amd6547
Member
Some people never carry a handgun on a thirty mile backpack trip, but are happy to pontificate for others who do.
My new deep woods pack gun experience...
- Thread starter RoostRider
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amd6547
Member
One of my favorite trail pistols now...the spam can stays home though!
For a longer trip. I stick with the 38 snub.
amd6547
Member
It was a GREAT trip...30 miles along the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania, raining every day, but we were prepared for it...good rain gear, tight tent. Lots of up and down terrain, including a 2000+ foot gain at the start after a four hour car ride, with full packs. It is at those times that the light weight of a 38snub is appreciated.
David E
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It all depends what the gun is FOR.
If for survival, meaning gathering small game for food, then it's hard to beat a .22, providing you can hit with it.
If it is specifically for bear defense, a .22 or .38 snub are poor choices. Power floor begins at 10mm with proper loads.
If it is only for "two legged snake" defense, then the power floor begins at the .38 snub. (with a lot of practice)
If for survival, meaning gathering small game for food, then it's hard to beat a .22, providing you can hit with it.
If it is specifically for bear defense, a .22 or .38 snub are poor choices. Power floor begins at 10mm with proper loads.
If it is only for "two legged snake" defense, then the power floor begins at the .38 snub. (with a lot of practice)
amd6547
Member
Bear danger, particularly from black bear, is highly over-rated...mainly by those who have no experience in the woods. Most backpackers I know don't carry any firearm, and have been backpacking for decades.
I have always carried because I am a shooter, and for me, a handgun is one of my essentials. I have encountered a couple squirrely individuals over the years, but I have never had to draw. There was an encounter where I had my revolver in hand in my parka pocket pointed at two guys who stopped their car while my pal and I were packing back to where our car was...they seemed a bit strange, and after a short conversation, they drove off.
The only time I actually prepared to fire a round was when a large buck came into our campsite and was acting in a strange aggressive manner (at 3am)...he ran off just as I was about to fire off a round to scare him.
I have always carried because I am a shooter, and for me, a handgun is one of my essentials. I have encountered a couple squirrely individuals over the years, but I have never had to draw. There was an encounter where I had my revolver in hand in my parka pocket pointed at two guys who stopped their car while my pal and I were packing back to where our car was...they seemed a bit strange, and after a short conversation, they drove off.
The only time I actually prepared to fire a round was when a large buck came into our campsite and was acting in a strange aggressive manner (at 3am)...he ran off just as I was about to fire off a round to scare him.
noob_shooter
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personally, a G27 or GP100 4" is fine... It's better to pack a little more power whenever possible.
OR a G20..
.....LAstly, work out and become stronger so you can carry more... My brother and buddies always telling how heavy my hunting rifles are to be carrying and walking with them all day for miles and miles, up and down hills. HUH? I go hunting carry a backpack with extra ammos, some sandwiches, 2-3 20 oz bottles of water + 6" knife + a small folding seat to sit on.. and yeah with my G27 on the side with a full mag in my pocket. I'm a small 5'7" @ 155lbs medium build. All day long in the woods and no problem...
Depending on what i'm hunting, I'll carry a 12 gauge 26" shotgun, Savage 17 hmr BTVS (heavy gun for rim fire), or my Saiga .308 21"..
OR a G20..
.....LAstly, work out and become stronger so you can carry more... My brother and buddies always telling how heavy my hunting rifles are to be carrying and walking with them all day for miles and miles, up and down hills. HUH? I go hunting carry a backpack with extra ammos, some sandwiches, 2-3 20 oz bottles of water + 6" knife + a small folding seat to sit on.. and yeah with my G27 on the side with a full mag in my pocket. I'm a small 5'7" @ 155lbs medium build. All day long in the woods and no problem...
Depending on what i'm hunting, I'll carry a 12 gauge 26" shotgun, Savage 17 hmr BTVS (heavy gun for rim fire), or my Saiga .308 21"..
