IL - 1000s Won't be Able to Apply For Concealed Carry License

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C0untZer0 said:
According to the statute it is 90 days with fingerprints and a possible additional 30 days for a manual background check if you don't submit fingerprints.

There are already thousands of application partially filled out that will be completed within minutes on Jan 5th. I think the ISP is going to have a deluge of applications to work through, and I think applications without fingerprints will probably go to the bottom of the pile - just my opinion.

By the time the ISP issues paper-based forms, there will already be a HUGE backlog of CCL application to work through, so for people who submit a paper form, not only will they have undergone a 7-month or so delay, they will then have the additional delay of going to the end of a very long line of people waiting for their CCL.
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If they have done their homework, and I think they have, most of the work involved will be physically creating the ID cards and going through a few things here and there by hand (such as manually verifying the picture submitted matches the DL and FOID card pictures. My guess is that it will take no more than on average five or ten man minutes per applicant.

Since they allegedly hired 40 people to work on this they could conceivably issue 1000 or more licenses a day once they got going on it. Even if they can only do 500 a day that is more than 10,000 a month.

I have no idea how many license applicants there will be. My guess is that it will not be anywhere near as wildly popular as some have envisioned. It is almost useless to people who regularly take public transportation and to a lot of others will amount to a license to leave something fairly valuable in one's car unattended.

I just wonder how many people will be willing to pay $300-500 for the opportunity to leave a loaded gun in your car while they at work.
 
Not sure using your credit card on a public computer is exactly wise....never know what kind of data miners or key loggers could be on those computers.
 
And, of course, one would take the approximate $55 USD fingerprint fee and divide it by 30 to decide if that extra money is worth having a permit perhaps 30 days sooner.
 
I for one will not be submitting fingerprints.

Not after...

Paying for the 16 hour course ($200), missing a day of work ($120), driving to the class ($30 in fuel), buying the required OWB holster ($40), 3 required magazines in my class ($105 for all), ammo ($20), and the $150 (non-refundable) application fee, purchasing a FOID ($10), and changing the address on my FOID ($5) There is also no convenient livescan location near me, so add whatever transportation and fingerprint fees are required on top of that for the fast track application. We are also not continuing our lease this summer and that is ANOTHER $75 address change for my ccw permit.

As it stands that is already $680 invested (possibly $755) for the potential to obtain an IL ccw. Why can't they use the fingerprints I already paid for and sent through the FBI for my Utah non-resident ccw?

I know that it may not be the popular opinion here but I agree with a few others. Illinois should have run out the clock on this one. Now we're stuck negotiating within the same system and traversing the same political pitfalls that prohibited ccw to begin with. This is a significant expense for someone earning my salary. Many are worse off than I am. I won't even bother calculating the lifetime cost of an IL CCW as it stands. All the refresher courses, address change fees for FOID and CCW, transporation costs, and lost wages. What a crock.
 
The fingerprint requirement is obtrusive and unnecessary. Why do they need it? Besides, tens of millions of us already have our fingerprints on national databases due to federal employment requirements.
 
Running out the clock would have been similar to constitutional carry, although technically I guess it would have been "court" carry. It would have been a lot cheaper than what we have now - the cost of a FOID. But I'm not sure about the timetable. Hypothetically, if we had the votes to demand a better bill or run out the clock... it would have forced Lisa Madigan's hand to appeal to the Supreme Court which might have introduced another year delay in getting carry at all. I don't think anyone in the gun control movement wanted Moore to go to SCOTUS because they probably would have lost.

Sadly we didn't have the votes in Illinois to make this bill better.

If you remember Mike Madigan had his cadre of cronies introduce one amendment after another to see how they could successfully whittle down the original bill. Some of those restrictions -like libraries, passed. Eventually those restrictions were included in the replacement bill.

I don't think anyone has ever played the game of chicken with Mike Madigan and won. We didn't have enough pro-2A legislators with the guts to go up against him and run the clock out, take the state "over the cliff" and accept court carry until a better bill could be worked out.
 
C0untZer0 said:
Sadly we didn't have the votes in Illinois to make this bill better.
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But we may have had the votes to keep any bill at all from passing in the house.

That was always my preferred approach rather than the abomination we ended up with.

But, "our" side blinked when they faced off with Mike Madigan and we squandered our once in a lifetime opportunity.

It will likely take several decades to fix all the bad in this act.

Sadly, the first "fix" actually made it worse. That shows where we may be headed. We are up against some very savvy politicians and they are very good at getting what they want, and we have little experience at success in the firearms law arena in IL.

