LebbenB
Member
Kind of like the Faxon Firearms AR/AK.
Ideas for a General Purpose Rifle (GPR) chambered in 308
- Thread starter fragout
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I think everyone should take a moment, or two, to consider how likely it is for every one to define a "general purpose *insert item here*" differently than other people.
General purpose truck? We would all have different opinion and I'd like to think we could discuss it without snide remarks and derogatory generalizations.
fragout didn't start this thread for people to come argue about which sort of General Purpose Rifle is better than another; he defined what a GPR is to him and asked how other people define the GPR. He also asked for pics...
Can everyone please stop talking trash about each others view points?
No one is going to change anyone elses' opinion about a GPR.
If you want to talk about the rifle you feel fills the GPR role, why you think it is a great GPR and maybe even post a pic, or two it would be a great contribution.
Unless you guys want a mod. to come in here and lock this bad boy can we please leave the SHTF trash talking behind?
Common guys, group hug time
General purpose truck? We would all have different opinion and I'd like to think we could discuss it without snide remarks and derogatory generalizations.
fragout didn't start this thread for people to come argue about which sort of General Purpose Rifle is better than another; he defined what a GPR is to him and asked how other people define the GPR. He also asked for pics...
Can everyone please stop talking trash about each others view points?
No one is going to change anyone elses' opinion about a GPR.
If you want to talk about the rifle you feel fills the GPR role, why you think it is a great GPR and maybe even post a pic, or two it would be a great contribution.
Unless you guys want a mod. to come in here and lock this bad boy can we please leave the SHTF trash talking behind?
Common guys, group hug time
You really can't pick up a turd by the clean end.
You can jump up and down all you want OP's definition of "security" is SHTF.
Also he is letting the tail wag the dog. He decided the answer was his rifle then frames the requirements to it.
A signifigant portion of the trash talk is by the OP himself
BTW you can mount a suppressor on a bolt gun.
you can call a cold bore shot with a 223.
You can even kill plenty of pigs with a bolt action 223
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barnbwt
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I took it as him saying this rifle fits his needs nicely, hence why he likes it, it's his favorite, etc. No chance that anyone can stumble across something that works well for them and appreciate that after the fact? Or is everything you do planned ahead of time with the result you expect? Realizing a tool is indispensable, then quantizing why it is indispensable is the first step in improving upon it.
Willie, I think it's fair to say you don't like semi-autos, or at least see no civilian use for them. But their phenomenal popularity should suggest that, just possibly, they work wonderfully for many (most?) others and suit their perceived needs just nicely. Whether or not you deign to rule their needs "legitimate." You raise a good point about manual actions handling under-powered or specially loadings better, but semi's can be top loaded, too; just not from a magazine. They can also be manually cycled without issue if a gas-cutoff is present.
"been wanting to design something really good that i could release as open-source and make available to everyone who wanted to make their own"
That's a big mission WG is trying to work on, since we all know parts kits won't last forever, but AR and AK bits will be ubiquitous for the duration of gunownership in this nation. Combining the reliability/compactness of the AK bolt carrier and forward piston/spring arrangement with the modularity and barrel/extension design of the AR was the goal. I think we were scuttled by no one's being willing to destroy both an AR and an AK to determine the project's viability
Also, 223 does kill pigs just fine, but 308 is a lot heavier, and therefore has a wider range of effective shots before it runs out of penetration. When blasting at a scattering sounder, I understand the need for sufficient effectiveness even in non-ideal shots (like from a helicopter
). I personally would only take "ethical" shots at pigs, but I understand that landowners seeking to annihilate a pest may have no such luxury.TCB
Wow. Say it aint so Mavracer
My definition of security= your definition of SHTF. No problem. Thanks for sharing.
I am simply interested in what others consider thier's to be. I never said that my choice was better. Only that it's better for me. ( More than once even) ( Also mentioned other rifles that I have used for the GPR role. They were not as well suited for me as my current choice has been during the last 10yrs or so.)
Any pics of your hog kills? I have shown a few of mine, among other dead critters. I was out hunting them last night in below freezing weather, while you were busy thinking up insults.
