive.
Don't get me wrong, if I KNEW I was going to encounter a Black Bear, I would be packing a .30+ caliber repeating rifle of one flavor or another in addition to a large-bore revolver. This is probably not practical in this case though.
Although adding a .30-30 or SKS to the mix in your truck or on an ATV wouldn't be a bad idea.
W
Don't get me wrong, if I KNEW I was going to encounter a Black Bear, I would be packing a .30+ caliber repeating rifle of one flavor or another in addition to a large-bore revolver. This is probably not practical in this case though.
Although adding a .30-30 or SKS to the mix in your truck or on an ATV wouldn't be a bad idea.
W
studebaker
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No one gun handles it very well, but 2 do.
A small, lw .22, like the Smith 2213, and some sort of lw, compact centerfire, like the Star PD .45. $300 used, adjustable sights, very accurate, 25 ozs, 7.5" long. The 2213 is 18 ozs, 6" long. The pair total 43 ozs, about what a single large, steel framed gun does. Why make the noise or spend the money of a centerfire on a snake, frog, bird? Why not have some real power available if you need it?
A small, lw .22, like the Smith 2213, and some sort of lw, compact centerfire, like the Star PD .45. $300 used, adjustable sights, very accurate, 25 ozs, 7.5" long. The 2213 is 18 ozs, 6" long. The pair total 43 ozs, about what a single large, steel framed gun does. Why make the noise or spend the money of a centerfire on a snake, frog, bird? Why not have some real power available if you need it?
trickyasafox
Member
i think a 3 or 4 in 357 fits your ticket perfectly good up to black bear, can get shot shells for it (no idea if they work worth a spit) and pretty great all around.
TimboKhan
Member
Just my opinion, but if I were out working the high lonesome, I would pack nothing but a revolver. Nothing against autos, but in that type of environment, subjected to that kind of abuse, I would just rather go with a revo. Now, your choices for revo/caliber/barrel length and what not are legion, but if it were me, I would go with a Ruger Blackhawk in either .357mag or .30 Springfield. Barrel length would depend on the situation, and ideally I would like to have those in stainless (which, to the best of my knowledge, they are not currently made in). If you don't think that your gonna need something that big, then go with a single-six in stainless and your money.
Timbo
Timbo
Skipper
Member
NORTON,
My choice for exactly that same purpose is my Ruger SP101 w/ 3'' barrel.
I gave my 2 1/4" away just to get the longer barrel and could not be happier.
Tough as an anvil and versatile in the extreme. Your mileage may vary.
SKIP
My choice for exactly that same purpose is my Ruger SP101 w/ 3'' barrel.
I gave my 2 1/4" away just to get the longer barrel and could not be happier.
Tough as an anvil and versatile in the extreme. Your mileage may vary.
SKIP
studebaker
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How is carrying a holstered gun "abuse:"?
Autoloaders stand up to REAL abuse MUCH better than revolvers, which is why every military in the world uses the autopistol, not the revolver. Drop a revolver or otherwise strike it, and the cylinder probably wont turn, or wont line up with the barrel anymore. The revolver has lots of openings for dust and precipitation and sweat to enter, and do real harm. I've dropped a revolver in a granary full of soybeans as a kid, and into limestone dust. Both occasions locked the gun up so solidly that I couldn't rotate the cylinder, even with my weak hand trying to "help" the cylinder turn. Sand, or mud can do the same thing.