We have been able to reduce the level of damage done in the legislature, but little in the way of progress forward. I do not think that will change any. The courts are our only real hope. The NRA seems to feel that way too as the NRA lobbyist recently admitted that the NRA is looking into a number of cases and has committed significant financial resources to the legal fight in IL. If they thought there was even a prayer of winning in the legislature they would not be spending the money for lawyers.
 
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I do remember shortly after the appeals court ruling the tone on our side was "we've go 'em over a barrel" And the strategy was they either give us what we want or we pass nothing, then it would be constitutional carry or court carry.
As we got closer to the deadline, we started hearing that court carry was not an option, that we did not want that.
We blinked.
 
wildbilll said:
I do remember shortly after the appeals court ruling the tone on our side was "we've go 'em over a barrel" And the strategy was they either give us what we want or we pass nothing, then it would be constitutional carry or court carry.
As we got closer to the deadline, we started hearing that court carry was not an option, that we did not want that.
We blinked.
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Some of that I think was the NRA's desperation to get any kind of LTC bill passed so they could claim 50 states have LTC. Madigan used that desperation against us.

I have to say that he is one impressive politician. He knows how to manipulate people to get what he wants. He apparently even had at least some on our side believing he was helping us, as laughable as that now seems.
 
Perhaps a future lawsuit (of the class action kind?) might be in order for all the expenses required just to obtain a permit to allow them to exercise their RKBA in the first place?

This is something that Il residents need to consider building a case for...and that takes both a law and system established and operating as well as time for people to build up plenty of good examples with which an attorney can build a good case for in the courts.

So don't give up yet...like it or not, this system is better than what used to be in place for decades.
 
^ What you're talking about is Kwong v Bloomberg. Currently waiting for David Jensen to appeal to SCOTUS.
 
It is a moot point. The ISP has agreed to come up with some kind of way to apply on paper that will become available this summer.
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If they told the organizers of a GLBTQ demonstration that they'd have to wait 7 months longer than other groups to stage their demonstration - I bet it wouldn't fly.

If apartment owners switched their application processes over to online digital and said it would be a 7 month delay till they came up with the new paper process they'd lose on disparate impact.

A right deferred is a right denied.

The Second Amendment gets treated differently.
 
I think the reality has just dawned on me. The reason that the passage of the IL ccw law personally feels like a failure is because my attempts to further our 2nd amendment rights in this state amounted to nothing. I admit that my efforts are not as great as others. I have made my phone calls, written letters, marched on the capitol, and stood in the office of our representatives. I am an NRA member and as much as being a member of the "Gun Lobby" stereotypes me (unfairly as most gun enthusiasts understand) I have kept my membership to stand against the flood.

None of that mattered. It was simply a court order filtered through the same friggin' Illinois politics to give us an overpriced, pay to play, watered down, homage to civil rights that people living 30 minutes away from me don't have to spend an entire paycheck on to exercise with fewer restrictions. We are hanging in the wind. There is no precedent here. Not only are we footing the bill to be personally endorsed by Mike Madigan while carrying a firearm under heavy restrictions but we will be personally footing the bill to set the next court precedent for the entire state to follow if we are forced to exercise this right under duress. This is ruinous. Each and every one of us could become the next headline. Most of the state will be laughing at us over breakfast as we fight for our livelihood, families, property, and our dignity.

They bucked the responsibility for political expedience and laid it on the individual. Some say we ought to feel victorious in our "victory" but it is discouraging. I feel like I am begging for scraps at the table. I hoped for more. The law does nothing to protect me or my spouse in precisely the areas we frequent the most. We do not want to be an example.

Sorry for the rant. I know that this issue is bigger than I am. The entire thing just puts a lump in my throat. Victory feels like defeat. Nothing was won. We only have a decree. Perhaps in another 124 days I'll have a few crumbs to lift my spirits a little.
 
All y'all should have just waited it out and have court carry.

It's so damn funny that so many over there kept on saying "This is better than nothing or this is a first step". It's not better, because you guys bought into the crap the anti's sell - that a person needs massive training, a license, and enormous fees to exercise your fundamental rights. Sure, first step in the decades that it will take to undo this crap unless some form of national reciprocity comes about.

If a person has to -

- Get a license to vote [this is coming].

- Get a license to speak out against things they don't believe in [this will come right after everyone needs a license to own a firearm] Most towns already have requirements to get a permit to assemble. Think about this.

- Get a license to avoid getting searched at the airport [this is here].

A lot of people would be upset . . . Oh wait, we already have that stuff.