You are correct, as I did a little trash talkin. I made the appology and moved on.
I'm not interested in a bolt action rifle of any caliber to be used as my own GPR, but I dont have anything against folks that have made this choice, and as long as the rifle is chambered in 308 (for this thread's purpose) then I would love to hear about it, along with pics if one wishes to share them.
...IE..... Details of any 308 chambered rifle would be great.
If I have offended you in any way, then I apologise to you as well.
My definition of security= your definition of SHTF. No problem. Thanks for sharing.
I am simply interested in what others consider thier's to be. I never said that my choice was better. Only that it's better for me. ( More than once even) ( Also mentioned other rifles that I have used for the GPR role. They were not as well suited for me as my current choice has been during the last 10yrs or so.)
Any pics of your hog kills? I have shown a few of mine, among other dead critters. I was out hunting them last night in below freezing weather, while you were busy thinking up insults.
You are correct, as I did a little trash talkin. I made the appology and moved on.
I'm not interested in a bolt action rifle of any caliber to be used as my own GPR, but I dont have anything against folks that have made this choice, and as long as the rifle is chambered in 308 (for this thread's purpose) then I would love to hear about it, along with pics if one wishes to share them.
...IE..... Details of any 308 chambered rifle would be great.
If I have offended you in any way, then I apologise to you as well.
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Back too topic.........
Anyone here utilize a modular system such as a 7.62x51mm AR?
IE....... Multiple uppers with a dedicated optic for each?
Example: A 16in bbl upper with a red dot or holo sight, and a 20in bbl utilizing a scope better suited for seeing and shooting things from a distance?
I have tried it before with a similar platform chambered in another caliber, but didnt find much use for it then.
What about 308? Worth it or not in your opinion?
Anyone here utilize a modular system such as a 7.62x51mm AR?
IE....... Multiple uppers with a dedicated optic for each?
Example: A 16in bbl upper with a red dot or holo sight, and a 20in bbl utilizing a scope better suited for seeing and shooting things from a distance?
I have tried it before with a similar platform chambered in another caliber, but didnt find much use for it then.
What about 308? Worth it or not in your opinion?
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with regard to caliber, i don't think there is anything more suitable than .308. it covers just about everything one would want to do with a rifle. sure there are a few specialty rolls that it can't fill, but the calibers that cover those rolls certainly can't do everything that the .308 can. i.e. long range precision, small game hunting, cqb, etc. there are finer choices in caliber for those applications, but those choices don't provide as much versatility as .308. the .308 is about as 'suv' as it gets.
wide availability, of both loaded ammo and components in a variety of bullet weights and designs, along with milsurp and bulk offerings. plenty of load data, stocked in just about any store that stocks ammo of any sort. wide use by fed agencies and local pds. for a go-to round, it's pretty tough to beat.
a .308 semi may be in my not too distant future, but i doubt that i would choose it for any hunting i do simply because i have better options available. i like the caliber, and have other rifles chambered for it, reload for it, and have plenty of it set aside.
wide availability, of both loaded ammo and components in a variety of bullet weights and designs, along with milsurp and bulk offerings. plenty of load data, stocked in just about any store that stocks ammo of any sort. wide use by fed agencies and local pds. for a go-to round, it's pretty tough to beat.
a .308 semi may be in my not too distant future, but i doubt that i would choose it for any hunting i do simply because i have better options available. i like the caliber, and have other rifles chambered for it, reload for it, and have plenty of it set aside.
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"the .308 is about as 'suv' as it gets
I agree.
You can run RRLP bullets for home defense, Sierra Game Kings for taking game and Mil. Surp. FMJ for penetration applications.
When I started shopping for my GPR I settled on the 308 cartridge very quickly and have not found a reason to regret that choice.
I reload to keep keep costs down while having the best ammo custom tailored for my rifles.
I agree.
You can run RRLP bullets for home defense, Sierra Game Kings for taking game and Mil. Surp. FMJ for penetration applications.
When I started shopping for my GPR I settled on the 308 cartridge very quickly and have not found a reason to regret that choice.
I reload to keep keep costs down while having the best ammo custom tailored for my rifles.
