DuLL_ExIsTeNz
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Hey RoostRider, where are you from in northern MN, if you don't mind me asking? I grew up in Grand Rapids (MN, not MI) and my parents still live up there.
My new deep woods pack gun experience...
- Thread starter RoostRider
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RoostRider
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Scarey- now we're getting somewhere.... apology accepted... if I had better self control I would have just ignored you.... lol... so please accept my apology as well....
Yeah, there are better guns out there for the job (certainly not a long gun in this case), but one serious consideration was the price as well.... I don't have heaps of cash around and I feel a lot better about beating on a Taurus than I do a Glock or other similar priced gun... that coupled with the want for a non-semi-auto for the reasons above led me to the Taurus.....
This is my first Taurus, and my first .38 special.... who knows, maybe someday I will find something better for the job... or maybe I'll get eaten by a bear.... lol..
I only look at this gun as another trick up my sleeve as opposed to the be all, end all... I know it leaves a lot to be desired if I encounter a rabid bear or moose, but I also know those chances are slim enough that I would camp without a gun if I had to (as you noted, dying out there might be one of the best places to take leave of this planet)... with this gun I have a better chance in a bad situation, and it packs well enough that I can keep it right there at my side the whole time...
I may change my mind.... especially if this gun develops any problems (I haven't shot it enough yet either), or if I see any demonstrated need for more power...
Ed Ames- we will have to see about accuracy.... I have not put any rounds through this gun in a controlled environment where I can accurately judge
Dull- I grew up between Virginia and Ely... no doubt you are aware of the "icebox of the nation", Embarass Minnesota?.... I now live in the big city though (if you call St Paul big).... but I still get out there a lot... can't get that out of your blood once it's in there.... lol
Yeah, there are better guns out there for the job (certainly not a long gun in this case), but one serious consideration was the price as well.... I don't have heaps of cash around and I feel a lot better about beating on a Taurus than I do a Glock or other similar priced gun... that coupled with the want for a non-semi-auto for the reasons above led me to the Taurus.....
This is my first Taurus, and my first .38 special.... who knows, maybe someday I will find something better for the job... or maybe I'll get eaten by a bear.... lol..
I only look at this gun as another trick up my sleeve as opposed to the be all, end all... I know it leaves a lot to be desired if I encounter a rabid bear or moose, but I also know those chances are slim enough that I would camp without a gun if I had to (as you noted, dying out there might be one of the best places to take leave of this planet)... with this gun I have a better chance in a bad situation, and it packs well enough that I can keep it right there at my side the whole time...
I may change my mind.... especially if this gun develops any problems (I haven't shot it enough yet either), or if I see any demonstrated need for more power...
Ed Ames- we will have to see about accuracy.... I have not put any rounds through this gun in a controlled environment where I can accurately judge
Dull- I grew up between Virginia and Ely... no doubt you are aware of the "icebox of the nation", Embarass Minnesota?.... I now live in the big city though (if you call St Paul big).... but I still get out there a lot... can't get that out of your blood once it's in there.... lol
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RoostRider
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Hey DBR, can you tell me why it is you would think those rounds the best for the varying targets I might encounter?
I understand the wadcutter because you want penetration, but wouldn't a FMJ have the same result and be able to be pushed harder out the barrel? Those bullets are all non +P loads (which I would not go +P with a non-jacketed bullet anyways).
Also, why would it be hard to build a load similar to those on my own press?
I understand the wadcutter because you want penetration, but wouldn't a FMJ have the same result and be able to be pushed harder out the barrel? Those bullets are all non +P loads (which I would not go +P with a non-jacketed bullet anyways).
Also, why would it be hard to build a load similar to those on my own press?
DuLL_ExIsTeNz
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Yeah, I've been up that way a few times. I now live in the Twin Cities area as well. Yesterday it was 38 degrees in Grand Marais and 99 degrees in the southwest portion of the state. Ahhhhh, gotta love MN.
Enjoy the Taurus. I almost bought one of those, but as you've noted, the trigger pull is substantial.
BlindJustice
Member
Lightest I could go is a Smith & Wesson
Model 60 3" bbl. Adj.rear sight in .357 Mag.
My carry ammo with it, is .38 Special +P 125
gr. Gold Dot JHPs Double Tap rates @ 1135 FPS
out of a 4" Bbl. It's all stainless steel but 24
oz. weight empty. I like it's balance and pointability
and has the option of .357 Mag although I'd like a
bit bigger grips, say Herret's Troopers.
