If you were going to buy a big bore lever action......

[Grayrock]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/806511538

 

[earlthegoat2]

If you want a Marlin in stainless then the 1895 GS is the least expensive option and can be had for around 7-750. Stainless 1894s are more uncommon and cost significantly more.

The all weather Henry 44s go for around 800 I believe. Not sure on the 45-70s.

Since your a reloader, I think the 1895GS is a no brainer.

That said, I prefer .44 Mag. Even the humble Rossi R92 can be had in stainless for about 500 used. They are hard to find new and I wouldn’t pay the 650+ they go for. The Rossi 44 can be hot rodded up to quite powerfully as long as you don’t run into feeding issues from CAL of more powerful rounds. Of course the same could be said of the Marlin.

 

[Skylerbone]

My personal choice would be .44 Mag as a good mid-size game hunter. If you plan to hunt grizzly, of course you should consider going bigger, but honestly how many people prep for attacks that never happen and squander money better spent on practical arms. A lot of people live in big bear country. Few have to shoot it out with bruins while camping.

Your use, your decision.

 

[Old Stumpy]

I had 4 different 45-70 dating from 1976 up until a few years ago. They are over rated. I still have the Marlin 44 mag. There is nothing a 45-70 will do that a 44 mag won't do until you get into the "Nuclear" 45-70 loads.

Actually, that isn't true.
According to Hodgdon data:
- a 20" barrel .44 magnum carbine load averages around 1450 FPS with a 300 grain XTP bullet and 38,000 CUP.
- a 24" barrel .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield class load averages around 1500 FPS with a 405 grain lead bullet and only 17,000 CUP.
(It's a weak load and is still more powerful than the .44 magnum load.)
- a 24" barrel .45-70 lever action load averages around 2100 FPS with a 300 grain JHP bullet and 35,000 CUP.
(It's certainly not a "nuclear" load, but much more powerful than the .44 magnum.)

And, even the 1870s Government 70 grain black powder load with a 405 grain lead bullet going 1350 FPS would punch through heavy brush better than the 300 grain .44 magnum load, and also kill moose, elk, or even bison well.

 

[someguy2800]

Actually, that isn't true.
According to Hodgdon data:
- a 20" barrel .44 magnum carbine load averages around 1450 FPS with a 300 grain XTP bullet and 38,000 CUP.
- a 24" barrel .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield class load averages around 1500 FPS with a 405 grain lead bullet and only 17,000 CUP.
(It's a weak load and is still more powerful than the .44 magnum load.)

I believe he was referring to what the two would be suitable for rather than what bullets they can shoot. A 300+ grain hard cast flat point or even a hard jacketed bullet like the 300 grain Sierra JSP is suitable for all North American game, it’s been done many times over with 44 revolvers. So that begs the question why do you need a 10 lb hammer when a 5 lb hammer does every job you have to do? I guess my only answer to that would be a slight bit more stopping power, and more effective range. A 45-70 with marlin level loads will shoot considerably flatter and adds quite a bit of effective ethical hunting range.

As I said before, I think the 444 marlin actually strikes the best balance of the 3, but it’s a lot easier to find 45-70’s

 

[Armored farmer]

If I were in your shoes, I would choose a .44mag in anticipation of a .44mag revolver

 

[Old Stumpy]

I believe he was referring to what the two would be suitable for rather than what bullets they can shoot. A 300+ grain hard cast flat point or even a hard jacketed bullet like the 300 grain Sierra JSP is suitable for all North American game, it’s been done many times over with 44 revolvers. So that begs the question why do you need a 10 lb hammer when a 5 lb hammer does every job you have to do? I guess my only answer to that would be a slight bit more stopping power, and more effective range.

While all North American game may have been killed with a Sierra 300 grain JSP from a .44 magnum carbine, it doesn't mean that it is capable of killing elk or moose or larger bears humanely in the hands of the average hunter. Even that weak heavy 405 grain .45-70 bullet at a higher velocity will penetrate more deeply and do more damage with larger game and kill them more humanely, especially with less than perfect shots.
It's kind of like the argument that a .44-40 will kill whitetail deer just as effectively at 50 yards, as will a .30-30 or a .44 magnum.
It will, but only if it penetrates deeply into the heart lung area and destroys heart and lung tissue. With a less than perfect shot, it won't kill humanely, and you would be tracking a wounded deer. The .30-30 or .44 magnum, on the other hand, will cause more damage and bleeding with a less than perfect shot, and kill the deer more humanely.

