Ideas for a General Purpose Rifle (GPR) chambered in 308

[fragout]

The below pic is not as impressive as 1000yard hits with iron sights, but my set up concerning iron sights on a GPR M14S Tanker works for me in terms of hunting critters other than hogs, and in multiple states.

(Inside of 100yards via 165gr SGK BTSP)

Edit: If I had to leave the house with only 1 type of ammunition (for whatever reason), it would probably be this one.

 

[mac66]

Just a few comments on the Saiga 308,

-Probably the worse trigger out of the box of any rifle I ever shot. That was before I converted it. While it is still long and creepy, it is at least pretty light and consistent. Converting them from the conventional style to a pistol grip style makes a big difference because the trigger linkage. I bought that gun in 2001 and it sat for about 8 years until I finally got around to converting it. I couldn't stand to shoot it.

-Recoil is pretty mild compared to some 308s I've owned.
-It is about a 4 MOA rifle which is about standard for a service rifle.
-The sights like on all AKs, suck. I like military peep sights so I am thinking of putting a rear Tech Sight on it. I think I would be able to shoot it more accurately
-Still looking for a decent scope rail that sits low enough and actually fits. I've tried a couple but didn't like them. Again, it would make it easier to shoot more accurately with a scope.
-With the 16" bbl, It does make a pretty compact and powerful package.

Might want to look at the Saiga 308 thread that was up and running for awhile

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567005&highlight=saiga+308

 

[fragout]

What does your rifle weigh out to as it sits in your pic Mac66?

I could never find a mounting system I liked concerning the AK.

I did prefer the tech sights installed on an SKS much better than their OEM sights.

 

[mac66]

7 lbs 12 ozs as shown.

I do have Tech Sights on a number of rifles including a SKS so it is a viable option on this one.

 

[AKMtnRunner]

you know.. lately ive been having a bit of an internal struggle with myself.. my biggest competition in debate has always been with myself.. i can see multiple sides of any story and its never so black and white.. unfortunately

the issue im having now is about .308 being the best "general purpose rifle" caliber.. its very useful, yes, but is it the best?.. imagine if society had a breakdown, riots maybe and you had your one general purpose rifle with you where you were staying and had to hunt for food.. does it really matter if its a 5.45, a 5.56, a .308? either one of these im fairly certain will regularly and reliably kill deer with the proper placement and some people hunt quite successfully with 75 grain rounds in 223.. if every round is meat on the table, then more ammo means more food, right?

so my real question is, do you still take a 308 for that added assurance, the added range you probably wont be able to reliably hit anyway due to certain environmental reasons, wind, brush, or maybe your scopes broken and youre using iron sights.. its hard to say and i dont have an answer to these questions because i think ANY of these calibers are equally suitable, just so long as practice the tactics that go with it

what i mean by this, if .308 is your GPR caliber, slower follow up shots but more range and energy are the characteristics, learn how to use that to your advantage, engage your target at a greater distance.. if youre hunting for example, youre less likely to be detected by the deer at great distances and in some regions you dont have much choice

if you have a smaller caliber like 5.45 or 5.56, you have more ammo, quicker follow up shots at a cost for power.. there are tactics you can practice to benefit from this..

bottom line is you can be effective with any of it, it comes down to what youre personally capable of doing and the areas you most want to practice with.. if youre trying to use an AK-74 as a sniper rifle or a .308 in close quarters then you probably wont be as efficient

Which is why I think the GPR (or scout rifle concept) is a lot of fun to debate, but for practical matters, not much is resolved by it. Nor is it necessary to limit yourself to one long gun. Let's face it, when we limit ourselves to the amount of gear that we can carry, we know what our needs are, and they are specific enough to warrant a fairly specialized type of long gun.

But like I said, it's still fun to debate I guess I believe in having access to a wide variety of firearms so that I can make up my mind as I go. Until then, my pick of a single long gun in peace time is a bolt action 30-06. In not so peaceful-time, you can be assured that I am not so concerned about bringing down a large game critter with one shot. How I would differentiate the two scenarios is by the question: is there any chance a game warden will be out there and cares? I'll probably have answer to that when I have to pick.

 

[Float Pilot]

In not so peaceful-time, you can be assured that I am not so concerned about bringing down a large game critter with one shot.