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amd6547
Member
Now add a 6-8lb tent, a 4lb sleeping bag, a 2lb sleeping pad, a 1lb stove plus fuel for a week, a 2lb water purifier, food for a week, cook pot, medical kit, spare clothes appropriate for the hottest and coldest and wettest conditions you might encounter. Spare socks. Decent knife, either folding or sheath. Put it all in a backpack which is appropriate for the job...the pack itself will weigh 6-7lb's empty.
Those are the necessities. Anything else is optional. After the first couple long distance multi-day trips, every backpacker I know re-evaluates what gear gets included, and what stays home. On one of my first trips, I listened to people I later found didn't know what they were talking about, and toted a six-inch 44mag "for black bears". I soon wished I had chosen a different piece, live and learn.
Those are the necessities. Anything else is optional. After the first couple long distance multi-day trips, every backpacker I know re-evaluates what gear gets included, and what stays home. On one of my first trips, I listened to people I later found didn't know what they were talking about, and toted a six-inch 44mag "for black bears". I soon wished I had chosen a different piece, live and learn.
Sounds like the OP found his gun, but I'll add anyway. The .38 will handle 99% of any shooting situation you will encounter. I personally wanted the versatillity of the .357 Magnum and bought the S&W 386. I will soon be adding a SP101 3" to the pile, it weighs about the same, just smaller and the clockwork is rugged.
I've been a light infantryman. I understand the weight challenges. I used to have a Glock 23 that I took on several camping trips. Other potential good woods guns:
Glock 36
S&W 65
I do have a little Model 642. Easy to carry, but far from my first choice if I really needed it.
John
Glock 36
S&W 65
I do have a little Model 642. Easy to carry, but far from my first choice if I really needed it.
John
Speedyfish
Member
Had a close call yesterday hiking in Hillsborough County (FL). A group of wild, drunken young men were partying back in the woods. Heard them just before my attractive wife and I stumbled into them. I guarantee there would have been trouble. We gave them a wide berth and avoided contact. I will protect my family first and always. I did feel a bit undergunned with an M&P 340 and a speed strip. Next time, I'll have the G23 and spare mag to defend against the two-legged threats.
Yep. That used to be my standard load when camping. Just have to weigh your priorities, I guess.
I don't really expect to need a carbine and 240 rounds, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between carrying a little backup piece and one that's effectively a duty piece.
S&W 642: 14 oz, unloaded
Glock 23: 21 oz, unloaded
I'll gladly take that 50% additional weight in exchange for at least double the accuracy, significantly faster accurate presentation, faster follow-up shots, and over twice the ammunition capability and more power...not to mention much faster reloads. Now, you have much faster diminishing returns between, say, 21 oz and 30 oz, but a good compact polymer firearm like a Glock 23 is (IMO) a great choice. Some people prefer the subcompact versions, but my personal experience is that the size is getting too small for the return, and the size difference between a G19 (20.99 oz) and G26 (19.75 oz) size isn't nearly as significant as the additional usefulness of the larger piece.
John
I don't really expect to need a carbine and 240 rounds, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between carrying a little backup piece and one that's effectively a duty piece.
S&W 642: 14 oz, unloaded
Glock 23: 21 oz, unloaded
I'll gladly take that 50% additional weight in exchange for at least double the accuracy, significantly faster accurate presentation, faster follow-up shots, and over twice the ammunition capability and more power...not to mention much faster reloads. Now, you have much faster diminishing returns between, say, 21 oz and 30 oz, but a good compact polymer firearm like a Glock 23 is (IMO) a great choice. Some people prefer the subcompact versions, but my personal experience is that the size is getting too small for the return, and the size difference between a G19 (20.99 oz) and G26 (19.75 oz) size isn't nearly as significant as the additional usefulness of the larger piece.