I've had an FN/FAL. HK91, CETME, M1a, Saiga, Savage 99C, Winchester 70 and a Winchester 100 all in 308. The I gave the Savage to my dad and sold the Win 100 to my brother. I still have the M1a and Saiga but the FN, HK and CETME were sold off. I have a Ruger SR 762 on order but only because I am getting it free.
To be honest I don't anticipate ever getting into a firefight and if I did, I would probably use an AR15. On the other hand I've killed more stuff with my 20" bbl Win 70 308 bolt action than all the rest combined and haven't found anything that I can't do with it that a semi would do better.
Here's my current semi auto 308s...
To be honest I don't anticipate ever getting into a firefight and if I did, I would probably use an AR15. On the other hand I've killed more stuff with my 20" bbl Win 70 308 bolt action than all the rest combined and haven't found anything that I can't do with it that a semi would do better.
Here's my current semi auto 308s...
If I were to define and have whatever a GPR means to me...I'd probably just grab my 14.5" LW barreled AR15 with TA33 ACOG. I don't hunt, but it would do fine on deer size game with bonded soft points. Great for security/SHTF. In the range category, I've taken it to 500yds no problem. Light, handy, and I've carried some M16/M4 variant all over the world (just the miserable parts) off and on for 20 years.
If I hunted, I could just swap a different upper on it in 6.8 SPC or 300 BLK. Or toss a 16" 300BLK barrel in my MRP...
If I hunted, I could just swap a different upper on it in 6.8 SPC or 300 BLK. Or toss a 16" 300BLK barrel in my MRP...
sappyg
Member
Quite a topic!
Though I can't agree with OPs definition of "security" or exactly what that means to the community it is fun to theorize about a GPR.
IMO Cooper had it right from the beginning... It's called the scout rifle. Make mine plain and simple please and no I don't see myself a fan of the EER "scout" scope and mounting solution.
Looked at a GSR today. Liked it. Could do without the ungainly magazine. Nice rifle though I still wouldn't buy it. Not sold on the notion that capacity plays that big of a role here.
Caliber choice as peaked my interest. If a GPR is to be a jack of all trades ( and master of non) then why not the lowly 243? Recoil is easy to master quickly. Ammo is lighter. It can take most game in North America with few exceptions. Plus, I've never met one that wasn't a an absolute tack driver. It's plenty versatile and ammo is readily available. Mine does well with bullets from 70gr- 100gr. And can literally outshot any rifle I have.
Though I can't agree with OPs definition of "security" or exactly what that means to the community it is fun to theorize about a GPR.
IMO Cooper had it right from the beginning... It's called the scout rifle. Make mine plain and simple please and no I don't see myself a fan of the EER "scout" scope and mounting solution.
Looked at a GSR today. Liked it. Could do without the ungainly magazine. Nice rifle though I still wouldn't buy it. Not sold on the notion that capacity plays that big of a role here.
Caliber choice as peaked my interest. If a GPR is to be a jack of all trades ( and master of non) then why not the lowly 243? Recoil is easy to master quickly. Ammo is lighter. It can take most game in North America with few exceptions. Plus, I've never met one that wasn't a an absolute tack driver. It's plenty versatile and ammo is readily available. Mine does well with bullets from 70gr- 100gr. And can literally outshot any rifle I have.
krupparms
Member
When I was younger, I used a Marlin 336 L.A. in .30-30win. as my G.P.R.. It worked well in that role for years. After I moved back out west, I found a Ishapore 2A1,B.A. in 308 that I shortened down into a nice G.P.R.! I now use a Ruger G.S.R. and find it to fill that role fine! I can think of 2 or 3 other rifles that would also fill that role just fine! I have a nice FAL that would work if I chose to use it. But I would choose a B.A. rifle as my G.P.R.! And get a good scope for it! Just my thoughts on the matter.
jason41987
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- Apr 10, 2012
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ive never owned a saiga 308, but about 90% of my EBR (evil black rifle) experience is with the AK design.. and i am kind of in the market for a 308 or bigger so id be interested in knowing what people think of them too.. seems like it might be the logical progression for me if i already know the platform like the back of my hand
The saiga .308 rifles are fun to shoot. Its fun to pass back and forth trying to hit a pop can at 100 yards off hand.