If the woods and mountains were littered with various bands of two legged carpet baggers, any loud and/or repeated noise would bring hordes of them to your location.

Should we devolve into that situation, something small and quite, such as used by the French resistance in real life, would be much more practical than blazing away in a Rambo fantasy.

 

[LebbenB]

what i mean by this, if .308 is your GPR caliber, slower follow up shots but more range and energy are the characteristics, learn how to use that to your advantage, engage your target at a greater distance.. if youre hunting for example, youre less likely to be detected by the deer at great distances and in some regions you dont have much choice

if you have a smaller caliber like 5.45 or 5.56, you have more ammo, quicker follow up shots at a cost for power.. there are tactics you can practice to benefit from this

...Which is why I'm big on 300 BLK. I get the mag capacity and easy portability of 5.56 with the terminal effects of 30 caliber, out to 300m or so with supersonic loads. It's the best of both worlds.

Ballistically, 300 BLK is very similar to 7.62x39, though I think that 30-30 is a better comparator. I would be all over 7.62x39 if better ammo (Better bullet construction and better propellants are my main gripes) were readily available.

 

[fragout]

"If the woods and mountains were littered with various bands of two legged carpet baggers, any loud and/or repeated noise would bring hordes of them to your location.

Should we devolve into that situation, something small and quite, such as used by the French resistance in real life, would be much more practical than blazing away in a Rambo fantasy."
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The above is exactly why I think that a can would be useful on any rifle chosen. ( Especially for the Scout rifle and how it is described to be best utilized)

Example: You might be surprised at how many folks there are in our state that don't know it's legal to dump hogs at night here.

This, combined with 3gen/4gen NVS can greatly decrease unwanted attention.

 

[CraigC]

Somehow I think that a rifle that costs somewhere from $1500 and up with $3000-$6000 worth of nightvision and another $1000 in a can/stamp is about as far from "general purpose" as one can get.

He decided the answer was his rifle then frames the requirements to it.

Precisely.

 

[fragout]

Somehow I think that a rifle that costs somewhere from $1500 and up with $3000-$6000 worth of nightvision and another $1000 in a can/stamp is about as far from "general purpose" as one can get.



Quote:
He decided the answer was his rifle then frames the requirements to it.

Precisely.
=========================================================

You can assume whatever you want, and you would also be incorrect.

Mine is useful day and night.

Expensive? Yup

Legal? Yup.

Worth it? Probably not as much for those that do not plan to use a rifle after dark. ( General purpose does not = day time only in my case, and this is more versatile for me vs several "speacialty" rifles chambered in different cartriges..)

The ability to utilize a rifle chambered in 308 without bothering the niehbors?

Priceless. (Just ask the niehbors. )

Besides....... I didnt ask you for any money......lol

With that being said, your Ruger GSR idea wouldnt be a bad choice in this regard if one prefers bolt action rifles, as well as a few others once the bbl is threaded.
Example: It already sports a threaded tube. Add an XS rail and this would give you a rear sight aperture, and the ability to mount NVS over the reciever, or an optic over the receiver with pvs22/27's tandem.

 

[CraigC]

In most states it's illegal to hunt with a suppressor, or beyond 30mins after sunset. Which means your "general purpose" rifle is even more specialized. Again, just more of the same, making the requirements fit the rifle and justifying decisions already made. I'm assuming nothing, merely reading the words on the screen.

 

[fragout]

Like I said, you have made incorrect assumptions.

Assumption #1:

Requirements were not framed around the rifle.

Actual event that transpired:

Requirements were drawn out 1st, and the rifle was built to meet them.


Assumption #2

Rifle cost was less than $1500.

Actual cost: $735.92 when it was all said and done.


Why assume instead of simply ask me?

If you were to ever start a thread about how your lever actions work well as multipurpose rifles for you, I would ask questions....provided I had any.
FWIW..... I dont see anything wrong with your choice. It simply has nothing to do with this thread.

As far as cans and NVS go, it simply opens more options for those of us who can utilize them, while rifles without them have less versatility.
If you live in a state that considers one or both to be illegal, then that has nothing to do with the rifle type.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^

Your requirements are so far from "general purpose" as to laughable.


Willie


.

 

[CraigC]

...while rifles without them have less versatility.

What you really mean is less options for specialization. Not the same thing.

If you live in a state that considers one or both to be illegal, then that has nothing to do with the rifle type.