John
I went hiking today with a J-frame .38, with snake loads alternated with Barnes/Cor-Bon .38+P. I didn't expect anything larger than a coyote, and mostly just expected snakes.
Farther up the mountain, I carry a .44 Mountain Gun. It's heavier, but it will actually do something if I have to use it on an aggressive bear or a pack of imported Canadian wolves. It weighs about the same as my .357, so I err on the side of the more powerful round.
Around town, the J-frame is usually in a pocket holster. It's one of the best guns for that purpose IMO. 450 pound bears? You know that, a couple years back, a guy was killed by a bear after emptying his .38 into it? The bear was shot by rangers or wardens some time later, and all six rounds of .38 were found in the bear, which was apparently none the worse for them.
WRT bears, the threat they pose varies from place to place. I don't worry much about them, but if I'm going to carry a gun around for miles, it might as well work for whatever I would have to shoot. We have the imported wolf packs, pissed off bull elk, moose, mountain goats, cougars, black bears, grizzly bears, and BLM land pot cultivators, all of which can kill people in the wilderness.
....oh, and beavers! You don't want to mess around with a beaver that wants to kill you. Or a marmot.
Farther up the mountain, I carry a .44 Mountain Gun. It's heavier, but it will actually do something if I have to use it on an aggressive bear or a pack of imported Canadian wolves. It weighs about the same as my .357, so I err on the side of the more powerful round.
Around town, the J-frame is usually in a pocket holster. It's one of the best guns for that purpose IMO. 450 pound bears? You know that, a couple years back, a guy was killed by a bear after emptying his .38 into it? The bear was shot by rangers or wardens some time later, and all six rounds of .38 were found in the bear, which was apparently none the worse for them.
WRT bears, the threat they pose varies from place to place. I don't worry much about them, but if I'm going to carry a gun around for miles, it might as well work for whatever I would have to shoot. We have the imported wolf packs, pissed off bull elk, moose, mountain goats, cougars, black bears, grizzly bears, and BLM land pot cultivators, all of which can kill people in the wilderness.
....oh, and beavers! You don't want to mess around with a beaver that wants to kill you. Or a marmot.
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I live in Idaho and we have the same threats in the deep woods that you have described in your opening post Roostrider. I carry a 3" Ruger SP101 loaded with .357 Federal Fusion 357 Magnum 158 Grain Jacketed Hollow Points and four speedloaders.
HB
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I understand what you mean, but i have never seen anybody party in the real backcountry. When I backpack, I walk at least 6 miles into the woods before setting up camp, depending on whether and water sources... I have never, ever, met anybody that is weird enough to carry a couple 30 packs of crappy beer to a swimming hole, 6 miles into the woods. Generally people you see on the trail will be individuals quite like yourself.
I would think that if you are going to run into trouble, it will be at the trailhead. If you run into trouble on the trail, it will be meth cookers (but they seem to move towards cities now) or pot growers.
HB
AB, I think I would be more likely to carry less firepower if I only have myself to consider. When I speak of carrying that G23, for instance, I was married to my first wife. By myself, it might be a different situation, but if I'm with others, I am assuming at least some responsibility for their safety.
J
J
ljnowell
Member
I dont know why you felt that was a close call. Probably some good ol boys blowin off some steam. Chances are if you would have stopped and talked they would have offered a beer or passed along something else. Not saying you should accept either, just saying they probably didnt have any violent intent. You cant be scared of everybody, thats no way to live.
amd6547
Member
I agree...Most trouble occurs near trailheads, someplace close enough for a yahoo to carry a twelve pack of beer after having already consumed a few.
I have carried a Glock 23, and it was fine for the trail. The best thing about it is it's trail-worthy finish.
I am really liking the Tokarev, now. The 7.62x25 Tok round has incredible penetration, and shoots very flat out to 100yds. The pistol itself is combat tough, and very simple. For all that, it is a cheap $200 pistol for knocking around the woods.