I also like the new offering by S&W the CCO fromat
variant, with Stainless Steel slide, Commander sized
with the scandium Officers' Frame - 28? oz.
Either one and shot cartridges are available.
I'm in SE Wash, but the Clearwater forest -
western edge of the Rockies is less than 20-30 miles
towards teh east .
To each their own.
Randall
Model 60 3" bbl. Adj.rear sight in .357 Mag.
My carry ammo with it, is .38 Special +P 125
gr. Gold Dot JHPs Double Tap rates @ 1135 FPS
out of a 4" Bbl. It's all stainless steel but 24
oz. weight empty. I like it's balance and pointability
and has the option of .357 Mag although I'd like a
bit bigger grips, say Herret's Troopers.
I also like the new offering by S&W the CCO fromat
variant, with Stainless Steel slide, Commander sized
with the scandium Officers' Frame - 28? oz.
Either one and shot cartridges are available.
I'm in SE Wash, but the Clearwater forest -
western edge of the Rockies is less than 20-30 miles
towards teh east .
To each their own.
Randall
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
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- 7,459
If I had to carry a lightweight .38 snubby for a woodsgun, I would load it with 158 grain SWCHP +P
After all, the main purpose as discussed in this thread is for the rabid redneck. With that in mind, I'd want the best performing bullet for that particular beast.
If I also wanted or expected the .38 snub to pull "survival gun" duty (presuming I could hit with it at distance) I'd also carry some 148 full wadcutters for small game.
I'd maybe toss in a few shotshells, too.
One thing I would not do is expect a .38 snubby to be bear stopper, so I wouldn't worry at all about what the best "bear load" would be for an Ultra Light .38 snub.
After all, the main purpose as discussed in this thread is for the rabid redneck. With that in mind, I'd want the best performing bullet for that particular beast.
If I also wanted or expected the .38 snub to pull "survival gun" duty (presuming I could hit with it at distance) I'd also carry some 148 full wadcutters for small game.
I'd maybe toss in a few shotshells, too.
One thing I would not do is expect a .38 snubby to be bear stopper, so I wouldn't worry at all about what the best "bear load" would be for an Ultra Light .38 snub.
ShadyScott999
Member
This is my answer. In a Kramer belt scabbard.
MCgunner
Member
.38 works fine as a pack gun. I prefer a .357 in bear country, but hell, I've seen bears, in the circus. I've hiked in New Mexico and saw a bear once, but ain't like I'm real worried about getting ate and a light .357 is enough, anyway. .38 around here is plenty. Good for personal defense, good for tranquilizing large sharks before boating them, good for an alligator if he gets too close. I have a little M85SSUL I carry concealed whenever I'm out just fishing or kayaking a bayou or something. Hell, around here, a .22 kit gun is plenty except that I'd rather have a .38 on me for 2 legged predators, which are 99.99 percent more likely to give me a problem than a gator or something.
That does sound like a fun place for a kayak, BTW. My wife gets on me about getting that kayak, but they're all the rage around here and add to my fishing experiences if nothing else. You get a little wetter in the yak than a canoe, so the stainless is much appreciated by me, too. Been so danged windy down here, though, I haven't had the yak out this spring. When it ain't windy, I seem to be flooded with work.
I carry a Kel Tec daily normally, swap for the Taurus now and then, but always carry the Taurus when going out in the boat or yak. Too much chance of it getting wet and the little .38 is all I need.
I've hiked in New Mexico and saw a bear once, but ain't like I'm real worried about getting ate and a light .357 is enough, anyway. .38 around here is plenty. Good for personal defense, good for tranquilizing large sharks before boating them, good for an alligator if he gets too close. I have a little M85SSUL I carry concealed whenever I'm out just fishing or kayaking a bayou or something. Hell, around here, a .22 kit gun is plenty except that I'd rather have a .38 on me for 2 legged predators, which are 99.99 percent more likely to give me a problem than a gator or something.That does sound like a fun place for a kayak, BTW. My wife gets on me about getting that kayak, but they're all the rage around here and add to my fishing experiences if nothing else. You get a little wetter in the yak than a canoe, so the stainless is much appreciated by me, too. Been so danged windy down here, though, I haven't had the yak out this spring. When it ain't windy, I seem to be flooded with work.