Autoloaders stand up to REAL abuse MUCH better than revolvers, which is why every military in the world uses the autopistol, not the revolver. Drop a revolver or otherwise strike it, and the cylinder probably wont turn, or wont line up with the barrel anymore. The revolver has lots of openings for dust and precipitation and sweat to enter, and do real harm. I've dropped a revolver in a granary full of soybeans as a kid, and into limestone dust. Both occasions locked the gun up so solidly that I couldn't rotate the cylinder, even with my weak hand trying to "help" the cylinder turn. Sand, or mud can do the same thing.
to norton,et al
very good question,you raise.we run cattle and do some crops.e live and work on our place.we're getting up there ,though.i have always carried a single sis. .22 mag as the most common threat has been snakes,especilly during the migration periods.keep in truck or tractor.reach over and grab it and shove in pants belt.then,a few years back,our sherrif's dept lost two murderes and a rapist in a rather simple minded escape.various reports(usally wrong )had them moving in various directions.days went by and nothing.i really didn't give more thought until a beat up ol black truck wandered on to our place.stoped at various places,like looking around and started up towards the house.i hot dogged it over there and stopped them with my little .22 in hand and my wife runing for the shotgun.windows were blacked but could see a couple guys.finally the driver opend the door and out stepped our idiot ins agent!!!!!! i was so angry i was afraid to move .when he saw the wife with the big gun he turned white.turns out he was breakeng in a new agent and showing him around.he had claimed to have grown upon a ranch.but as i learned he was nothig but a city slicker.you just don't go wandering around a place ,even if the gates is open.! shorten the story-i fired him on the spot and called the home office to have them send a replacement.caused me to reevalutate what i carried.swithced to a s&w 637 so it could always be in my pocket(have gone through a number of pocket holsters(amazed haw hard daily carry is on holsters)now i have the very excellent mod 60 5" in .357 and a couple holsters-cross draw(great on tractor and truck) and a shoulder holster for cool weather and hunting got a new one coming as i adapeted my old 637 one.couple points ,in what is avery long post(sorry)i should have not just fixed on the most apparent threat but sat back and looked at all of them.yes ,i know many will say get a bigger gun,etc.there is,however< a limit to what you can carry day in day out on a practical basis.if i carried a long gun i'd be cleaning it constantly.and what do i do when i hike back to the house?carry the piece back and forth.no,the .357 is perfect.i did however,take to carrying my cell phone religously.i figure between those,i'm well covered.oh,i carry a couple shot shell and then the rest in .357.tough to do with a semi auto best regards
very good question,you raise.we run cattle and do some crops.e live and work on our place.we're getting up there ,though.i have always carried a single sis. .22 mag as the most common threat has been snakes,especilly during the migration periods.keep in truck or tractor.reach over and grab it and shove in pants belt.then,a few years back,our sherrif's dept lost two murderes and a rapist in a rather simple minded escape.various reports(usally wrong )had them moving in various directions.days went by and nothing.i really didn't give more thought until a beat up ol black truck wandered on to our place.stoped at various places,like looking around and started up towards the house.i hot dogged it over there and stopped them with my little .22 in hand and my wife runing for the shotgun.windows were blacked but could see a couple guys.finally the driver opend the door and out stepped our idiot ins agent!!!!!! i was so angry i was afraid to move .when he saw the wife with the big gun he turned white.turns out he was breakeng in a new agent and showing him around.he had claimed to have grown upon a ranch.but as i learned he was nothig but a city slicker.you just don't go wandering around a place ,even if the gates is open.! shorten the story-i fired him on the spot and called the home office to have them send a replacement.caused me to reevalutate what i carried.swithced to a s&w 637 so it could always be in my pocket(have gone through a number of pocket holsters(amazed haw hard daily carry is on holsters)now i have the very excellent mod 60 5" in .357 and a couple holsters-cross draw(great on tractor and truck) and a shoulder holster for cool weather and hunting got a new one coming as i adapeted my old 637 one.couple points ,in what is avery long post(sorry)i should have not just fixed on the most apparent threat but sat back and looked at all of them.yes ,i know many will say get a bigger gun,etc.there is,however< a limit to what you can carry day in day out on a practical basis.if i carried a long gun i'd be cleaning it constantly.and what do i do when i hike back to the house?carry the piece back and forth.no,the .357 is perfect.i did however,take to carrying my cell phone religously.i figure between those,i'm well covered.oh,i carry a couple shot shell and then the rest in .357.tough to do with a semi auto best regards
I went over to the local indoor range to day for a little handgun practice and decided to rent some .357s to see how they compared. Since you have to use their ammo, I only ended up getting a box of 50 rounds.
