Optical Serenity
Member
Good thread. I often tell people to be aware of where they are going and WHY they are going there...more often than I tell them NOT to go certain places.
If you feel like you need to carry a gun in order to go there...don't go there.
- Thread starter The Real Hawkeye
- Start date
- Status
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
xrayboy...Relax. He wasn't banned. Just a short cool-off period. It's been lifted.
xrayboy...Relax. He wasn't banned. Just a short cool-off period. It's been lifted.
gulogulo1970
Member
Yes, it is true sometimes. This is a use your head type of thing.
There are places in Dallas and Fort Worth that I'm not going, armed or not. And if I know for a fact, I will need my gun if I go to "X" tonight well I'll pass and see if there is a game on instead.
There are places in Dallas and Fort Worth that I'm not going, armed or not. And if I know for a fact, I will need my gun if I go to "X" tonight well I'll pass and see if there is a game on instead.
ambush
Member
Most places I work, I feel I need to carry (Newark, Jersey City, Camden, Perth Amboy, etc.). I live in NJ...tough break. All I can do is run away. Thank you Mr. Legislator
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Head Thing
Quote:
>Yes, it is true sometimes. This is a use your head type of thing.
There are places in Dallas and Fort Worth that I'm not going, armed or not. And if I know for a fact, I will need my gun if I go to "X" tonight well I'll pass and see if there is a game on instead.<
Yes. Exactly. If I HAVE to go...I go. If I don't...I don't. Not tryin' to dictate. Not tryin' to tell YOU not to go. Just a sane observation from one who had to learn most of life's lessons the hard way...and damn lucky to have survived it.
Quote:
>Yes, it is true sometimes. This is a use your head type of thing.
There are places in Dallas and Fort Worth that I'm not going, armed or not. And if I know for a fact, I will need my gun if I go to "X" tonight well I'll pass and see if there is a game on instead.<
Yes. Exactly. If I HAVE to go...I go. If I don't...I don't. Not tryin' to dictate. Not tryin' to tell YOU not to go. Just a sane observation from one who had to learn most of life's lessons the hard way...and damn lucky to have survived it.
coylh
Member
1911Tuner, did you remove The Real Hawkeye's ability to post messages because of this thread?
Sierramistbush
Member
sadly his posting ability was closed off, pretty screwed up...I know...but i'm sure 1911Tuner will get what he deserves when everyone complains about the unfair ban. This forum is around so members can voice opinions, no so they can be muffled out b/c some moderator doesn't agree with what is being said.
SoCalShooter
Member
Its really simple, you cant avoid life, bad stuff happens, just be prepared. hence the necessity for a gun.
But I do believe that if a situation can be avoided, then you should but if not then just be prepared.
But I do believe that if a situation can be avoided, then you should but if not then just be prepared.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Hawk
Sierra...I didn't screw up his posting abilities. The temp ban has been lifted.
It happened because he started a fight over one of my posts on another thread. When I clarified my point, he ran over here and started another thread on the same ol' same. Waste of expensive bandwidth when he could have simply continued to argue his points on the original thread.
Sierra...I didn't screw up his posting abilities. The temp ban has been lifted.
It happened because he started a fight over one of my posts on another thread. When I clarified my point, he ran over here and started another thread on the same ol' same. Waste of expensive bandwidth when he could have simply continued to argue his points on the original thread.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Thanks for lifting the ban, Tuner, but you have it wrong. When I read your slogan on the other thread, I responded to it there. Then, as often happens, it occurred to me that the particular issue deserves a thread of its own. I didn't wait for your response before starting a new thread. Most of my thread starts happen exactly that way. I think a lot of people operate like that. Wasn't trying to "start a fight." I still think my statement was very mild, and did not sound angry at anyone, or disrespectful. Would have been happy to hear your response to it. Just thought I came up with an interesting thread starter, that's all. I haven't even gotten back to that other thread yet, as the ban was just lifted, so I haven't yet read your response to my statement about the slogan in question yet. Lot to read here first.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Two different situations with two different actions. A man was killed several years ago at a bar I sometimes patronized. I found a different bar to patronize.