I carry a Kel Tec daily normally, swap for the Taurus now and then, but always carry the Taurus when going out in the boat or yak. Too much chance of it getting wet and the little .38 is all I need.
ReelFaith
Member
I would probably carry my Ruger LCR and my 45 M&P. I like the idea of having two better than one.
Cpt. America
Member
Sounds like a Ruger SP101 in .357 mag would do the trick. Its small relitivley light weight and can handle serious abuse. I would never waste my money on just a .38 I have always bought .357 mags and just shot .38s when I feel like it. Why limit yourself when for a few bucks more you could own the .357.
A stainless 5-6 shot small frame wheelgun in 357 is probbaly the best choice for a hiking/fishing/woods gun overall. Make sure you keep a POSITIVE retention holster. Your canoe gets upended by a moose/rock/spastic current and you go in the drink you'll cuss a blue streak for losing a gun.
As for ammo? No more than 2 reloads. When I'm hiking I have it for defense or signalling or food, to be used only in an emergency.
As for ammo? No more than 2 reloads. When I'm hiking I have it for defense or signalling or food, to be used only in an emergency.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
I built this to be a woods walking gun. it started life as a S&W 65 with a 3" barrel, I put a 4" pencil barrel from a S&W 64 and had it moonclipped. It makes for a great carry gun and will handle much of what a 357 will put out.
In this pic is a Ruger Sp101, S&W 13 3" and my S&W 65.
In this pic is a Ruger Sp101, S&W 13 3" and my S&W 65.
I think you will like your gun. Myself, I am a fan of the .44 for woods carry. That said, I have a long barrel Redhawk that I usually take with me. I wouldn't mind having a shorter 3" barrel, though. If I find one, I am definitely going to pick one up.
Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Concerning ammunition choice - -
RoostRider, it appears you've settled on your sidearm. Your choice might not be mine, but your posting indicates you've given thought, not only to weapon but tactics as well. I believe that a sportsman with a less-than-ideal weapon and a good plan might well prevail over one with a .454 Magnum and little thought about how to use it properly.
Concerning your choice of ammunition - - You say your snubbie is rated for +P pressures. Member DBR makes a really good point about hollow points being a poor choice in your situation. He states, "With an under powered gun penetration and shot placement is everything." Well said! Any expansion of a .36" bullet reduces penetration, and especially if the bullet has to punch through a significant amount of fur and thick skin. Another factor is that many animals purposely wallow in mud as protection from biting insects. Dried mud in thick fur is daunting to a heavy knife blade wielded by a strong man. How much more so, to a swift, lightly constructed bullet?
Several members have stated they'd carry 125 gr. JHP loads. One or two more mention the 158 gr LSWCHP+P load. This is my primary choice for snub nose revolvers, and it's a great urban anti-personnel load. Both, however, are still hollow points.
DBR mentions a good Buffalo Bore non-HP load, a 150 gr. full wadcutter the company rates at 850 fps. I like the BB cartridges, and carry their HPs for street defense. That particular load, however, is standard pressure, and has a full-caliber meplat, which tends to limit penetration.
A better choice for your purposes, I submit, would be the Remington number 38S14 load. It is a +P 158 gr. lead semi wadcutter NON-HP, rated at 890 fps from a four-inch barrel. This is the solid version of their number 38S12, the famous FBI load, one of the best of the 158 gr LSWCHP+P cartridges. The non-HP load is harder to locate than the HP version, and you may need to special order it.
If you're a handloader, you can pretty well duplicate this last Remington load, using a 158--160 gr. LSWC with 5.2 gr. of Unique powder. Speer says they got 919 fps from a 6" S&W, and Lyman says 982 fps with 5.3 gr. from a 4" barrel on a Universal receiver. These are published loads, but are definitely +P and NOT for use in non-+P rated revolvers. In a situation similar to yours, I'd be tempted to carry my 4" Colt Cobra, stoked with a hard-cast LSWC and 5.0 of Unique.
Whatever ammo you choose, I hope you'll put in a lot of practice with your little revolver.
I've never shot a big animal with a .38. This is just my best guess. I do know one man who stopped a grizzly bear with the fifth shot from a 4" .38 Special, over 40 years ago. He used High-Speed RNL loads. His rifle, and one of his legs, was pinned beneath a dead horse, so it was one of those "have-to" situations.