I tried:
SW 686 4" barrel
Ruger GP100 4" barrel
SW 686+ (7 round) 6" barrel
All three were pretty dirty since they are rentals, but all shot very well.
I did 2 cylinders of single action and 1 of double action in both of the 4 inch models. I did one cylinder each of single and double action in the 6" model.
The Ruger felt great in my hand until I tried to get to the trigger....then it felt cramped compared to the SWs. The SWs were pretty smooth in double action.
The 6" model was a delight to shoot with a noticeable reduction in perceived recoil compared to both of the 4" models. In a perfect world, the 6" would be my choice for a "ranch pistol" but it's far to heavy and cumbersome.
Looks like I'll try for the 686+ in a 4" barrel.
I tried:
SW 686 4" barrel
Ruger GP100 4" barrel
SW 686+ (7 round) 6" barrel
All three were pretty dirty since they are rentals, but all shot very well.
I did 2 cylinders of single action and 1 of double action in both of the 4 inch models. I did one cylinder each of single and double action in the 6" model.
The Ruger felt great in my hand until I tried to get to the trigger....then it felt cramped compared to the SWs. The SWs were pretty smooth in double action.
The 6" model was a delight to shoot with a noticeable reduction in perceived recoil compared to both of the 4" models. In a perfect world, the 6" would be my choice for a "ranch pistol" but it's far to heavy and cumbersome.
Looks like I'll try for the 686+ in a 4" barrel.
TimboKhan
Member
uh... Are you out of your mind? First off, reliability is but one of the things that the military demands from its pistols, but they also use autos because they are faster to reload, easier to carry ammo for, and have a higher capacity. Autos have more moving parts, and, as any engineer will tell you, more moving parts = more chances for failure. Additionally, not only do you have a higher chance of failure with the gun itself, you have the added danger of magazine failure. Now, am I saying autos are crappy? Absolutly not! I own several, and even carry one occasionally, and most of us know about the torture tests that many of these autos have passed, some of which, sure enough, a revolver wouldn't have passed.
Look man, I have no doubt you locked your Revo up by doing this (although I am not sure how) but do you honestly think that soybeans, limestone dust, sand and mud won't lock up an auto too?
For the purposes that this guy has, he doesn't need the faster reload, and he has a wider variety of calibers to choose from, if he so wants. Weight is a consideration if your riding all day, and a revo with 6 rounds is lighter than many autos with a full load, especially those that are high cap (Depending, of course on the gun that you choose. A stainless 6 inch revolver in .44 mag probably is heavier than a glock in 9mm, but you can always go lighter with revolvers, especially iif you get into the titanium and scandium guns) Additionally, since he is outdoors, he doesn't have to worry about accidentally bumping a mag release and losing a mag. If he goes with a single action revo, thats even less to worry about (which is why the overwhelming majority of us that recommended revolvers recommended single actions). Finally, if he really needs to get a shot off, and fails, all he has to do is cock and there is a new round, which is much faster than having to rack the slide back. Faster yet if he happens to have a double action revolver.
I honestly believe that a Revo is the perfect tool for this job, but as I mentioned earlier, I own and carry several autos. Of those, my favorite is a Ruger P90, and it has been perfectly reliable. I actually have carried this pistol on backpacking trips and even once in a great while as my CCW pistol, and I had all the confidence in the world in it (my main carry gun is a "snubby" .357 revo). There is nothing wrong with autos, and I wouldn't ever say otherwise. Its just that there are options, and in this case, the revo is the better option, in my opinion.