Shooting paper or for groups its more annoying, since the stamped receiver defies any attempts to hold perfect zero, it always seems to be drifting while shooting.
My 100 yard 5 shot groups are normally 3 inches or larger. I've done as good as 2 inches but not with any sort of repeatably.
The rifle is fairly forgiving for dirt and debris.
One good option for an AK GPR would be the Vepr hunter in .308.. It looks like a hunting rifle with a 5 or 10 round magazine, lock in a 20 and you have a defensive arm. Its legal in most states with just the smaller magazine, since it has no pistol grip.
Shooting paper or for groups its more annoying, since the stamped receiver defies any attempts to hold perfect zero, it always seems to be drifting while shooting.
My 100 yard 5 shot groups are normally 3 inches or larger. I've done as good as 2 inches but not with any sort of repeatably.
The rifle is fairly forgiving for dirt and debris.
One good option for an AK GPR would be the Vepr hunter in .308.. It looks like a hunting rifle with a 5 or 10 round magazine, lock in a 20 and you have a defensive arm. Its legal in most states with just the smaller magazine, since it has no pistol grip.
Willie Sutton
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Willie, I think it's fair to say you don't like semi-autos, or at least see no civilian use for them. But their phenomenal popularity should suggest that, just possibly, they work wonderfully for many (most?) others and suit their perceived needs just nicely. Whether or not you deign to rule their needs "legitimate." You raise a good point about manual actions handling under-powered or specially loadings better, but semi's can be top loaded, too; just not from a magazine. They can also be manually cycled without issue if a gas-cutoff is present.
On the contrary, I hold a definitive collection of semi auto Battle Rifles starting with the SVT-38 and progressing thru a dozen varieties of FN-49, in addition to a half dozen G-43's and moving along to FAL's ranging from G series thru original Australian inch pattern, etc. Then Garands including original C and D model snipers, M1a, Hakims (straight and snipers), CETME Sport (pre-HK, not Century junk), etc , etc., etc. Can't forget the original AR-10 either, the one with the cocking ring under the handle. Have a FG-42 arriving soon. There's about, oh... 50 in all. So...I've got pretty much "whatever I want" after some thirty plus years of advanced collecting.
With that said, these are all specialists rifles designed to be used in combat in a purely military environment. Selecting one for "general purposes" in many cases limits you to carrying an overweight rifle that you cannot hunt with legally in many places, can't even own in others, that do not allow the variety of handloads to be used that a bolt gun permit, all so you can shoot up ammo faster in a world where that really is meaningless for the most part.
I appreciate my collection. I have several large safes filled. I have studied these designs and collected them for longer than many readers here have been alive.
I bring along my Scout Rifle. A real one. If I needed to sell all but one, this us what I would keep. When I leave on year long trips, which I do frequently, it's what I have with me.
You can get all the rifle you want for 99.9% of what you need in any of the good synthetic stocked bolt action .308's with a decent scope, good sling, and reliable back up sights. What it might lack is "cool factor". <shrugs>... That's sometimes a feature too. Less hassle from DNR, Cops, the works. If you want to go shoot herds of hogs, bring out a special rifle. That's not the "General" case for hunting.
Willie
.
On the contrary, I hold a definitive collection of semi auto Battle Rifles starting with the SVT-38 and progressing thru a dozen varieties of FN-49, in addition to a half dozen G-43's and moving along to FAL's ranging from G series thru original Australian inch pattern, etc. Then Garands including original C and D model snipers, M1a, Hakims (straight and snipers), CETME Sport (pre-HK, not Century junk), etc , etc., etc. Can't forget the original AR-10 either, the one with the cocking ring under the handle. Have a FG-42 arriving soon. There's about, oh... 50 in all. So...I've got pretty much "whatever I want" after some thirty plus years of advanced collecting.