Best of luck,
Johnny
RoostRider, it appears you've settled on your sidearm. Your choice might not be mine, but your posting indicates you've given thought, not only to weapon but tactics as well. I believe that a sportsman with a less-than-ideal weapon and a good plan might well prevail over one with a .454 Magnum and little thought about how to use it properly.
Concerning your choice of ammunition - - You say your snubbie is rated for +P pressures. Member DBR makes a really good point about hollow points being a poor choice in your situation. He states, "With an under powered gun penetration and shot placement is everything." Well said! Any expansion of a .36" bullet reduces penetration, and especially if the bullet has to punch through a significant amount of fur and thick skin. Another factor is that many animals purposely wallow in mud as protection from biting insects. Dried mud in thick fur is daunting to a heavy knife blade wielded by a strong man. How much more so, to a swift, lightly constructed bullet?
Several members have stated they'd carry 125 gr. JHP loads. One or two more mention the 158 gr LSWCHP+P load. This is my primary choice for snub nose revolvers, and it's a great urban anti-personnel load. Both, however, are still hollow points.
DBR mentions a good Buffalo Bore non-HP load, a 150 gr. full wadcutter the company rates at 850 fps. I like the BB cartridges, and carry their HPs for street defense. That particular load, however, is standard pressure, and has a full-caliber meplat, which tends to limit penetration.
A better choice for your purposes, I submit, would be the Remington number 38S14 load. It is a +P 158 gr. lead semi wadcutter NON-HP, rated at 890 fps from a four-inch barrel. This is the solid version of their number 38S12, the famous FBI load, one of the best of the 158 gr LSWCHP+P cartridges. The non-HP load is harder to locate than the HP version, and you may need to special order it.
If you're a handloader, you can pretty well duplicate this last Remington load, using a 158--160 gr. LSWC with 5.2 gr. of Unique powder. Speer says they got 919 fps from a 6" S&W, and Lyman says 982 fps with 5.3 gr. from a 4" barrel on a Universal receiver. These are published loads, but are definitely +P and NOT for use in non-+P rated revolvers. In a situation similar to yours, I'd be tempted to carry my 4" Colt Cobra, stoked with a hard-cast LSWC and 5.0 of Unique.
Whatever ammo you choose, I hope you'll put in a lot of practice with your little revolver.
I've never shot a big animal with a .38. This is just my best guess. I do know one man who stopped a grizzly bear with the fifth shot from a 4" .38 Special, over 40 years ago. He used High-Speed RNL loads. His rifle, and one of his legs, was pinned beneath a dead horse, so it was one of those "have-to" situations.
Best of luck,
Johnny
MCgunner
Member
Now, as a pure WILDERNESS gun, sure. Carried open an SP101 is small and light on the hip. But, I carry my little Taurus as a CCW, in a pocket. I had an SP101 for a while. It felt like a cinder block in my pocket, had to be carried on a belt. Far as open carry hiking guns go, though, I have a very nice and very accurate 4" Taurus 66 in .357, a K frame sized gun. It's nickle finished, not stainless, but rugged enough in a flap holster. This gun succeeds a Security Six, a M19, and a Rossi M971. It is the most accurate of the medium frame .357s I've owned with both .357 and .38 special.
I own other guns that would work. I have a little M68 Rossi 3" .38 that's a neat little outdoor carry where I don't need magnum power for anything. I have a rather light Ruger P90 in .45ACP, stainless, very accurate, accurate enough for outdoor carry. I have a stainless 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt which I handload for if I REALLY need horsepower, but it's 40 ounces worth of gun on the hip. I have carried it in bear country and it wasn't too bad a weight to tote on a gun belt. But, around here, I just pocket carry and my little stainless UL .38 is my gun of the day if I'm going fishing or going to be around water or outdoors. I even put hogs down with it in the trap. .38 +P seems to work as good as .357 magnum for that.
If I get another SP101 (fine revolvers, very rugged design), it'll be a 3" gun this time. 3" guns offer more sight radius and a little more horsepower while not being any harder to carry than the shorter barrel since pocket carry isn't an option. I have a 3" Taurus 66 that is only about 5 ounces heavier and offers a sixth round, though, for IWB carry. But, it's blued and the grip frame is bulkier to tote under a T shirt. The SP101 is easier to conceal with a Hogue grip on it, nice little guns.