I lived in Midtown in Atlanta for a few months. A jogger was raped at a stadium within sight of my apartment. I'd hear of muggings on a frequent basis. I went for nightly walks. I also looked for another neighborhood to move to.
I go armed 24/7. I avoid places where I cannot go legally armed. I also avoid places where I am likely to meet trouble.
Arming myself is a part of being prepared. Avoiding likely trouble spots is also a part of being prepared. I once had a job that made running into trouble a very probable event. After a decade or so, I began to react badly to this. I changed careers. It was a simple decision. If things kept on as they were going then one of two things were likely to happen-I was either going to be killed by someone or I was going to kill someone in a situation where it would be unlikely I could successfully claim justifiable homicide. I got out of that line of work. Best decision I ever made.
I lived in Midtown in Atlanta for a few months. A jogger was raped at a stadium within sight of my apartment. I'd hear of muggings on a frequent basis. I went for nightly walks. I also looked for another neighborhood to move to.
I go armed 24/7. I avoid places where I cannot go legally armed. I also avoid places where I am likely to meet trouble.
Arming myself is a part of being prepared. Avoiding likely trouble spots is also a part of being prepared. I once had a job that made running into trouble a very probable event. After a decade or so, I began to react badly to this. I changed careers. It was a simple decision. If things kept on as they were going then one of two things were likely to happen-I was either going to be killed by someone or I was going to kill someone in a situation where it would be unlikely I could successfully claim justifiable homicide. I got out of that line of work. Best decision I ever made.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re:
Howdy Hawk, and wb. It was a little cooling off period before it all went south. If we'd done it on the original thread, we could have fought to a draw and had drinks afterward.
It's not exactly a slogan...just a little sane advice from a guy who earned it.
djpullen...We don't side hard left and we don't pander to the antis. We try in the most gentle, sensitive way that we can to remind one and all that what you write on a public forum can come back and bite you hard should you find yourself faced with the awful decision to cross the line and pull the trigger.
For every active member we have, we probably have 100 lurkers...and all of'em aren't our friends.
Howdy Hawk, and wb. It was a little cooling off period before it all went south. If we'd done it on the original thread, we could have fought to a draw and had drinks afterward.
It's not exactly a slogan...just a little sane advice from a guy who earned it.
djpullen...We don't side hard left and we don't pander to the antis. We try in the most gentle, sensitive way that we can to remind one and all that what you write on a public forum can come back and bite you hard should you find yourself faced with the awful decision to cross the line and pull the trigger.
For every active member we have, we probably have 100 lurkers...and all of'em aren't our friends.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Tuner, I have read your explanation, and the idea behind your slogan (as I call it, which is not a put down, by the way) is a good one, i.e., if you feel it's highly probable you are walking into a bad situation where you will need your gun, don't go there. I agree with that sentiment, in most cases. My problem is not with the idea you meant to express, but with the slogan itself. The slogan, if taken literally, will eventually keep you locked in your home. Just because you feel the need to carry to go some place and feel safer is not a good reason not to go. I feel the need to carry everywhere I go, so if I followed your slogan literally, I would just not go anywhere. I think the slogan needs work to make it match up better with what you meant to say, is all. Again, not trying to start a fight. Just trying to express an idea that I think worth a discussion.
To all of you who are worried about pleasing or not upsetting the antis, I'll buy whoever converts Rosie O to our side a cold case of beer of their choice. I'm not worried about losing this one because Rosie and her ilk will never be converted. Being spineless when it comes to your principles is not a virtue. Again, if GW's legacy is going to be a bad one (really starting to look that way) it will be because he worried too much about what the left thinks of him and pandering to him while ignoring his base. Concessions and pandering are nothing more than a sign of weakness to the antis. Why give them the bait. When gun owners start saying "we don't need uzi's", do you think the antis will be satisfied by just banning uzis or will they ban uzis and your deer rifle while they are at it?
As far as the political leanings of moderators on this board, I haven't seen the first post from one of them that would indicate that any of them side with the right. This is a gun forum and most gun owners are passionate about RKBA and will express that passion without worrying whether Rosie O or others are reading their posts. That is a fact for many who post here. If that goes against the mission statement of THR and won't be tolerated on here, then why not close this thing down because their will be no way to keep passionate gun owners from expressing "non anti friendly" viewpoints.
