If teachers could have guns, ....

[tokonoma]

Texas Rebel
I mentioned in my post that I teach in a mobile unit (trailer) not connected to the main building. I park beside my mobile unit. Thus (and without magic) I could very easily get to my car and arm myself. My point is that unless my mobile unit is particularly singled out, I could get to the weapon quickly without actually having to wear it concealed on my person.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

oh, ok that made sense then

 

[jmr40]

texas rebel, I have no illusions of being a hero and stopping a columbine type attack. But would like to legally keep a gun in my car at work as well. About 10 years ago a friend of mine was murdered with his own gun when he came home and interrupted a break in at his home. Having a gun in the car would have at least given him a chance.

 

[fantacmet]

In regards only to the people who support only ex military being armed. I agree with the other guy who says that military doesn't mean they are highly trained with firearms, some are and some arent'. However by the whole ex Military only mentality I should not be armed because I was born with a degenerative disease of my knees that barred me from Military service? I know I tried. I begged to ignore my knees, but nogo, my medical records were enough to get me DQ'd. But bercause of that I am not qualified to pack? By that mentality I would be dead right now, from a Russian kid who decided to take a pot shot at me because the friend I was walking with wouldn't buy him beer. I was carrying at that time, and when I drew that little punk ran like hell. What about my one son who wouldnot have a father and the other who would never have been born in the event of my death because I was not qualified to be armed because I had a medical issue that kept me out of the military.

Technically by the letter of the law here in Oregon, Teachers who have a CHL can be armed in class, and quite a few are. There have been no cases of a teacher shooting a student. A couple of teachers have been found out, through various investigations because any teacher found out to have a CHL is investigated by the school districts. Some are fine with the law while other districts deem themselves above the law. ORS 166.170 is QUITE CLEAR!

 

[Eric F]

jmr40

About 10 years ago a friend of mine was murdered with his own gun when he came home and interrupted a break in at his home.

but wait that cant happen
siglite

or their guns will be stolen and used against them are statistically and factually bankrupt

A gun in the car is better than nothing at all.

 

[Rudy Kohn]

Hey Eric F, that quote you attributed to siglite was actually mine.

My point was that a gun concealed on one's person is not often taken from his or her person and used against them, as those who oppose concealed carry (or self-armament of any kind) tend to say. I tried to figure out whether I should include the word "factually" or not. I decided to add the "statistically" to soften it. I'm sure you might be able to find a case where that has occurred, but I think the number of cases will be insignificant compared to the number of defensive uses of concealed weapons.

If you thought I meant a gun held in a completely different place could not be stolen and used against the owner, I am sorry I was unclear.

I was trying to reinforce the concept you state at the bottom of your previous post,

A gun in the car is better than nothing at all.

Similarly, a gun on your person (or, in my opinion, on the person of another law-abiding citizen) is better than a gun in the car.

 

[Eric F]

Similarly, a gun on your person (or, in my opinion, on the person of another law-abiding citizen) is better than a gun in the car.

I agree 100% however for for places like here in Va the law is clear a gun can be in the car on school property(with questionable legality) but not in the school. I can not openly suport felony activity. I do however suport the vcdl in their efforts to change rules. As far as the first part I will send you a PM.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

jmr, i wasn't even directing that at you. i understand wanting to have a weapon at all times, especially when returning home. i have thought about the exact scenario you mentioned. i think what would i do if.... and came up with i would wait outside with my cell phone and side arm and wait for the police. yes its my house, my belongings getting ripped off, but cops are trained to clear rooms and search for bad guys, so i would feel pretty silly getting killed while playing cop.

 

[RobXD9]

Original Poster: If teachers could have guns, ....

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If teachers could have guns, ....

I was on another forum and I read a signature that said, "If teachers could have guns, how many innocent kids would be alive today?"

On that forum I responded to the signature with my .02 cents worth. Here's what I said. What are your thoughts?


I just retired after teaching high school science classes, in a puble school, here in Columbus Ga, for 30 years. I don't think most teachers are equipped to handle a gun in a situation like I think you're talking about. We have been trained to teach, and that's a full time endeavor, in itself. In fact, I know that most of the ones I worked with would not want to be armed, we've discussed it around the lunch table on numerous occasions (especially, after a school shooting was in the news). The argument I heard most often was "What if I shot at the intruder and hit someone else instead, I'd be ruined - no, its just not worth the risk."