Timbo
Cosmoline
Member
I worked a semi-remote parcel up near Willow for the past few years. I'm back in civilzation now, but I learned a lot. One thing I learned was how impractical carrying a big boomer handgun around all day is. I ended up using a series of 4" to 6" .357 Magnums. The rifle that got by FAR the most use was my CZ 452 Lux .22LR, which took a ton of small game. No. 2 was the Mossberg 500, which took some game but also saw service in cutting out snags with slugs. The handgun I kept strictly for defensive purposes in case I needed to cover myself while getting to a long gun. A .357 loaded with hardcast 200 grainers was ideal, since it was easy to tote and quick in the hand.
Where did you get that idea? A hardcast 180 or 200 grain slug has more than enough power and a high enough SD to penetrate a bear's head Even an arrow can go right through a bear. Whether you're using a .357 or a Casull, your only hope against the business end of a bear with a handgun is to break a shoulder or hit the CNS. In this respect, a lack of flinching and much faster followup shots win out over raw ft. lbs., at least in my book.
Of course, as with any kind of self defense, the handgun is merely defensive. I practiced drills firing six fast aimed shots while running back to the rifle.
LOL I'm wondering what revolver you've been using You got a real lemon, whatever it was. Not only have I dropped my Rugers, I've run one over once when it was sitting in the driveway. I've left them out in the rain, and while I never used them as hammers one of them had a bunch of pings on the frame from where someone had.
Heck, even the Police Positive Special and OP I had out there did just fine. I wouldn't want to run over a vintage Colt, but the PPS in particular saw some rough abuse and did just fine.
Where did you get that idea? A hardcast 180 or 200 grain slug has more than enough power and a high enough SD to penetrate a bear's head Even an arrow can go right through a bear. Whether you're using a .357 or a Casull, your only hope against the business end of a bear with a handgun is to break a shoulder or hit the CNS. In this respect, a lack of flinching and much faster followup shots win out over raw ft. lbs., at least in my book.
Of course, as with any kind of self defense, the handgun is merely defensive. I practiced drills firing six fast aimed shots while running back to the rifle.
LOL I'm wondering what revolver you've been using
You got a real lemon, whatever it was. Not only have I dropped my Rugers, I've run one over once when it was sitting in the driveway. I've left them out in the rain, and while I never used them as hammers one of them had a bunch of pings on the frame from where someone had.Heck, even the Police Positive Special and OP I had out there did just fine. I wouldn't want to run over a vintage Colt, but the PPS in particular saw some rough abuse and did just fine.
I've carried a Smith 4" 29 or a Ruger SA 44 or 45 Colt 4 5/8" quite a lot in the past 25 years, and don't find the size or weight to be an issue with a good quality strong side high ride (Threepersons type) holster. Either cal will do fine for protection from varmints of any type.
" I'll tell you how.
the dust gets between the cylinder face and the rear of the barrel. It gets in the lockwork, thru the cracks around trigger and hammer. It gets into the cylinder bolt cuts, around the cylinder bolt. It gets into the slot for the cylinder hand."
Sounds good in theory, but I've carried DA Smith and SA Ruger and Colts for most of the last 25 years, lived out in the hills, sleeping on the ground for litterally months at a time, carrying daily, and occaisionally going up to a year or so between cleanings a couple times, and NEVER EVER had a revolver fail for the reasons mentioned, or any other reason. The dust in arizona andWyoming is simply remarkable in it's ability to get into everything, even in a house, let alone out in the hills. Some of this time in the hills was living off the back of a motorcycle.
"Depending upon the auto, no, such dust will NOT get where it can do anything harmful to the reliability. The Glock for instance, has no holes or cracks in its rear end, so that excludes a helluva lot of debris from its action. It has no locking lugs on the barrel, so no tight little cracks for dust or sand to lock it up."
I guess it does depend on the auto, I carried several Colt 1911's off and on, and had all of them fail to function at some point. I kept them cleaner than the revolvers. Some folks have trouble with Glocks choking for no apparant reason. No gun is perfect, or totally reliable. Some just are more than others, but no guarantee.