With that said, these are all specialists rifles designed to be used in combat in a purely military environment. Selecting one for "general purposes" in many cases limits you to carrying an overweight rifle that you cannot hunt with legally in many places, can't even own in others, that do not allow the variety of handloads to be used that a bolt gun permit, all so you can shoot up ammo faster in a world where that really is meaningless for the most part.
I appreciate my collection. I have several large safes filled. I have studied these designs and collected them for longer than many readers here have been alive.
I bring along my Scout Rifle. A real one. If I needed to sell all but one, this us what I would keep. When I leave on year long trips, which I do frequently, it's what I have with me.
You can get all the rifle you want for 99.9% of what you need in any of the good synthetic stocked bolt action .308's with a decent scope, good sling, and reliable back up sights. What it might lack is "cool factor". <shrugs>... That's sometimes a feature too. Less hassle from DNR, Cops, the works. If you want to go shoot herds of hogs, bring out a special rifle. That's not the "General" case for hunting.
Willie
.
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LebbenB
Member
Yup. I have an LWRCi REPR with a 20" upper receiver and a 3-10x Weaver and a 16" upper receiver with MI BUIS and an 1-4x Valdada. Works out pretty well.
On the 5.56 side of the house, I've got uppers in various lengths and configurations and calibers - One for home defense with an EoTech, one for "Semi-Precision" with a TA-01, one for deer/pig hunting in 300 BLK with a T-1.
The flexibility of the AR, regardless of caliber, is second to none.
jason41987
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you know.. lately ive been having a bit of an internal struggle with myself.. my biggest competition in debate has always been with myself.. i can see multiple sides of any story and its never so black and white.. unfortunately
the issue im having now is about .308 being the best "general purpose rifle" caliber.. its very useful, yes, but is it the best?.. imagine if society had a breakdown, riots maybe and you had your one general purpose rifle with you where you were staying and had to hunt for food.. does it really matter if its a 5.45, a 5.56, a .308? either one of these im fairly certain will regularly and reliably kill deer with the proper placement and some people hunt quite successfully with 75 grain rounds in 223.. if every round is meat on the table, then more ammo means more food, right?
so my real question is, do you still take a 308 for that added assurance, the added range you probably wont be able to reliably hit anyway due to certain environmental reasons, wind, brush, or maybe your scopes broken and youre using iron sights.. its hard to say and i dont have an answer to these questions because i think ANY of these calibers are equally suitable, just so long as practice the tactics that go with it
what i mean by this, if .308 is your GPR caliber, slower follow up shots but more range and energy are the characteristics, learn how to use that to your advantage, engage your target at a greater distance.. if youre hunting for example, youre less likely to be detected by the deer at great distances and in some regions you dont have much choice
if you have a smaller caliber like 5.45 or 5.56, you have more ammo, quicker follow up shots at a cost for power.. there are tactics you can practice to benefit from this..
bottom line is you can be effective with any of it, it comes down to what youre personally capable of doing and the areas you most want to practice with.. if youre trying to use an AK-74 as a sniper rifle or a .308 in close quarters then you probably wont be as efficient
the issue im having now is about .308 being the best "general purpose rifle" caliber.. its very useful, yes, but is it the best?.. imagine if society had a breakdown, riots maybe and you had your one general purpose rifle with you where you were staying and had to hunt for food.. does it really matter if its a 5.45, a 5.56, a .308? either one of these im fairly certain will regularly and reliably kill deer with the proper placement and some people hunt quite successfully with 75 grain rounds in 223.. if every round is meat on the table, then more ammo means more food, right?
so my real question is, do you still take a 308 for that added assurance, the added range you probably wont be able to reliably hit anyway due to certain environmental reasons, wind, brush, or maybe your scopes broken and youre using iron sights.. its hard to say and i dont have an answer to these questions because i think ANY of these calibers are equally suitable, just so long as practice the tactics that go with it
what i mean by this, if .308 is your GPR caliber, slower follow up shots but more range and energy are the characteristics, learn how to use that to your advantage, engage your target at a greater distance.. if youre hunting for example, youre less likely to be detected by the deer at great distances and in some regions you dont have much choice
if you have a smaller caliber like 5.45 or 5.56, you have more ammo, quicker follow up shots at a cost for power.. there are tactics you can practice to benefit from this..