Oh yeah, I can see your logic of arming teachers, but I've known a LOT of teachers and the only ones I'd consider arming would be those out of the military, who have gun-experience, a skill for using it. That would be me, and me and my kind are in the minority among teachers. I would have had no problem carrying concealed, but I wouldn't want to walk around the class room with a gun on my hip.

However, in my 30 year career, I have never been in a situation where I needed to be armed. But then again, like many have said before me, if you have it and don't need it, that's good, but if you need it and don't have it - that's real bad.

Hack

Apples and oranges mate.

You make it out to sound like all teachers should have to carry guns. That's not that case at all.

Then you go on to say that you feel only those with "gun experience" should be allowed to carry.

Duh?

Did you think that just any teacher whose never held a weapon before should be told to strap one on?

That's the kind of double talk that only serves to confuse the real issue with RKBA.

The option to carry should be there for those law-abiding citizens to carry. That they happen to be teachers is no more relevant than a guy who carries who also happens to be a priest, electrician or store owner.

My wife has become deadly accurate with her draw stroke and shot placement. She carries every day of her life, everywhere she goes (or at least "legally" can be).

She's also a teacher. I somehow doubt that 8am Monday morning her skills and muscle memory go out the window.

As far as "what if I missed and hit somone else? I'd be over for sure."

In my personal opinion, teachers, administration and district admin. should be held criminally responsible if a mass shooting takes place on their campus and they fail to stop it.

From 8am - 3pm either A) They are absolutely responsible for the safety of my child. Or B) they are in NO WAY responsible for the safety of my child.

When it comes to the safety and security of my kids, there is no "part way."

Rob

 

[jmr40]

texas rebel, that is exactly what my friend did, except his gun was in the house. He came home and saw a strange car in the driveway and called 911 from his cell phone and blocked his driveway It is a rural area with a long driveway.

The thug came out the back door and snuck up behind him and shot him through the back window of his truck in order to escape. He was caught.

Just to add I was not offended by your post, just pointing out a valid reason for keeping a gun in my vehicle even if I am not allowed to keep it on my person

 

[Goet]

Teacher DO carry guns.

Wouldn't enter my class without it.

 

[texas_rebel_1980]

jmr, sorry about your friend. it is thugs like that that drove me to get my chl. i carry my gun everywhere i go. if i can't take it in someplace i avoid it if possible. if not there is a sweet little hiding place in my truck that a snub .38 fits, my xd can't even think about fitting in that little cubbie hole. so i always have a gun when i come home.

i pray that someday the government in the state of texas removes their collective head from the posterior orifice and allows those of us who have jumped through the legal hoops to get a chl will allow us to carry any where we go. schools, polling places, bars, etc. if i am the designated driver, why should i not be allowed to carry? touch alcohol and get caught with a gun, whoa brother. that is acceptable to me. be willing and able to carry a gun on campus, let the law allow it.

i have heard/read rumours out state is considering allowing it on college campus in the next legislative session but i won't hold my breath. governor perry has stated he would be for it, so all we gotta do is get it to his desk,. i say it should be extended to all school campuses. after all, the only people who would be legally able to carry a gun at a high school would be teachers! the thugs and mass killers don't need no stinkin' licenses.

 

[siglite]

So you are saying you would drop your kid off to a daycare with folks you dont know just because they have guns right?

Just because they have guns? Huh? I'm not advocating requiring teachers to carry. But I see no reason at all to deny them their right. And, god forbid my child be in the care of a law abiding background checked citizen with the ability to stop evil, should evil drop by.

I fail to understand how many times I have to say I suport ccw and gun ownership to you. why dont you get that gun ownership and who watches my child has little to do with each other. Its more an issue of what kind of person watches my child.

What you fail to understand, is that the arguments you're using against teachers carrying are the very same arguments the gun grabbers use every single day in an attempt to strip all of our rights to carry. To use those arguements, and claim to be pro ccw is certainly mind boggling to me.

I guess if you dont care for your your childs safety around guns your pro gun and if you do care for your childs safety around guns you are an anti.

Because I believe in everyone's inalienable right to self defense, now I don't care about my child's safety around guns? From this statement of yours, it is easy to infer that guns are unsafe. And those that carry them are a threat to your child. You ring hoplophobic. And anti. Yes.