 

[PapaG]

Since, like always, I didn't answer the question but rambled, I recommend the new Marlin 44, in spite of the Rem stigma, and the safety, because of the cut rifling and proper twist. Sorry, Remlin haters.

Memory fart. Conflated a Brian Pearce article about getting Marlin to speed up the twist into reality. I'm sorry. Not, if I offended anyone politically sorry but wish I'd proofread sorry.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Folks shoot more than deer.

Can't be that many bison hunters left.

There are large numbers of elk where I live also. I know taking one with a 44 magnum is certainly doable, but there’s no denying a 45-70 would be a better choice for a 600+ lb animal. And really that would be a mid sized cow. 800 lb bulls are seen regularly in my day to day life and I have walked into the middle of a heard multiple times. Had them on three sides of me and one time I got within 10 yards of a cow. A lever gun would’ve been great in that scenario.

Though if elk hunting I’d more likely choose a scoped bolt action. Deer are much easier to get close to than elk.

 

[someguy2800]

While all North American game may have been killed with a Sierra 300 grain JSP from a .44 magnum carbine, it doesn't mean that it is capable of killing elk or moose or larger bears humanely in the hands of the average hunter. Even that weak heavy 405 grain .45-70 bullet at a higher velocity will penetrate more deeply and do more damage with larger game and kill them more humanely, especially with less than perfect shots.
It's kind of like the argument that a .44-40 will kill whitetail deer just as effectively at 50 yards, as will a .30-30 or a .44 magnum.
It will, but only if it penetrates deeply into the heart lung area and destroys heart and lung tissue. With a less than perfect shot, it won't kill humanely, and you would be tracking a wounded deer. The .30-30 or .44 magnum, on the other hand, will cause more damage and bleeding with a less than perfect shot, and kill the deer more humanely.

I don't agree. Both of those properly loaded will provide through and through penetration. Neither are lacking in that department. If you hit the vitals you will have a dead animal with both, if you miss the vitals you will not have a dead animal with both. I do agree with you, the 45-70 is a superior choice, that's why I bought one, but I would still argue that both are suitable for all north american game within their range limitation. The range limitation is where I feel the real difference lies.

 

[rdnktrkr]

45-70 is my "big" cartridge of choice, I load it with 405gr and it has never failed me dropping dear or ringing steel. I have a 44mag pistol and sometimes take both with me while walking in the woods and have never thought about wanting both to be chambered alike

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

Just for reference, I get a chronographed 1900 fps out of a 16” barrel with 300 grain xtp mags with the .454. A bit of a better competitor than the .44. Not as much as a custom 45-70 load, but can compare to “trapdoor” loads.

 

[BigBore44]

Have both. Hunt with both. The 44 gets the nod for deer hunting. The 45-70 when I’m going where big pigs live. A neighbor riding mules on the property I hunt killed a 450lb boar two weeks ago. Could I kill a big pig with my 44? Yes. But I know what my 45/70 has done on them. Bang, flop. It speaks with authority. Both are handloaded for. And both are way cheaper to shoot with reloads than factory loads. Even with premium components loaded for true performance. If I were to go after elk, it would definitely be my 45-70.

Mine aren’t stainless. They are both older JM blued models.

 

[someguy2800]

Just for reference, I get a chronographed 1900 fps out of a 16” barrel with 300 grain xtp mags with the .454. A bit of a better competitor than the .44. Not as much as a custom 45-70 load, but can compare to “trapdoor” loads.

That is stout!

 

[earlthegoat2]

I hesitated to bring this up before because it is not relavant to the topic the OP wants discussed but since 30-30s, 454s and .444s are being brought up...

First of all, I am in the minority here with this opinion but why not a Remington 7600 pump rifle in 30-06 or 35 Whelen?

These are some of my favorite rifles. I know they are not “in” right now (or ever?) but they have relevance. There is a silent bunch of hunters out there who use these rifles season after season to take all sorts of game from smallish sheep and antelope all the way up to big bears.

Loaded up with 200 grain Partitions or A-Frames they are a serious contender to the 45-70 with more versatility, faster follow up shots, as well as better ammo availability especially when compared to the hot rod 45-70 loads which are not generally on store shelves with any reliability. Since you hand load this point is a bit moot but still a point nonetheless.