bottom line is you can be effective with any of it, it comes down to what youre personally capable of doing and the areas you most want to practice with.. if youre trying to use an AK-74 as a sniper rifle or a .308 in close quarters then you probably wont be as efficient
jason41987, i agree to an extent, that most of those calibers will suffice. it matters more that you are aware of your rifle's and your own capabilities, and work within them to be successful.
i disagree that using a smaller round means more ammo. can you carry more with a smaller caliber? sure. but how much do you actually need to carry on your person. i can carry plenty of .308, (or my chosen 30-06) to do what needs done in all but the most extreme circumstances, wiisth no real detriment. just because i can carry 500 rounds of .22lr versus say 10 rounds of .30-06 and 12 rounds of .44 doesn't mean that i would choose to do so.
as for hunting i ended the rifle season on opening day with one single round from my 30-30. carry more 5.56 wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
again, most opinions on this stuff is shaped by ones own experiences and the ao they envision themselves working in.
this is also assuming that you have plenty of ammo on hand in your chosen caliber. 5.45 isn't exactly stocked on the shelves of hardware stores.
i disagree that using a smaller round means more ammo. can you carry more with a smaller caliber? sure. but how much do you actually need to carry on your person. i can carry plenty of .308, (or my chosen 30-06) to do what needs done in all but the most extreme circumstances, wiisth no real detriment. just because i can carry 500 rounds of .22lr versus say 10 rounds of .30-06 and 12 rounds of .44 doesn't mean that i would choose to do so.
as for hunting i ended the rifle season on opening day with one single round from my 30-30. carry more 5.56 wouldn't have made a bit of difference.
again, most opinions on this stuff is shaped by ones own experiences and the ao they envision themselves working in.
this is also assuming that you have plenty of ammo on hand in your chosen caliber. 5.45 isn't exactly stocked on the shelves of hardware stores.
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jimherb
Member
My suggestion would be a Remington 750 in .308. Light enough to schlep all day, good for security. Mag holds 5 rounds--but easily swapped if you are surrounded by hostile critters.
I think the VEPR in 308 is a rifle that is far too often overlooked.
If I had not went the FAL route I would be all over the VEPR as a GPR.
Thanks for sharing the eye candy Mac66.
The comparison of your 22in bbl M1A next to your AK shows clearly how a folding stock version could be very viable for storing it, and/or carrying it within tight places.
I would be very interested in your first hand opinions concerning the Ruger SR762......once you receive it, and have time to evaluate it.
It has several features that I'm interested in concerning a GPR.
1. Semiautomatic. ( I consider this to be the better type for general purpose, with bolt actions serving in the specialty roles, and for more specific purposes....... and strictly speaking about myself in this regard. As you have found with your bolt action rifle, I haven't found anything that I can do with a bolt action that I cant do better with a semiauto.)
2. Chrome lined bbl with threaded muzzle. ( My GPR has to be "can capable", and combined with it's adjustable/shut off gas system...looks promising.)
3. Military aperture iron sights. ( I gotta have both for a GPR)
4. Affordable and easy to find magazines. ( I understand that this rifle sells with 3 - 20rd p-mags.)
5. Plenty of rail up top IOT utilize PVS22/27's. ( A must have for my GPR, as it's legal where I'm from to hunt hogs at night, and I don't want NVS that must rely on artificallly produced IR filtered light.)
I could put together a similar rifle with an LRB Arms M25 receiver, but I don't think I could do it for the same amount of $$ that Ruger is asking for the 762SR......much less for free.
LebbenB: The modular aspect of a rifle such as the SR762 is a tempting one. Ruger does have separate uppers chambered in 5.56mm, so I would like to think that they will eventually come out with the same for it's big brother.
Demilled:..... Keep your FAL. I regret selling off my DSA Para now.
BTW..... Congrats once again concerning your 10-22 design Mac66
The comparison of your 22in bbl M1A next to your AK shows clearly how a folding stock version could be very viable for storing it, and/or carrying it within tight places.
I would be very interested in your first hand opinions concerning the Ruger SR762......once you receive it, and have time to evaluate it.