 

[Eric F]

What you fail to understand, is that the arguments you're using against teachers carrying

Well see I am not arguing that teachers should not carry!

WHATS YOUR PROBLEM CAN YOU NOT READ!

all of the above is the same logic you try to use against me.

siglite You just dont get it and can call me anti all you want your passive agressive behavior can not be reasoned with but I am not against teacher ccw in fact I go so far to legalize teacher carry that I have contacted the vcdl to see how I can help not just with this but also with ccw in abc on resturants. So I will "cary" on(pun intended) and raise my child as I want. But rest asured I am not an anti as you make me out to be.

I have grone tired of this endless bickering with you and wish you the best in your efforts.

 

[bogie]

Looks like we have the War of the Blithering Geniuses going on...

With possible attempts to derail the discussion into the realm of the Bad Student Union Debate...

I do not see how teachers are different from any other people. If a teacher is qualified and trained to carry a firearm, that works for me.

And anyone who thinks that the plan involves just handing out guns in the teacher's lounge... well, you've probably been hanging out with too many folks who don't know squat about firearms, and may actually be a member of that group yourself. It's time for you to go outside, and wait for that big NRA truck to pull up, so that the Gun Lobby can start handing out free saturday night specials to the third graders...

 

[Just Jim]

Man this thread has gone on like the energizer bunny I seem to remember in class the teachers said "the pen was mightier than the sword", heck they don't need guns with all the pens in those places

jj

 

[theotherwaldo]

If teachers could have guns... I might still be a teacher!

Instead, I'm a children's librarian. I get paid less, I don't get my summers off, but I get to help people that want to learn.

-And I don't have to join a union.

-And I can CC!

-And shame upon anyone that would trust their children to anyone that they wouldn't trust with a gun!

 

[stellarpod]

All discussions about a conceal-carrying licensed person being available to save lives of others aside, it is actually quite simple:

If you believe a person has a right to defend one's self, including with the use of a firearm, then it is simply wrong to deny that right in a school environment. Likewise, if the state defines the parameters by which a person is deemed fit and worthy, entrusted with the appropriate certification to carry a concealed weapon, how can that state then claim that that person is any less capable simply because he/she crossed the threshold of a school?

There is no room for debate on this issue - at least among the intellectually honest. You are either qualified to carry concealed or you are not. It is not about location, it is about simple liberty and the sanctity of life itself.

I would remind everyone that this is not simply an issue for teachers. On college campuses everywhere, licensed students and support staff are also denied this most basic of rights, the right to defend one's self against those who would try to do harm.

stellarpod

 

[CNYCacher]

We call for an end to prohibiting teachers carrying arms.
We don't want to arm teachers.

There is a big difference and you missed it.

 

[jrfoxx]

Technically by the letter of the law here in Oregon, Teachers who have a CHL can be armed in class, and quite a few are. There have been no cases of a teacher shooting a student.

Exactly.I have carried into my daughters school plenty of times, and I have managed to not shoot anyone either.OR (and Utah, I believe) are perfect examples of how allowing anyone with a CHL to carry in in school's, and even bars, is not going to cause gunfights and blood in the streets. I have not heard of a single shooting in a school (nor have I heard of someones gun getting lost/stole/used against them) or bar anywhere in the entire state that was a committed by a CHL holder.If it works, and is safe here (again, andin Utah I belive), theres no reason to think it will be any different anywhere else.

Carrying a gun in a school, by anyone, is no more or less safe than doing it in Wal-mart, a resteraunt, etc

 

[another okie]

I guess this puts what I was saying in a more politically correct form.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,358179,00.html

"The gender gap exists on various issues. The major one is the issue of smaller government and lower taxes, which is a much higher priority for men than for women. This is seen in divergent attitudes held by men and women on many separate issues.

Women were much more opposed to the 1996 federal welfare reforms, which mandated time limits for receiving welfare and imposed some work requirements on welfare recipients.

Women are also more supportive of Medicare, Social Security and educational expenditures.

Studies show that women are generally more risk-averse than men. This could be why they are more supportive of government programs to ensure against certain risks in life.
Women's average incomes are also slightly lower and less likely to vary over time, which gives single women an incentive to prefer more progressive income taxes."