As far as the political leanings of moderators on this board, I haven't seen the first post from one of them that would indicate that any of them side with the right. This is a gun forum and most gun owners are passionate about RKBA and will express that passion without worrying whether Rosie O or others are reading their posts. That is a fact for many who post here. If that goes against the mission statement of THR and won't be tolerated on here, then why not close this thing down because their will be no way to keep passionate gun owners from expressing "non anti friendly" viewpoints.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Its not a tired old slogan. Many folks, including professionals, agree with it.
Stay out of known trouble spots. You know exactly what he meant, Hawkeye. If you feel you need a gun to go there, as in . . . you expect trouble and are going there against your better judgement because being armed will enable you to deal with it . . . yeah, stay away from that place.
The Real Hawkeye
member
Bullfrog, I agree with your explanation of what was meant by the slogan, but I don't think that's what the slogan actually says. It is most definitely not true that if you feel the need to carry to go somewhere, you shouldn't go there. As I said, I feel the need to carry everywhere I go. So, again, my problem is with the slogan, not what you and Tuner mean by it. And, no, I had not realized that Tuner meant something other than what the slogan seems to say. I was not being coy.
I don't know why people want to keep perpetuating the "hero ccw'er" thing on here. What, it must only be 50 times a day that we hear about some hot head mall ninja blowing some granny away because she looked at him funny. Talk is one thing and reality is another. You are only helping to perpetuate this myth that there are unstable militia types just going around begging for a chance to shoot em up. I'm sure some anti is reading this garbage and saying to himself, "see, even gun owners think that average Joe Blow shouldn't be carrying a gun because he is a mall ninja just looking for trouble." Whose side are you people on?
I carry on occasion and there is one city that I won't go to without one. I hope I never have to use it but we had a saying while I was in the Clinton Army in Bosnia (what a waste of 6 months of my life) that it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. Our rules of engagement specifically stated that if we felt that our life was in danger that we were authorized the use of deadly force. We knew damn well that if we didn't have a bullet lodged in our bodies that we would be in Leavenworth if we fired on someone. But you know what? Out of the 6 months that I was there, I only heard of one person discharging his weapon during a riot where the serbs were throwing molitov cocktails at our Bradleys. I would say that he was within his rules of engagement but his CO took his weapon from him and he got in deep trouble over the incident. But no one went around like Mall Ninjas just waiting to shoot someone. Kind of flies in the face of your worthless stereotype don't you think?
I carry on occasion and there is one city that I won't go to without one. I hope I never have to use it but we had a saying while I was in the Clinton Army in Bosnia (what a waste of 6 months of my life) that it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. Our rules of engagement specifically stated that if we felt that our life was in danger that we were authorized the use of deadly force. We knew damn well that if we didn't have a bullet lodged in our bodies that we would be in Leavenworth if we fired on someone. But you know what? Out of the 6 months that I was there, I only heard of one person discharging his weapon during a riot where the serbs were throwing molitov cocktails at our Bradleys. I would say that he was within his rules of engagement but his CO took his weapon from him and he got in deep trouble over the incident. But no one went around like Mall Ninjas just waiting to shoot someone. Kind of flies in the face of your worthless stereotype don't you think?
If you feel the need to buckle up, don't drive your car.
If you feel the need for a fire extinguisher, move to another house.
If you feel the need for an alarm, move yet again.
If you feel the need for a helmet, don't drive a bike.
If you feel unsafe in your house, hide in the cellar. Oops, forgot the radon gas down there ...
If you feel the need for a fire extinguisher, move to another house.
If you feel the need for an alarm, move yet again.
If you feel the need for a helmet, don't drive a bike.
If you feel unsafe in your house, hide in the cellar. Oops, forgot the radon gas down there ...
Autolycus
Member
This could be said about sex...
if you need protection dont sleep with her. Not going to happen.
I am sure others have already illustrated that it is better to have it and not need it.
if you need protection dont sleep with her. Not going to happen.
I am sure others have already illustrated that it is better to have it and not need it.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Everyone here knows exactly what 1911TUNER means but you are being pig headed for some reason. Hey Hawkeye, IMO 1911TUNER meant exactly what BullfrogKen explained to you. Just because you refuse to believe that doesn't make it so.