I’m with BigBore on the .44 Mag. I’ll use it for deer but when I’m in hog territory I usually take the pump ‘06 or my .308 LR-308. This rifle could be more of an “elk rifle” like the bolt action you mention but could also be readily called to service for fast action. Maybe even faster than a 45-70 lever gun. The safety on a Remington is faster to disengage than the safety on a modern Marlin or cocking the hammer if you don’t use the safety.

 

[Obturation]

Im perhaps a bit different than most. I utilize my 45-70 as a general use rifle. Yes, ive shot small animals with it, at low velocity it doesnt explode them as some believe. Even squirrel can be taken (shoot the limb below them and watch 'em fly). I dont have a chance to shoot over 200 yards very often so the steep trajectory has not been an issue for me either. Will a 30-06 kill a deer just as well , if not better? Sure. But can the shooter connect at 400 yards? Usually not, really tough when the adrenaline starts.
I also have a few 30-30s but i rarely use them . With a 45-70 the brass lasts more or less forever, the pressure is low, it doesnt rely on expansion and can be loaded for grandma to shoot if needed. All that at pressures 1/3 or less than a 44 mag. Im sure my view is different than a lot of guys, but in my life there is very little it cant do. When i need more i have a savage rifle in 338 lapua mag , if either of those wont do i would just give up.

 

[BigBore44]

Im perhaps a bit different than most. I utilize my 45-70 as a general use rifle. Yes, ive shot small animals with it, at low velocity it doesnt explode them as some believe. Even squirrel can be taken (shoot the limb below them and watch 'em fly). I dont have a chance to shoot over 200 yards very often so the steep trajectory has not been an issue for me either. Will a 30-06 kill a deer just as well , if not better? Sure. But can the shooter connect at 400 yards? Usually not, really tough when the adrenaline starts.
I also have a few 30-30s but i rarely use them . With a 45-70 the brass lasts more or less forever, the pressure is low, it doesnt rely on expansion and can be loaded for grandma to shoot if needed. All that at pressures 1/3 or less than a 44 mag. Im sure my view is different than a lot of guys, but in my life there is very little it cant do. When i need more i have a savage rifle in 338 lapua mag , if either of those wont do i would just give up.

The 45-70 was the first rifle I really enjoyed hunting with. I’d killed deer with my ‘06 a few times but I was, and am still, primarily a bow hunter. My love for rifle hunting came when I acquired my 1895. It’s great for deer when the proper ammunition is applied. Just don’t plan on finding the bullet to see how it performed. I have killed many deer with mine. I just figured all that power wasn’t needed to get the job done. So I bought a 44 Mag for deer and haven’t failed to bring any home anytime I’ve sent one the 240gr Sierra’s their direction. It’s a very potent little round. And it’s my go to when deer season rolls around and I get to go help my brother fill his freezer. Plus it’s just fun to shoot and easy to carry all day.

 

[KnightHawk]

The original quote:

Possible uses is a camping gun in grizz land, and maybe deer hunting at some point. Though camping is more the likely.[/QUOTE]

With you're quote in mind, and you already having a 357 lever gun, here's my take for what it's worth. Have a Rossi in a 357 mag and love the little gun. With 180 grain WFN slug loaded hot, I feel would work, but, I personally opt for the hot 44 mag.
Where I live black bears are at times a problem, although it's been a few years that we have been free of bear vandals. Although since I've lived here, 45 years, there have been 11 black bears killed in the 3 sections of land this road goes through. I've dealt with 3 of them. A black bear, can tear the living crap out of a cabin, and I'm sure a grizz would do the same or more.
The grizzly's are very rare around here, you might hear of one every 4 or 5 years, but I have never seen one here, and that suits me just fine.
So with that said I keep a Browning 92 with full house 44 magnum loads in the magazine, just behind the door. I've used larger caliber bolt guns in the past, but, the little Browning (20" bbl) is very quick and handy.
If grizzly's where in the area I would have my old straight stocked Marlin 1895, 45-70 out, period. I have had 2 friends deal with uninvited grizzly's at their cabins, up close and personal and the 45-70's has the extra penetration, and just flat does the job.

