My new deep woods pack gun experience...

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Easier to pack, sure, but those big pistols are hard to carry comfortably with easy access, at least in my experience of long hikes.

As for the OP; great choice. I hate whittling my backpacking weight down by chopping off the end of my toothbrush just to lose any weight savings to a heavy gun.
 
RoostRider, I feel that for your applications you weighed the pros and cons and made a sensible purchase in the end. I too spend lots of time in the woods either hunting or just bumming about. A lot of the territory I frequent also has Black Bears however my 2 most carried sidearms is either my 4" S&W M10 or M60. When In the woods I've found that a good cast SWC does well for most applications. But I also carry a speed loader with 5.3gr of Unique under the same bullet when a little more oomph may be needed.

As has ben noted already the BB 150gr wadcutted would be hard to beat as well. This can be closey duplicated with a 148gr DEWC ( not a hollow based wadcutter) with the max charge of unique as listed in both the Speer #12 & #13 manuals. As I type this I have some of the afore mentioned wadcutter loads ready for range testing. Good luck to you and I hope that your purchase gives you lots of back country service.
 
great minds think alike...

RoostRider, it sounds like we've come up with similar conclusions to what makes a good woods gun. I grew up in SE Alaska and now live in Washington. I think it's fun to disappear into the woods for a week at a time to do some hiking, paddling, scrambling, and maybe some foraging.

I've never had a bear encounter. I've run into two packs of wild dogs. I've been shot at by drunks once that I know of. I've gone from occasionally packing a rifle, to sometimes carrying a k-frame .357, to often carrying a 2" SP101. Even after all that downsizing, it felt like I was carrying a deadweight brick that would get caught on brush, and it still felt like I was packing too much gun given the history of what dangers I've come across.

About a month ago I handled a Smith model 642 for the first time and paid for a brand new one on the spot. I'm going to pick up a roto-paddle holster so I can switch between carrying it on my pack hipbelt and my pants. My plan is to handload some 140-160 gr hardcasts in +p and enjoy hiking with my new gun. :D

Best of luck!
 
I dunno........."rabid redneck" just seems to capture the image pretty well.......and it's fun to say!
 
DBR- thanks for the additional info on that round....

That holster/bag looks like a winner, even for some concealed carry applications.... being a contractor, I just can't accept even the remote possibility that a client might see me with a gun on site (better to just not have that discussion than to potentially loose jobs over ideological differences).... at the same time, I do work in some pretty shady neighborhoods and I don't feel too safe with the gun in the truck out front...

I have been battling this issue for a while now and haven't found anything that looks like a piece of professional gear that can hold my gun.... my briefcase is a no go, since I often need to access it on site... in the waist isn't worth the risk of a client seeing it...

It looks like that thing would strap right onto my tool belt, or sit in my breifcase, without anyone ever being the wiser....
 
It's been an interesting read on this thread. And having done a few multi day canoe trips with buddy's in Algonquin park in Ontario I can attest to the need to shave those oz from the load.

For three years in a row we did these 4 or 5 day trips. On one of those the fourth dropped out and left me high and dry. Instead of giving up I rented a river runner kayak and went anyway. Turned out that other than having to pack all my own gear the kayak was better on the one day of choppy water than the other two in the canoe were. I felt like a little U-boat on the North Atlantic as it puched through the waves but stayed level while the other two were pitching to and froe... :D

Anyhow enough reminiscing. I don't have any personal experience on rounds for you BUT there was a good article on penetration and wound channel for full wadcutters that I ran across a few months back. Just don't ask me where to find it. Bottom line was that the full wadcutter pentrates well thanks to not mushrooming much but the blunt end tends to set up a shock wave ahead of it and it forms a damage channel that is much bigger than the bullet. Not as good as an magnum driven HP but much better than a round or SWC nosed bullet. And since there's debate on the reliable expansion for HP's driven by Spl or +P charges a full wadcutter may prove to be a good compromise. So a heavy 148gn full wadcutter with a +P charge behind it would appear to make a lot of sense.