It's not the object that is considered illegal, it's the use of suppressors for hunting or hunting after dark with nightvision equipment. Even so, one can just as easily thread a bolt gun for a can or install nightvision if that is desired. IMHO, this is specialization, not general purpose.

It simply has nothing to do with this thread.

I'm confused. You ask:
"So what are your thoughts concerning a 308 chambered GPR?"

Do you want to know what we think or not? Or do you really just want responses to be limited to those who edify your choice?

 

[fragout]

LebbenB:

I just bought a Ruger SR762.

Will be picking it up tommorrow.

I'll start a thread about it specifically at a later time.

I couldnt resist it, plus it costs a bit less compared to an LRB M25 (the way I would have it built.)

 

[fragout]

Your requirements are so far from "general purpose" as to laughable.
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Mine are simply different than yours are and I stated them.

I'm not trying to sell my ideas to you or anyone else here.

I respect your choice, and reasons behind it, but it's not mine.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[fragout]

Do you want to know what we think or not? Or do you really just want responses to be limited to those who edify your choice?
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Niether. (Read the opening post again.)

In your first post, you replied with your thoughts. While I dont agree with them, I respect you for sharing them. (This is why I brought up your ideas behind the Ruger GSR that you referred to in your initial post that you seemed to have ignored...... and simply had an idea that some might find useful if they have or want to buy a GSR.

Your 30-30/44mag lever guns and 250 Savage rifle however have nothing to do with this thread.

There has been quite a few folks who have decided on something different than my choice, and didnt feel the need to crituqe mine. (Semiautomatic as well as bolt action)

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I thought SHTF threads where not allowed here? I could survive under any circumstance with my 1951 Winchester M 70 in 30-06 and my 40 year old Puma pocket knife.

 

[mac66]

"I just bought a Ruger SR762.

Will be picking it up tommorrow.

I'll start a thread about it specifically at a later time.

I couldnt resist it, plus it costs a bit less compared to an LRB M25 (the way I would have it built.)"

Congrats Fragout, good choice. Mine won't be shipped for another week at least. Let us know how you like it.

 

[CraigC]

Your 30-30/44mag lever guns and 250 Savage rifle however have nothing to do with this thread.

The .250Savage is a rifle I own. I clearly stated that it would not be my choice for an all purpose rifle because the chambering is a little light. What I DID say was that it was available as a .308 and THAT would be my choice, identically configured. The levergun reference is just that, that while I'm fully capable of choosing a .308 boltgun it would not be my first choice. I think if you can ramble on about night vision and suppressors that a little levergun reference will be okay.

Niether.

That's about what I figured.


Be honest. You like the M1A and that is why you chose it. Everything else is just justification for doing so, which is entirely unnecessary. There is nothing at all wrong with your choice. I'd rather be in the field with a traditional muzzleloader than anything else. I do so because I want to, because that is how I want to play the game and for no other reason. The fact that it is not the most efficient tool for the job is irrelevant. Because for me, putting a projectile on target is not the only purpose a firearm serves. At least I'm honest about that.

 

[fragout]

LOL....... Your a funny little rabbit CraigC.

Did you even read the initial post? ( Save your crap about being honset)

If 308 is not your choice, then good for you. Why post here? Start your own thread about your lever guns.

You kinda figured ......right?

I respectufully ask that you quit trolling here.

 

[fragout]

Congrats Fragout, good choice. Mine won't be shipped for another week at least. Let us know how you like it.
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Will do Mac66.

 

[back40]

honestly with all them mention of shtf, i'm surprised this thread has lasted this long.

secondly, again fragout, with the name calling. are you incapable of having a conversation without taking little jabs at folks that disagree with you?

also, of all the "general purpose" rifle threads i've read in my time, and it's been plenty, this is the one and only that i can recall where someone stated a can and NV as general purpose gear.

i understand that you get a kick out of hunting hogs at night. that's fine. but if you were to ask 10 guys on what their view of a general purpose rifle would be, how many answers do you think you'd get that included a can and NV?

added bonus? fun? sure. general purpose? no.

 

[DeMilled]

I'd like a can and night vision optics on my GPR.

 

[fragout]

That makes 2 of us so far back40......lol

Might be a good topic for a poll here at THR.

NVS and cans are simply items I have the ability to utilize on my GPR.
The rifle is still the same rifle.