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IL - 1000s Won't be Able to Apply For Concealed Carry License

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by wtr100, Dec 12, 2013.

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  1. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    from http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43469


    1000s Won't be Able to Apply For Concealed Carry License

    Due to Illinois State Police

    Complicated Application Process


    ISP Says Only Digital/Online ApplicationsTo Be Accepted!

    1000s of Illinois citizens won't be able to apply for a concealed carry license, if the Illinois State Police proposed rules and regulations are approved by the Joint Committee on Administrative Rules on Dec. 17, 2013. ISP administrators say requiring electronic applications will make it easier for the ISP licensing division and will speed up the application process.

    However, 1,000s of Illinois residents do not have computers and internet access, and even if they did, they do not have the technical knowledge to maneuver through the complicated process of creating a digital signature, or scanning and attaching the required documents and photo. The process also requires applicant to set up an online ePay account in order to pay the license fee online with a credit card. This requirement will make it impossible for people who do not use credit cards.

    A great many people will be able to navigate the digital process just fine, but there must be a process made available for those without computers/internet/credit cards to fill out a paper application, put it in a paper envelope along with a paper check or money order, and mailed with a paper stamp.

    Other problems with ISP's proposed rules:
    1. Their definition of a state's carry law needing to be substantially similar to IL nearly rules out all carry licenses for out of state residents. The definition should be that the state preforms a background check, has a reasonable amount of training, and they prohibit people with a mental health problem that show a clear and present danger.

    2. ISP goes beyond the law and requires non-law enforcement instructors to have a current carry license but exempts instructors who are law enforcement. The Firearm Concealed Carry Act requires all instructors to be treated equally.

    3. ISP has changed the definition of law enforcement official to include only LEOs who are employed, which rules out auxiliary law enforcement officials.



    Contact JCAR members now!
    Urge them to stand up for the 1000s of elderly and poor who will be denied the right to apply for a concealed carry license because they do not have the computer/internet resources to apply online for a license.
    Urge them to fairly define "substantially similar" so your family and friends who live out of state can obtain a carry license in order to protect themselves while in IL.
    Urge them to treat all instructors to the same requirements.
    Urge them to treat auxilary officials the same as employed in regards to training requirements and other aspects of the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.



    Co-Chairman Sen. Don Harmon
    (217) 782-8176
    (708) 848-2002
    dharmon@senatedem.ilga.gov


    Co-Chairman Rep. Timothy Schmitz
    (217) 782-5457
    (630) 845-9590
    info@timschmitz.org

    Sen. Pamela Althoff
    (217) 782-8000
    (815) 455-6330
    Email


    Sen. Tony Munoz
    (217) 782-9415
    (773) 869-9050
    Email


    Sen. Sue Rezin
    (217) 782-3840
    (815) 220-8720
    senatorrezin@gmail.com


    Sen. Dale Righter
    (217) 782-6674
    (217) 235-6033
    drighter@consolidated.net


    Sen. Ira Silverstein
    (217) 782-5500
    (773) 743-5015
    Email


    Rep. Gregory Harris
    (217) 782-3835
    (773) 348-3434
    Email


    Rep. Lou Lang
    (217) 782-1252
    (847) 673-1131
    langli@ilga.gov


    Rep. David Leitch
    (217) 782-8108
    (309) 690-7373
    repdavidleitch@gmail.com


    Rep. Don Moffitt
    (217) 782-8032
    (309) 343-8000
    moffitt@grics.net


    Rep. Andre Thapedi
    (217) 782-1702
    (773) 873-4444
    rep32district@gmail.com
     
  2. ewlyon

    ewlyon Member

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    I imagine the best work around for this would be for gun shops to start helping people with the paperwork. Some of the bigger shops could easily set up a computer for customers to use for this if the state police dont change their minds.
     
  3. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Exactly. Wouldn't even need to be a gun shop, just someone with a scanner, camera, and CC who would be willing to help people submit applications.
     
  4. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Hello disparate impact. The impact of this will fall most heavily on economically-challenged minorities. Disappointing (to me) that so many liberals who are (rightly) determined to protect equal access to the ballot for those who lack the sophistication to navigate complex government certification requirements are so eager to erect similar barriers to deny equal access to another constitutional right. Rank hypocrisy.
     
  5. wildbilll

    wildbilll Member

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    My response is that this is 2013. The internet has existed for about 20 years to the masses.
    I am sure that someone who does not have internet at home will be able to find someone to help them.
    The ISP does not want to deal with paper, hence the electronic submissions.
    Look at it this way, the application won't get lost in the mail. It won't get lost on someone's desk. It won't have as many errors. It allows for you to go online and see what is taking so #*$&^ long for them to process the application.
    My advice to those people is find a friend and go to the library. They have internet there.
    And they are able to save the cost of the postage stamp.
    I just got a notice from PA for a renewal there, they say you have to apply in person because the have to capture an electronic photo and signature. This is the wave of the future.
     
  6. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    ^^^ That's absolutely true but some folks are either, so out-of-tune with technology that they don't know how to ask for help, or they're too embarrassed to ask. So they give up and do without.
     
  7. 9w1911

    9w1911 Member

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    you can use a computer for free and access the internets at a public library,
     
  8. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    ^^ This.

    It's a <yawn> moment.