Time to get or load up some ammo and try it out on a turkey carcase? I'd be willing to help you destroy the remains through careful exposure to heat and burying in gravy..... :D
 
I carry a Glock 23 with an extra mag from the 22. I've encountered many bears and am more worried about 2 legged critters. The only problem is my Glock 23 weighs more than my tent, more than my sleeping bag and backpack combined. 1 week of gear is only 25 pounds for me, total. It seriously stinks carrying 2 pounds of dead weight.

In all the backpacking I've done people are still the only scary thing I've seen in the woods.

Most bears are like big, incredibly intelligent dogs. I've had black bears walk right through my camp at night. I was too tired to shoo them away. I've had one that was getting a little too used to people "fake charge me". Just stand your ground. We had to have a ranger trap and relocate that one. I don't see them as a real threat.

They will actually open your cooler at night, eat, and close up the cooler so it looks like they were never there. Even had them stick thier nose into an occupied tent like a curious giant racoon.

Bears, aligators, mountain lions (might have been a cougar, it was night), rattlesnakes, cottonmouths, scorpions, are all overrated. never had trouble with them. Shoot, you can step right over rattlesnakes. I was terrified of these at first, just like any sane person in the woods by themselfs, that wears off. People on the otherhand.........

Anyway, if you have to shoot a bear....your basically screwed. Even with a 12 gauge slug or an ar15, you can't be sure of stopping the bears attack well enough to save yourself. Guess we have to try still, but .38 vs .357 is hardly going to make much of a difference. Either God is on your side and you get a lucky shot in, or your toast.

Keep in mind most hunters that have shot bears killed them while they were snacking on berries at a distance. Not when they were hell bent on tearing up some hikers to save their young (Griz). I'm not convinced that a .357 will stop an agressive bear reliably. I'm not convinced anything will. If a deer can run half a mile with its heart blown to bits, I don't want to see what a bear thats within 50 feet can do.
 
I think a 38 is a good choice. You make choices everyday and weigh the outcomes. What is the worst thing you'll encounter? Hungry wolves, bear; some creep with ill intentions. I'm pretty sure that a pack of wolves will scatter at the first loud report of gunfire. You can't protect yourself from a man with a rifle, so why worry about that? Most United States animals, including pack animals don't have the stomach for gunfire. I would caution differently if you were near Yellowstone or Estes Park. But you're in wolf country. Just stay away from the rabid ones. And don't try to ride a moose.

I hope you enjoy/enjoyed your trip.
 
Woohoo, well, next time I'm in Big Bend, well, after February, I can carry concealed thanks to a rider on the credit card bill Hussein signed today. :D I reckon out there, having a .357 concealed in a fanny pack would give me better long range capability on drug runners if I got in a bind. Of course, I'd still be putting a 4" revolver against, probably, AKs, but heck, it beats a .38 and it has to be concealed, can't carry open.

I load 5.0 grains Unique behind a very wide nosed 158 Lee cast tumble lube design SWC. It clocks 220 ft lbs (I'd have to look up the velocity, the energy sticks in my head) which should put it slightly into the +P range, but very mild +P if so. I think that bullet will do anything that needs gettin' done.

The thing about the nose stretch of the wound cavity is spot on, too. I've seen this in deer with the gas checked version of the above SWC. Neat little 3" path of tissue distruction and complete penetration through the lungs. Now, that bullet was fired from a 6.5' .357 magnum, but it just shows that big flat nose SWC was working as advertised. :D That deer went about 20 yards with a BIG blood trail and piled up. If I ever had to shoot at a bear with a .38, I'd be shooting for the head, tough.

I put a different front sight on my .38 Taurus, had a dove tail milled for it. Look closely at the pick on post number 34 and you'll see it. Set me back about 80 bucks, but I like black sights better than shiny ones and I wanted the wire. Now, it was a smith out of Florida that did it. I can't remember the name or number, so no need asking, sorry. The sight has an elevation wire as used by Elmer Keith. We used to shoot at a 14" gong made from a 12" slip blind (you oil field and chemical plant workers know what it is) and I could ring it just about any day 3 out of 5 from 100 yards using that elevation wire to help in the hold over Elmer Keith style. .38 snubs can be very effective for the man that knows what he's doing with one. Takes practice.
 