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
- Messages
- 7,459
Agreed. Accuracy with a .38 snubby is difficult for most people to achieve. I'd want basketball size groups @ 25 yds, double action, as a minimum. If the shooter can't do that, then another gun should be considered.
Remember that the OP's primary reason for carrying the gun is for the "rabid redneck." While they, too, may wallow in the mud, I don't think it would affect the 158 grain LSWCHP+P too much.
I see a trend of trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. IE; taking a gun that's best suited for a specific purpose (a lightweight, extreme close range defense gun) and attempting to magically transform it into an all-around woods/bear defense gun simply by loading it with different bullets.
BlindJustice
Member
Bear encounter, early '60s in the high Cascade
mountains of Washington State. We were hiking in
to a high mountain lake. The lead hiker Terry told us
he came around a bend and He met the black bear.
He yelled "BEAR!" and came back toward us, the Black
Bear took off in the other direction.
After making camp and getting the food hanging correctly
and all that we teen boys and the two Dads talked around the
campfire for a while. The next morning as we fished one
side of the lake the Black Bear was doing his fishing on the other
side of the lake. Great fishing as we were the first ones in
there.
Randall
mountains of Washington State. We were hiking in
to a high mountain lake. The lead hiker Terry told us
he came around a bend and He met the black bear.
He yelled "BEAR!" and came back toward us, the Black
Bear took off in the other direction.
After making camp and getting the food hanging correctly
and all that we teen boys and the two Dads talked around the
campfire for a while. The next morning as we fished one
side of the lake the Black Bear was doing his fishing on the other
side of the lake. Great fishing as we were the first ones in
there.
Randall
MCgunner
Member
My M85 has done some good shooting. At 25 yards, I'd rather cock the hammer, but I can put all my shots into 6-8" at 25 yards off hand DA. The DA on that thing is one of the best triggers I've ever picked up out of the box. No rabid redneck better mess with it.
I don't really fear bears, especially since there isn't a black bear within 400 miles of me. They all got shot out around the turn of the century, probably a lot of 'em with .38-40s.John Parker
Member
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- May 14, 2009
- Messages
- 679
Why is this such an issue? The OP is an experienced outdoorsman, and he's carrying what he's comfortable with. Big deal!
redbone
Member
RoostRider:
Absent a brown bear threat, I often carry a 2" j-frame in the backcountry and when on the water. My concerns are mostly two-legged, not four. I usually carry two reloads (10 rounds). I have few other handguns to choose if I want (and sometimes do), from .22 rimfire to .44 mag, but it's the .38 that's usually with me.
Mine is a S&W 637. I added Crimson Trace grips, which I am totally satisfied with. My accuracy with the iron-sights is okay, but I can hit a dinner plate at 50 yards with the laser. It is of no use in bright sunlight, of course.
I believe you have made an excellent selection.
Good luck.
RBH
Absent a brown bear threat, I often carry a 2" j-frame in the backcountry and when on the water. My concerns are mostly two-legged, not four. I usually carry two reloads (10 rounds). I have few other handguns to choose if I want (and sometimes do), from .22 rimfire to .44 mag, but it's the .38 that's usually with me.
Mine is a S&W 637. I added Crimson Trace grips, which I am totally satisfied with. My accuracy with the iron-sights is okay, but I can hit a dinner plate at 50 yards with the laser. It is of no use in bright sunlight, of course.
I believe you have made an excellent selection.
Good luck.
RBH
RoostRider:
1) BB says they use special powders to get the 850fps out of a 2" barrel at standard pressure. I know you can go +P but I doubt you will get better performance. Their powder is also flash suppressed.
Tim Sundles of BB told me they did a lot of development work on the bullet to get a very hard bullet that would not break up on impact with bone etc. If a soft bullet mushrooms or deforms say on hitting gristle or bone then you are back to inadequate penetration.
2) I have tested the Winchester version of the 158gr +P solid from a J Frame. Mine clocked 800fps +-. The 38 spl loads designed for a 4" barrel seem to lose a bit more than one would think in the 2" gun.
3) As I wrote, the 150gr BB penetrates 20-24" in gello. Also, the full diameter, very hard wadcutter makes a wound channel almost twice as large as the semi wadcutter shape.
Contrary to popular belief, the wound channel of a semi wadcutter is more related to the nose diameter than the shoulder diameter. Tests have shown the tissue tends to be stretched outside if the shoulder by the wake from the nose. The shoulder does not contact the tissue in a meaningful way, very similar to what a round nose bullet does.