    You can't even apply for a job at Walmart without doing it on a computer. If you can't do it yourself, there are volunteers at about any library that can assist.



    "some folks are either, so out-of-tune with technology that they don't know how to ask for help, or they're too embarrassed to ask. So they give up and do without."

    Oh well. Shame on them. It can't be too important to them then. Some folks can't read either. Should we have an application using a variety of pictures that you circle and a place to put your "X" at the bottom? :rolleyes:


    Mebbe those folks can get some help from a friend, same as those who've never seen a computer before.


    Willie

    .
     
  9. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Critics of right-to-carry like to complain that pistol permits appear concentrated in upper-class low-crime neighborhoods where there is less need for self-defense, yet they don't mind rules like these (access to computers, scanners, fax machines, internet finance, etc) that in effect bar people who live in lower-class high-crime neighborhoods where there is more need for self-defense. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
     
  10. Willie Sutton

    Willie Sutton Member

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    Anyone in any neighborhood in any city in the USA can walk to a library to obtain free internet access.

    Lack of access is not an excuse, nor is lack of literacy.


    Willie

    .
     
  11. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    IL is determined to make the process and difficult, expensive and onerous as possible. This surprises who?
     
  12. OilyPablo

    OilyPablo Member

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    Yes, seems a bit hollow. I can see someone saying they can't afford to own a computer, but even that's a stretch now days. Mostly like they don't want to learn.
     
  13. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    The process has some warts but the law itself is far worse. Better to focus on fixing a horrible law with many traps in it than worrying about minor stuff like this.
     
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Ehhh...yes, but like Willie and others said, I can't really view putting stuff on line (only) as being a deliberate attempt to make it hard for folks. The numbers of people who don't use computers and have 'net access on their own is small to the point of vanishing, and access is completely free and public even to those people.

    Now, if they'd gone the other way and said it's ONLY available in paper form and you have to come in and get your paper forms from us -- just like it used to be only a few years ago in every state that issued permits -- would we be fussing?

    It's almost 2014, there is a big push to get rid of paper forms and paper form storage and handling and that's not a bad thing.

    There's lots to complain about in how IL is doing this, but I think I'd give this particular issue a pass. Damned if they do, damned if they don't, you know?
     
  15. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    TN is one of, if not the, easiest states to do business with over the internet, yet we can't even renew our HCP online, much less apply for one. I find it inconceivable IL is doing this to make it easier for people. If this were voting related, it would be considered in the same vein as a poll tax, looking to disenfranchise the poor from being able to get a carry permit.
     
  16. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    how about we fix a law that allows one to go hiking armed in a local FP but you are guilty of a class B misdemeanor for stepping inside an outhouse to take a leak.

    instead we waste time and energy on trailer bills that further restrict our rights but cater to a few dozen people who want to skip the required training because they took the LEO firearms training 40 years ago or are correctional officers.
     
  17. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    OMG, that's terrible! Are you working to fix that?
     
  18. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Disenfranchise the poor by giving them a way to go to their local library (for FREE) or internet cafe (for a couple of bucks?) and do something at the time and place of their choosing, rather than have to go to a specific government building at very specific office hours, probably wait in line several times, and deal face-to-face with government employees?

    Think about that again. Doesn't wash.
     
  19. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    but what about a scanner

    as a guy who's teaching a fair number of old timers it will be a real challenge for some of them to the point they say 'screw it' and don't apply

    which is pretty much the point of the exercise from the point of the ISP - have as few applications as possible
     
  20. wtr100

    wtr100 Member

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    The King's men should have no more privileges the 128 hours a week they're off the clock than the rest of us peasants.

    If the world made sense the King's Men would draw arms from the Arms Locker at the beginning of the shift and check it in at the end. Carry outside work hours would be based in a permit just like the rest of us.
     
  21. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    I live 25 miles from the nearest library and I can't walk. However, I am literate, own a reliable vehicle and have internet access... but that's not my point. There are many people who will do without as a repercussion of these new requirements.
     
  22. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    I am not sure any of this makes any real difference. Most people who look closely at how many places are banned from carry, they are going to realize it is mostly a permit to carry in your car and leave it there, except for the places where you can't carry in your car. If they actually realize how limited it is, relatively few people will bother to get a FCCL.
     
  23. wildbilll

    wildbilll Member

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    The references to being unfair to the poor because of a lack of internet access won't really ring true with the courts. $150, plus a convenience fee for the mandatory Epay, totaling $153 will get a court's attention.
    Add to that the costs for the un-justifiable 16 hour course ($200 plus).
    Add to that the redundancy of needing a FOID card, although only $10 for 10 years, we have a pattern of excessive regulation.
    Why should someone need a FOID card if they are going to get a more in depth background check every 5 years?
     
  24. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    Money... taxes... money... taxes... we won't concern ourselves with those who can't pay to acquire self protection. We want our money. Streamlining the process saves us even more money. We love money. To heck with those with none spare to give us for the privilege of defending themselves. We want OUR MONEY!!
     
  25. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    The cost to buy an appropriate firearm, ammunition, and accessories is likely to exceed the cost of the license and the training.

    I think it will be hard to convince a court that the cost of training and licensing is excessive. especially given that the cost of licensing is not real far off from states considered far more gun friendly Like TX and FL. TX is $140 and FL is $112.

    One could argue both TC and FL are more intrusive as both require fingerprinting while IL does not.
     
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