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Well, if you're gonna want to pack a pistol,

The High Noon Undertaker shoulder rig fits beautifully

Under the Gregory GForce mid-sized pack, which,

If I pack it just right will give me 8 days on the trail

@ just over 33 lbs. (3 season use; winter is different).

Both the holster and the 2 spare clip pouches fall naturally forward/inboard

- just right - of the shoulder straps and don't interfere

With normal backpacking, bushwhacking functions.

It is just as if you were in normal CCW mode;

Draw and aimpoint time are probably slowed just a hair

By the constriction of the pack's weight and shoulder straps.

And, obviously you are loading your torso and not your hips, which is good.

Another plus is that when you dump your pack for lunch or to set camp or

Whatever, the pistol stays with you.

A final freebie, the rig fits just as well under my chestwaders

When out fishing.

The weapon?

CZ P01 in 9mm, 14 round magazines.

A remarkably light, reliable and accurate semiauto.

And its polyester finish could care about weather.

Form follows function.

isher
 
at this point, based on what I have in the collection, I would choose my Uberti Cattleman (1873 SAA clone) w/ 5 rounds of Remington 225gr lead semiwadcutters (pointy firing pin mounted on hammer means an empty chamber underneath the resting hammer) in my Uncle Mike's Sidekick nylon/codura hip holster; extra ammo is carried in an Uncle Mike's nylon/codura pistol cartridge holder with 2 rounds of CCI snakeshot and 10 Remington lead semiwadcutters;

if I had money to spare I would opt for a Ruger SP101 in .357 mag w/ 3 1/16" barrel loaded with 5 rounds of .357 mag 158gr hard cast lead semiwadcutters or Federal CastCore 180gr hard cast leadheads; same type holster; same type extra ammo setup, but using CCI .38 spl snakeshot and matching .357 mag leadhead ammo
 
If I were to carry a minimum woods gun I think I would chose the Ruger SP101 3 1/16" 357 mag revolver and use Buffalo Bore 180gr FP hardcast ammo. That is after I made sure I could handle that combo effectively.

That gun with a XS Big Dot front sight in a Wilderness SafePacker would be hard to beat within its limits.

If I were to carry it for self defense I would load it with either WW 145gr Silver Tips or Speer 158gr Gold Dots.
 
I didn't want to read through all the responses, so sorry if this has been asked, but have you considered a charter arms bull pup in 44 or 357 magnum? It is only slightly larger than your 38 and significantly better power.

http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Mag_Pug_73521.html


Charter_Mag_Pug_73521.html
 
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Growing up in Wyoming I always loved getting away from it all in a wilderness area. I usually carried two guns, one in small caliber (.22) like a Ruger Bearcat or a S&W kit gun in my pack and the other depends on how I feel at the time. Occasionally I carry my Winchester 30/30 trapper, in a sleeve on my pack, that is surprisingly easy to get to, but most of the time I carry a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 (4 5/8").

I often carry two 50 rnd boxes of .22 and one box (20 rnds) of 30/30 and/or 30 rnds of .44. Two 12 rnd flat plastic wallet cases and six in the gun.

These choices may not work for everyone but they do for me. One thing for sure, I "never" go without a .22.

edit: forgot to mention that I rarely go alone, so the other person will also have a gun or two.
p.s. don't forget the matches
 
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ZeroD and M2 are pretty much on the same page I am.... which is that this gun is going to give me a certain amount of protection from everyting (less and more depending on the circumstances)... if it's a bear or moose I have to shoot at, well, a little more luck is going to have to play into it for me to come out on top...

To all- Thanks for all your input... I did consider many other guns, including many mentioned in this thread.... for one reason or another it came down to the gun I chose... but, this thread is supposed to be about my experience with this gun, and not a debate as to what might be better... I only included my reasoning behind the caliber/gun I chose so people would understand the reasons behind the choice.... Hopefully and likely, I will never have to back up those choices with solid irrefutable evidence of the effectiveness of my choice...

I am more than glad to hear about anyone elses experience with a pack gun because it all helps in the long run... (I am planning on winning the lottery here pretty soon... and then I will be adding several more firearms to the collection... :) )....