 

[KnightHawk]

Personally I find the idea of one or the other to be boring. You should have both a 44 mag and a 45-70. And my advice is not to stop there. 30-30, 35 Remington, 32 Spl, 348 Win, 38-55, 444 Marlin, just a few that come to mind.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Personally I find the idea of one or the other to be boring. You should have both a 44 mag and a 45-70. And my advice is not to stop there. 30-30, 35 Remington, 32 Spl, 348 Win, 38-55, 444 Marlin, just a few that come to mind.

I want me a vintage Glenfield in .35 Remington. Have owned the 336 in some of those other cartridges, but not this one.
I always liked how the Glenfield had that plain but very solid stamped steel .22 rifle rear sight and a bead front sight dovetailed into the barrel with no ramp. I even liked the stained maple stock with the tacky impressed deer head scene. And the .35 Rem. is a great cartridge.

 

[Jessesky]

I don’t like a levergun for relying on one rifle in the bush. I haven’t a ton of experience myself, but when I do go to CO and I hang with flyfishing and hunting guide buddies, most go bolt action.

Easier to clean, more robust and more reliable. I can strip a Mauser bolt with no tools and my eyes closed. That’s my opinion if this is purely a tool. I LOVE lever actions. I have a 73’, 86’, 92’,94’,and 95’. But I like them for their history and fun factor. A marlin will serve you very well if you like it, but I think for pure utility they have been surpassed.

TBH “Grizz” are the least of your worries, but if that’s your purpose, 44mag should be out of the question for a long gun.

 

[KnightHawk]

Jessesky you no what they say about opinions.
I certainly can't argue, but, levers been doing the job for a long time. And I say that as a bolt fan myself. I've got bolt guns from 458 on down to 223, with a few in between. I just find a lever carries easy and points in a snap. Mainly my opinion of a "camp gun" in Grizzly country is light, fast, with a fair amount of punch. All but one of my bolt guns has a scope. So for a "camp gun", just saying, in my opinion is, close up, right now and more than likely in the dark. YMMV.
Don't get me wrong, I'm old school, and set in my ways. All depends on what works for the individual.
Oh yeah, lever guns stand in the corner better.

 

[LRDGCO]

And let's not forget the .405 Winchester in an 1895. If it was Teddy's "medicine gun", it ought to do for you.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Easier to clean, more robust and more reliable. I can strip a Mauser bolt with no tools and my eyes closed. That’s my opinion if this is purely a tool. I LOVE lever actions. I have a 73’, 86’, 92’,94’,and 95’. But I like them for their history and fun factor. A marlin will serve you very well if you like it, but I think for pure utility they have been surpassed.

I don't think that anyone can argue that a bolt action is simpler and more reliable than a lever action. Because of the tubular magazine and carrier arrangement, which is largely inaccessible in the receiver, a lever action jam can be difficult to clear. So I don't think that you would want to rely on one when hunting dangerous game.
On the other hand, if your tube-fed lever gun works well and you have tuned out any quirks, then it's perfectly fine for most hunting situations that aren't long range.
And, a clip fed BLR or Henry chambers the more effective cartridges that some bolt actions use, mounts a scope well, and is accurate, simple, and reliable.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Thanks again all for the comments. A few follow up thoughts.

I like the notion of ammo compatibility with a revolver. I like that about 44 mag. I really think 44 magnum out of a carbine would do anything I need it to. However, I typically have the attitude of why would I want a 40 S&W if I can get more out of a 10mm? So the notion of go big or go home makes sense to me. I know that BFRs can be had in 45-70, but I think that is a silly concept given the velocity loss that would come from a revolver length barrel and the frame size is goofy looking to me.

Someone suggested a Bighorn Armory 460 magnum lever action. That’s a good suggestion but I’m not dropping $2500 on this gun.

The suggestions of a bolt action cane up also. That isn’t the point here and not what I’m looking for. I like my lever action and I shoot it quickly so that’s what I want.

The notion of buying multiple guns came up. I have a limited gun budget. Retirement savings is more important to me than having enough guns to invade Bolivia. So one or two more, maybe.

I realize that grizzly bear are not a major concern. I’ve spent time around bears and have been entirely too close. I’ve been a professional forester for years and am pretty good at avoiding trouble. But sometimes trouble finds you none the less. I prefer a nuclear deterrent if one is needed.

But..... I’m still not 100% decided yet.