"You are QUITE full of it if you "think" a revolver's barrel, cylinder pin, or cylinder hand can't be SERIOUSLY bent by a fall to the pavement. I ruined a M60 Smith stainless snub with such a fall. I Know of a case where an Ill state cop smacked a bank robber over the back of the head with a Cobra, and had his cylinder lock up. I can take any K frame or J frame, open the cylinder, and bend the crane so BADLY, with just my bare hands, that you can't get the cylinder back into the frame without a hammer to beat on it with."
I've dropped several of my Smiths a number of times, including having my 29 slip out of the front of my pants and cartwheel down and bouce off the steel channel iron of my rear bumper. The only things I've ever damaged was the rear sight blade.
I'm sure you may be able to twist the yoke of a Smith revolver, but I hardly ever grab the cylinder and twist mine, so don't have that problem of damaging it like you do. I don't doubt that one could bend an alooy frame gun like a Cobra also from rough use. Bill Jordan awas reportetly in the habit of cracking bad guys on the head with a pistol, and specified a shrouded ejector rod on the Smith model 19 for that reason. I hadn't heard it was a one use gun for that purpose. Maybe some guns are up to it and some arent.
Before telling someone they are "full of it" you should consider your own words carfully, as you may be called on your comments as well, tho perhaps by someone more polite than you are.
the dust gets between the cylinder face and the rear of the barrel. It gets in the lockwork, thru the cracks around trigger and hammer. It gets into the cylinder bolt cuts, around the cylinder bolt. It gets into the slot for the cylinder hand."
Sounds good in theory, but I've carried DA Smith and SA Ruger and Colts for most of the last 25 years, lived out in the hills, sleeping on the ground for litterally months at a time, carrying daily, and occaisionally going up to a year or so between cleanings a couple times, and NEVER EVER had a revolver fail for the reasons mentioned, or any other reason. The dust in arizona andWyoming is simply remarkable in it's ability to get into everything, even in a house, let alone out in the hills. Some of this time in the hills was living off the back of a motorcycle.
"Depending upon the auto, no, such dust will NOT get where it can do anything harmful to the reliability. The Glock for instance, has no holes or cracks in its rear end, so that excludes a helluva lot of debris from its action. It has no locking lugs on the barrel, so no tight little cracks for dust or sand to lock it up."
I guess it does depend on the auto, I carried several Colt 1911's off and on, and had all of them fail to function at some point. I kept them cleaner than the revolvers. Some folks have trouble with Glocks choking for no apparant reason. No gun is perfect, or totally reliable. Some just are more than others, but no guarantee.
"You are QUITE full of it if you "think" a revolver's barrel, cylinder pin, or cylinder hand can't be SERIOUSLY bent by a fall to the pavement. I ruined a M60 Smith stainless snub with such a fall. I Know of a case where an Ill state cop smacked a bank robber over the back of the head with a Cobra, and had his cylinder lock up. I can take any K frame or J frame, open the cylinder, and bend the crane so BADLY, with just my bare hands, that you can't get the cylinder back into the frame without a hammer to beat on it with."
I've dropped several of my Smiths a number of times, including having my 29 slip out of the front of my pants and cartwheel down and bouce off the steel channel iron of my rear bumper. The only things I've ever damaged was the rear sight blade.
I'm sure you may be able to twist the yoke of a Smith revolver, but I hardly ever grab the cylinder and twist mine, so don't have that problem of damaging it like you do. I don't doubt that one could bend an alooy frame gun like a Cobra also from rough use. Bill Jordan awas reportetly in the habit of cracking bad guys on the head with a pistol, and specified a shrouded ejector rod on the Smith model 19 for that reason. I hadn't heard it was a one use gun for that purpose. Maybe some guns are up to it and some arent.
Before telling someone they are "full of it" you should consider your own words carfully, as you may be called on your comments as well, tho perhaps by someone more polite than you are.
I sort had to laugh when I read the following statement, "The Glock for instance, has no holes or cracks in its rear end, so that excludes a helluva lot of debris from its action." I wonder if he has ever seen a Glock. You can see daylight between the slide and frame, and it has two large holes in the grip.
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