I really enjoy hearing about what works for who and why in the deep woods....

To add to the subject- I took this gun with me out to the Great North Woods again this weekend for some fun on dirtbikes.... just tossed it in my hydration pack and never thought about it again... although it is easy to argue that dirt biking doesn't require the same weight/space savings, thus I could have brought a bigger gun, it is nice to have a gun that just goes wherever you are going without any hassle.... the only times I ever seen a bear on a dirtbike it was his tail end as he booked into the woods....

Right now (until that lottery thing pays off) this gun is my 'goes everywhere' gun and stands to take a lot of abuse... I hope it's up to that task as well.... I'll be sure to let you know....
 
Well I am fairly familiar with the area you camp in. I have spent time around there myself hunting bear off the gunflint , and also west of the lake shore near Carlton Peak.
My woods gun back then was a K-frame S&W in .357 mag . A lot of the light weight guns have come along since my days in the woods of northern Minn.

I was never much concerned about my choice, and I have a healthy respect for the .38Spl which I reloaded and shot for years out of my Model 19's. Mostly with a hard cast 165 grn semi-wad cutter from my Lee mold. (gas checked for the hotter rounds & .357 mag loadings)
I hunted bear with the .357 as well ,and never felt under gunned so to speak. Most of the population of the critters are in the 350 lb or less range, with your 450 lb being near the top ( yes there are 500+ lb critters but darn few) As you mention, the bear and or Moose threat is not that great of a concern there. Attacks are very unusual.

Now you got me hungry for fresh blueberries mixed in the pancakes, and the clean fresh air of an autumn morning over a small camp fire grilling those pancakes on a small lake shore - and some home made maple syrup.
 
This thread reminded me of a story from my father in the late 60's. While deer hunting his partner killed a black bear in upstate NY with a six shot Colt Detective Special off duty gun. He said that he was protecting himself but he probably panicked when he spooked the bear. The ammo was the department issued 158gr lead round nose which is pretty anemic compared to today's options. The 38 special has been around a long time and has accounted for taking a lot of game.
 
I also spend alot of time in the woods near Longville,MN. i Carry a tuarus model 66 in .357. just recently bout a 10mm but havent had a chance to carry it thru the timber so im not sure how it feels. Its funny ive lived in this state all my life and never been to the boundary waters i need to get up there an check it out.
 
I'm going woods'n tomorrow morning. Going to scout out some fishing holes I saw on a satellite image. I plan to take my p345 in a kydex paddle holster with one spare mag and a NAA mini w/snakeshot (for snakes) in a IWB holster over my appendix. I like to go super-light for day trips like this.

I can understand the preference for a revolver for stuff like this, but in my area you're more likely to stumble onto a mexican-cartel-owned pot farm than to get attacked by a bear, and I might need the quick reload (that would be a bad day). Plus, I don't own a large caliber revolver right now. :(
 
38 specials are overlooked a lot. They aren't weak or underpowered in any way. A .38 round is a big nasty piece of hot metal to get hit with no matter who or what you are.
 
If you feel comfortable with a 38 spec, fine, but IMHO I'd rather carry a bit more weight than die because of not enough gun. There are plenty of really lightweight and small powerful guns out there right now. I had a Taurus 44c for a little while that weighs less than 30 oz had a 2.5 barrel and packed 5 rounds of 44 magnum. Its small,light and is a bear worthy caliber. Did you take a look at them when shopping around?

Personally my woods gun is a Blackhawk in 45colt loaded with 325gr Buffalo Bore hardcast but im also a member of the thin red mist line of thinking, if i have to shoot something dangerous in protection of myself that is all i want left of the target.

If you hunt bear than you know the only real reliable way of stopping them is to break them down so they literally cant move forward. A 38 special loaded with anything isnt gnna do that.
 
I've noticed that some people regard a trail/woodsgun as merely "dead weight." Therefore, nearly any gun will suffice. (until they actually need it, of course)

Other people regard the firearm as essential equipment and carry the gun that best suits the anticipated needs and is fully capable of meeting them.
 
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