As for Speedyfish's encounter, you have to go with your gut feeling. When my pal and I are moving through the woods, we are usually pretty quiet...usually, we are aware of others on the trail long before they are aware of us.
I have carried a Glock 23, and it was fine for the trail. The best thing about it is it's trail-worthy finish.
I am really liking the Tokarev, now. The 7.62x25 Tok round has incredible penetration, and shoots very flat out to 100yds. The pistol itself is combat tough, and very simple. For all that, it is a cheap $200 pistol for knocking around the woods.
As for Speedyfish's encounter, you have to go with your gut feeling. When my pal and I are moving through the woods, we are usually pretty quiet...usually, we are aware of others on the trail long before they are aware of us.
SwampWolf
Member
I canoe/fish the Boundry Waters regularly (try to once a year but, living in Ohio, I don't always make it). At my age (66), the portages aren't getting any shorter but I don't plan on giving it up any time soon. As an aside, my brother and I put in at Mudro Lake (where the Chainsaw Sisters have-had?-there little saloon) and traveled up the Horse River to Basswood Falls where we camped, canoed and fished for two weeks. As best as I can recollect, our paddles first bit the water @ about 8:45 A.M., on September 11th, 2001. Because we never carry a radio (or GPS for that matter) for reasons of making our escape from "civilization" as meaningful as possible and because at that time of the year contact with other people is pretty much nil, imagine our shock and disbelief after we learned of the 9-11 attack for the first time, a full two weeks after the terrorists struck. We were informed of the attack by other canoeists on a portage trail while they were headed in as we were going back. I've always maintained that my brother and I may well have been the very last people on planet earth to have heard the awful news.
I always tote a firearm when traveling the Boundry Waters, not so much for the bears (though they are a factor!) as for the admittedly unlikely encounter with, as one poster aptly put it, feral rednecks or their humankind ilk. Over the years I've tried carrying various types of handguns (long guns are out of the question as far as I'm concerned due to their weight and bulk), including an alloy, six-shot Colt Cobra, a steel framed, five-shot, 3" barreled Smith J-frame (both .38 Specials), a Ruger Super Single Six (with the .22 Magnum cylinder) and a Colt Commander .45 ACP. My weapon of choice, however, for the past few years is the same one I carry concealed most of the time "in the city": a Smith & Wesson 6906. I have found this pistol to be the ideal compromise (any choice of a firearm will entail a compromise of some sort or another): relatively lightweight, of fairly rust-free construction, adequate caliber (9mm) and having a capacity of 13 rounds. Importantly, the pistol is also reliable to the extreme. I carry the pistol loaded and pack two loaded, spare magazines.
Despite my considered choice, I have no quarrel with the op's reasoning. A light-weight, .38 Special revolver is never a bad choice in the environs being discussed.
I always tote a firearm when traveling the Boundry Waters, not so much for the bears (though they are a factor!) as for the admittedly unlikely encounter with, as one poster aptly put it, feral rednecks or their humankind ilk. Over the years I've tried carrying various types of handguns (long guns are out of the question as far as I'm concerned due to their weight and bulk), including an alloy, six-shot Colt Cobra, a steel framed, five-shot, 3" barreled Smith J-frame (both .38 Specials), a Ruger Super Single Six (with the .22 Magnum cylinder) and a Colt Commander .45 ACP. My weapon of choice, however, for the past few years is the same one I carry concealed most of the time "in the city": a Smith & Wesson 6906. I have found this pistol to be the ideal compromise (any choice of a firearm will entail a compromise of some sort or another): relatively lightweight, of fairly rust-free construction, adequate caliber (9mm) and having a capacity of 13 rounds. Importantly, the pistol is also reliable to the extreme. I carry the pistol loaded and pack two loaded, spare magazines.
Despite my considered choice, I have no quarrel with the op's reasoning. A light-weight, .38 Special revolver is never a bad choice in the environs being discussed.
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