If everyone here stopped to think about it you would agree but you are being thick headed. You are acting like, "I can go there so I will naa naaa naaa"
That "slogan" means: If you wouldn't go there unarmed then don't go there just because you are armed!!! BUT as a matter of choice, not necessity. It has nothing to do with driving a car, alarms, helmets and radon gas.
rufolf said: "If you feel the need to buckle up, don't drive your car." NO, if you buckle up while driving you are safer just like if you avoid "hot spots" you have no reason to go to you are safer.
rudolf said: "If you feel the need for a fire extinguisher, move to another house." NO, if a fire starts you can put it out just like if you are armed you can protect yourself. You wouldn't start a fire just because you have a fire extinguisher so don't go somewhere for no good reason you may need to use your gun just because you have a gun.
Nothing personal people, just my thoughts on the subject.
If everyone here stopped to think about it you would agree but you are being thick headed. You are acting like, "I can go there so I will naa naaa naaa"
That "slogan" means: If you wouldn't go there unarmed then don't go there just because you are armed!!! BUT as a matter of choice, not necessity. It has nothing to do with driving a car, alarms, helmets and radon gas.
rufolf said: "If you feel the need to buckle up, don't drive your car." NO, if you buckle up while driving you are safer just like if you avoid "hot spots" you have no reason to go to you are safer.
rudolf said: "If you feel the need for a fire extinguisher, move to another house." NO, if a fire starts you can put it out just like if you are armed you can protect yourself. You wouldn't start a fire just because you have a fire extinguisher so don't go somewhere for no good reason you may need to use your gun just because you have a gun.
Nothing personal people, just my thoughts on the subject.
Autolycus
Member
Are we not free? Should I not be able to walk freely through my own city and country? What if a meth dealer moves in across the street, should I move? I was here first. I am sorry but the idea that I should avoid a place because there is a chance at trouble strikes me as un-American.
And besides... all the places where trouble is likely to happen are the fun places.
And besides... all the places where trouble is likely to happen are the fun places.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Reflections
Hawk, I think we're on the same page now. It wasn't that you disagreed with my post. That happens to me a lot, and I enjoy a good scrap as much as anybody. It was more the way you attacked the argument...and again...it's neither a directive nor a slogan. Call it fatherly advice if you want,
even though I'm not your father.
Neither am I pandering to the antis...nor do any of the staff here. I...we...are simply trying to keep from giving them fuel with which to undermine our right to keep and bear arms for the purposes of self-defense.
Far too often, I hear: "I'll by God go anywhere I wanna go. I've got a gun!"
That's easy to misinterpret as: "I'm ready, willin' and able to shoot some scumbag who looks at me crosseyed."
"They" love to read things like that. It only strengthens their beliefs, and spurs them on to scream for an outright ban. "Blood will run in the streets!"
Also would like to remind one and all that whatever you post on a public forum can come back in a bad way. Look at what happened to the kid who posted pictures of himself on a MySpace site playing with guns. The cops who went to arrest him for strongarm robbery were on a razor's edge...and when he blinked...he was shot dead...and it was largely because of those pictures. We here at THR are working hard to promote responsible gun ownership, and trying to avoid the "Cowboy" image that the antis already have for we who are gun owners and enthusiasts. When somebody posts
somethin' on the lines of: "If that scum had tried to steal MY stereo, I'd have shot him down like a dog!" That person is hurting us with that display of what is very likely false bravado...and if he/she does infact become involved in a justified shooting, they can bet that those words will come back to haunt them in a court of law.
Finally...for Sierramistbush...please read this carefully and understand it.
If you shoot another person in a 101% justifiable manner...both legally and morally...anywhere outside of your residence...you will be arrested. You'll be cuffed and you'll take a ride in a police car. You'll appear before a magistrate and locked up. You'll go before a judge to enter a plea, and if you don't have the money to post bail, you'll wait in county lockup until your trial date...which can take some time. You'll need a good lawyer, and you'll need about 15 or 20 thousand dollars...up front...and that may only be the down payment. If the prosecutor reads what you've posted here, he or she will use it against you...and don't think that you can hide behind your alias username or a web-based E-mail address. You can't.