1) BB says they use special powders to get the 850fps out of a 2" barrel at standard pressure. I know you can go +P but I doubt you will get better performance. Their powder is also flash suppressed.
Tim Sundles of BB told me they did a lot of development work on the bullet to get a very hard bullet that would not break up on impact with bone etc. If a soft bullet mushrooms or deforms say on hitting gristle or bone then you are back to inadequate penetration.
2) I have tested the Winchester version of the 158gr +P solid from a J Frame. Mine clocked 800fps +-. The 38 spl loads designed for a 4" barrel seem to lose a bit more than one would think in the 2" gun.
3) As I wrote, the 150gr BB penetrates 20-24" in gello. Also, the full diameter, very hard wadcutter makes a wound channel almost twice as large as the semi wadcutter shape.
Contrary to popular belief, the wound channel of a semi wadcutter is more related to the nose diameter than the shoulder diameter. Tests have shown the tissue tends to be stretched outside if the shoulder by the wake from the nose. The shoulder does not contact the tissue in a meaningful way, very similar to what a round nose bullet does.
RoostRider
Member
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- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 670
Johnny Guest.... thanks for the load info... I will check my manuals and work up a load (I think I have some Unique around).... part of my concern about DBR's suggestion was that it was standard power, and I had to wonder if there was some reason behind that selection...
I know I wont be feeding this gun a regular diet of +P rounds, even though it is rated for them it seems a bit on the light side (for the sake of my hand as well as the gun)... but my initial thought was +P for the woods and SD..
I have never run wadcutters at +P levels.... always just built up plinker loads with the WC's..... will leading be an issue? probably not given it would only be 5 rounds max before a good cleaning I would guess....
Just to set the record straight- it was 'feral' rednecks.... not rabid ones.... lol... the rabid ones stay in the bars up there and I stay out of those bars, because the dangers there are FAR higher than the risks in the woods.... lol .....
Clearly you can never account for every possibility and still be able to carry your pack across a portage. When you can only reasonably carry one gun, and even that has to be small, every gun is a compromise of some sort and you just have to make your choices and, as several have noted, have a plan to work with what you have....
I have chosen to be more comfortable on my guaranteed portages, and have a plan to work with the remote possibility of an unpleasant bear/moose encounter (remote even given we have HUGE black bear populations up there... it's pretty rare they are even seen, much rarer for them to confront a human, but it happens)
You guys have all been very helpful.... even if you disagree with my choice you give solid advice that clearly is what you really believe.... mostly this thread was to point out what I chose and why, not to debate the whole caliber thing...
I know I wont be feeding this gun a regular diet of +P rounds, even though it is rated for them it seems a bit on the light side (for the sake of my hand as well as the gun)... but my initial thought was +P for the woods and SD..
I have never run wadcutters at +P levels.... always just built up plinker loads with the WC's..... will leading be an issue? probably not given it would only be 5 rounds max before a good cleaning I would guess....
Just to set the record straight- it was 'feral' rednecks.... not rabid ones.... lol... the rabid ones stay in the bars up there and I stay out of those bars, because the dangers there are FAR higher than the risks in the woods.... lol .....
Clearly you can never account for every possibility and still be able to carry your pack across a portage. When you can only reasonably carry one gun, and even that has to be small, every gun is a compromise of some sort and you just have to make your choices and, as several have noted, have a plan to work with what you have....
I have chosen to be more comfortable on my guaranteed portages, and have a plan to work with the remote possibility of an unpleasant bear/moose encounter (remote even given we have HUGE black bear populations up there... it's pretty rare they are even seen, much rarer for them to confront a human, but it happens)
You guys have all been very helpful.... even if you disagree with my choice you give solid advice that clearly is what you really believe.... mostly this thread was to point out what I chose and why, not to debate the whole caliber thing...
LOL eventually every thread not about a .45 or .357 ends up debating calibers! But I still agree that for long hiking trips or backpacking more than a few days, especially kayaking, you need to think about comfort and adaptability for ALL your equiptment. For a dayhike, sure you can go with a larger gun, but for some serious hiking you need to be comfortable in carry and use.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Any handgun, even a .500, should be easier to pack than a rifle or shotgun. A well designed pack distributes the weight it carries for maximum comfort. Carry any handgun you deem powerful enough for your needs.
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