It has several features that I'm interested in concerning a GPR.
1. Semiautomatic. ( I consider this to be the better type for general purpose, with bolt actions serving in the specialty roles, and for more specific purposes....... and strictly speaking about myself in this regard. As you have found with your bolt action rifle, I haven't found anything that I can do with a bolt action that I cant do better with a semiauto.)
2. Chrome lined bbl with threaded muzzle. ( My GPR has to be "can capable", and combined with it's adjustable/shut off gas system...looks promising.)
3. Military aperture iron sights. ( I gotta have both for a GPR)
4. Affordable and easy to find magazines. ( I understand that this rifle sells with 3 - 20rd p-mags.)
5. Plenty of rail up top IOT utilize PVS22/27's. ( A must have for my GPR, as it's legal where I'm from to hunt hogs at night, and I don't want NVS that must rely on artificallly produced IR filtered light.)
I could put together a similar rifle with an LRB Arms M25 receiver, but I don't think I could do it for the same amount of $$ that Ruger is asking for the 762SR......much less for free.
LebbenB: The modular aspect of a rifle such as the SR762 is a tempting one. Ruger does have separate uppers chambered in 5.56mm, so I would like to think that they will eventually come out with the same for it's big brother.
Demilled:..... Keep your FAL. I regret selling off my DSA Para now.
BTW..... Congrats once again concerning your 10-22 design Mac66
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I have also used my rifle's iron sights for hunting. (Typically during the day, and inside the treeline after hogs)
Here is a few things I found out first hand regarding the use of iron sights for hunting.
The NM 2A rear sight aperture works well for use in open areas where little washout via a dark backdrop is a concern. Overall however, I prefer the std aperture concerning an 18.5in bbl M14 type for use as a hunting tool. ( I have used a few different rear sight apertures for hunting via the M14 off and on for a few decades now, but the Socom rear sight aperture is a very close second.
When I decided to start this specific M14 project to meet my requirements for a GPR, I had about 2 decades or so firsthand experience with using this type of rifle as a hunting tool up to that point. Between deployments, I managed to put in about 8 more yrs or so collecting the parts I wanted, and scrutinizing over which existing Norinco M14S would end up at it's heart.
Concerning the front sight chosen, I decided to go with the Smith enterprise Inc. (SEI) Gas Lock "hooded" front sight for my GPR.
There were a few tradeoffs concerning the choice, but after using it during hunts since it was built, the front sight did live up to my expectations as a secondary (back up to an optic) system, as well as a primary means to place hits on critters within my own effective range while using them.
I'm now comparing it to SEI's GLFS DT18 that currently resides on my LRB
Below pic compares the SEI gas lock hooded "HK" type front sight along with the Vortex direct connect flash hider next to the OEM castle nut front sight/flash hider assembly.
Here is a few things I found out first hand regarding the use of iron sights for hunting.
The NM 2A rear sight aperture works well for use in open areas where little washout via a dark backdrop is a concern. Overall however, I prefer the std aperture concerning an 18.5in bbl M14 type for use as a hunting tool. ( I have used a few different rear sight apertures for hunting via the M14 off and on for a few decades now, but the Socom rear sight aperture is a very close second.
When I decided to start this specific M14 project to meet my requirements for a GPR, I had about 2 decades or so firsthand experience with using this type of rifle as a hunting tool up to that point. Between deployments, I managed to put in about 8 more yrs or so collecting the parts I wanted, and scrutinizing over which existing Norinco M14S would end up at it's heart.
Concerning the front sight chosen, I decided to go with the Smith enterprise Inc. (SEI) Gas Lock "hooded" front sight for my GPR.
There were a few tradeoffs concerning the choice, but after using it during hunts since it was built, the front sight did live up to my expectations as a secondary (back up to an optic) system, as well as a primary means to place hits on critters within my own effective range while using them.
I'm now comparing it to SEI's GLFS DT18 that currently resides on my LRB
Below pic compares the SEI gas lock hooded "HK" type front sight along with the Vortex direct connect flash hider next to the OEM castle nut front sight/flash hider assembly.
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