You will not have the collective support of the community, nor will you have your legal expenses paid unless your family has the resources to do it. You'll have very little support, outside of your immediate family and close friends...and even those friends will figure that it's YOUR problem...and your problem can turn into a nightmare of huge proportions...and the outcome can turn on a phrase. Just like my advice that started this whole thing..."Don't say the wrong thing."
The old lawyer's dictum: "Say it. Don't write it." is sound advice.
Hawk, I think we're on the same page now. It wasn't that you disagreed with my post. That happens to me a lot, and I enjoy a good scrap as much as anybody. It was more the way you attacked the argument...and again...it's neither a directive nor a slogan. Call it fatherly advice if you want,
even though I'm not your father.
Neither am I pandering to the antis...nor do any of the staff here. I...we...are simply trying to keep from giving them fuel with which to undermine our right to keep and bear arms for the purposes of self-defense.
Far too often, I hear: "I'll by God go anywhere I wanna go. I've got a gun!"
That's easy to misinterpret as: "I'm ready, willin' and able to shoot some scumbag who looks at me crosseyed."
"They" love to read things like that. It only strengthens their beliefs, and spurs them on to scream for an outright ban. "Blood will run in the streets!"
Also would like to remind one and all that whatever you post on a public forum can come back in a bad way. Look at what happened to the kid who posted pictures of himself on a MySpace site playing with guns. The cops who went to arrest him for strongarm robbery were on a razor's edge...and when he blinked...he was shot dead...and it was largely because of those pictures. We here at THR are working hard to promote responsible gun ownership, and trying to avoid the "Cowboy" image that the antis already have for we who are gun owners and enthusiasts. When somebody posts
somethin' on the lines of: "If that scum had tried to steal MY stereo, I'd have shot him down like a dog!" That person is hurting us with that display of what is very likely false bravado...and if he/she does infact become involved in a justified shooting, they can bet that those words will come back to haunt them in a court of law.
Finally...for Sierramistbush...please read this carefully and understand it.
If you shoot another person in a 101% justifiable manner...both legally and morally...anywhere outside of your residence...you will be arrested. You'll be cuffed and you'll take a ride in a police car. You'll appear before a magistrate and locked up. You'll go before a judge to enter a plea, and if you don't have the money to post bail, you'll wait in county lockup until your trial date...which can take some time. You'll need a good lawyer, and you'll need about 15 or 20 thousand dollars...up front...and that may only be the down payment. If the prosecutor reads what you've posted here, he or she will use it against you...and don't think that you can hide behind your alias username or a web-based E-mail address. You can't.
You will not have the collective support of the community, nor will you have your legal expenses paid unless your family has the resources to do it. You'll have very little support, outside of your immediate family and close friends...and even those friends will figure that it's YOUR problem...and your problem can turn into a nightmare of huge proportions...and the outcome can turn on a phrase. Just like my advice that started this whole thing..."Don't say the wrong thing."
The old lawyer's dictum: "Say it. Don't write it." is sound advice.
And don’t forget about the civil suit that will be sure to follow by the family of the person you killed. Even if found innocent of all charges, you can still lose a civil suite. That will cost you another large lump of cash just to defend, and if found guilty in the civil case, you are likely to lose everything.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Civil Suit
Yep. Also a distinct possibility.
Maybe a simpler analogy would be appropriate:
Guy walks into a doctor's office...moves his arm up and down and sez:
"Doc...it hurts when I do this!"
Doc sez:
"Don't do that."
"Promise me son, not to do the things I've done. Walk away from trouble when ya can. It don't mean you're weak if ya turn the other cheek, and son, you're old enough to understand...that you don't have to fight to be a man."
--Kenny Rogers-- (Coward of the County)
Yep. Also a distinct possibility.
Maybe a simpler analogy would be appropriate:
Guy walks into a doctor's office...moves his arm up and down and sez:
"Doc...it hurts when I do this!"
Doc sez:
"Don't do that."
"Promise me son, not to do the things I've done. Walk away from trouble when ya can. It don't mean you're weak if ya turn the other cheek, and son, you're old enough to understand...that you don't have to fight to be a man."
--Kenny Rogers-- (Coward of the County)
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