Have any of you looked at the live fire qualification portion of the training? 70% at 5, 7, & 10 yards. Sure, no issue for most of us on this board, but what if you're 60's/70's and shoot once or twice a year or not at all? With crappy eyes, do y'all really think most seniors will get 70% in the black at 7 or 10 yards? BTW, a qualifying shot is inside the 7 ring. I know that there are some of you out there who would have a challenge doing that at 10 yards.

Indiana's police depts generally qualify at 70% but with it being more of a mix . . .

3 yard shoot from the hip
5 yard strong hand, weak hand
7 yard strong hand ,weak hand
10 yard strong hand,weak hand
15 yard strong hand, weak hand
25 yard strong hand weak hand.

The gist in IL is if you do not have at least $500 in spare change AND a NON-Saturday Night Special (melting laws) AND can shoot half as good as a police officer, you can't defend yourself off your property. Completely dumb as a box of rocks and the idiots who pushed for this lost a major fight and are trying to spin it in their favor.
 
I didn't like the bill and I wasn't jumping for joy, but the fact is we didn't have enough legislators who were willing to take the state "over the cliff" and get court carry.

Chicago is a textbook case of manipulating and concentrating a constituency. It's called the Curley Effect:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1891

You combine that with jerrymandering districts and the anti-gunners continue to have control of Illinois politics.
 
ilbob said:
I am not sure any of this makes any real difference. Most people who look closely at how many places are banned from carry, they are going to realize it is mostly a permit to carry in your car and leave it there, except for the places where you can't carry in your car. If they actually realize how limited it is, relatively few people will bother to get a FCCL.
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Exactly this. I am waiting for a few more items with my fathers estate to be cleared up before moving, but I have already been looking at property in Arizona. Soon I will leave this sewer and never look back. I will keep all of you good people in my prayers that someday you will be able to really be free.
 
WAAAA, right? vote with your feet and your wallet. Let them choke on their "constituency" of parasites. If you stay there, not only are you condoning it, you are funding it, with your tax monies. What do you call somebody who aids and abets the enemy? You ertainly do not refer to them as being somebody who is helping, correct?
 
wriggly said:
Exactly this. I am waiting for a few more items with my fathers estate to be cleared up before moving, but I have already been looking at property in Arizona. Soon I will leave this sewer and never look back. I will keep all of you good people in my prayers that someday you will be able to really be free.
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Are you joking? Unless you're living in Chicagistan

Unless posted you can carry in the

grocery store
hardware store
veteranarian
auto mechanic
clothing store
bank
barber
flower shop
jewery store
....
 
If you cant use a computer to do this, you will end up being denied a whole lot more in life than a ccw permit...jobs, almost everything has an online component anymore. Get help using the computer. No credit card? get a debit-cash card. John Wayne said it best: "Times change, and a man has to change along with them." Also by the Duke: "Life is hard, its a lot harder if you are stupid." Myself, I like my mothers old saying: "Cant never could do anything"....PLEASE at least you can get one now! No, no one is going to come to your door and spoon feed you one, but now that the door is open, educate and empower yourself! Take advantage of what those fighting have brought to you! Lord help them signing up for Obama care....(just joking on this one) but really, computers are a way of life now...why throw hurdles in front of yourself?

Russellc
 
wtr100 said:
Are you joking? Unless you're living in Chicagistan

Unless posted you can carry in the

grocery store
hardware store
veteranarian
auto mechanic
clothing store
bank
barber
flower shop
jewery store
....
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How many of those places will be posted?

And how often do people go to those places?

Most people will not be allowed to carry at work.

Most recreational venues such as bars, sporting events, and amusement parks are banned so no carry there.

Anyone using public transit to get anywhere is out of luck. And that is a lot of people in urban areas where most people live.

While not illegal under the law, I would bet most banks will post. Besides, who goes to a bank any more? I have not been inside a bank except to sign some forms for the coin club in almost 20 years. Drive up, ATM, and automatic deposit.

The point is not that you could not find somewhere to carry, you can. But most people will find that a lot of places they go on a daily basis it will be banned and that makes it inconvenient for them as they are having to arm and disarm repeatedly. This arming and disarming sequence has some serious safety consequences that need to be thought through and not just dismissed by reciting the 3 rules.
 
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ilbob said:
The point is not that you could not find somewhere to carry, you can. But most people will find that a lot of places they go on a daily basis it will be banned and that makes it inconvenient for them as they are having to arm and disarm repeatedly. This arming and disarming sequence has some serious safety consequences that need to be thought through and not just dismissed by reciting the 3 rules.
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I agree completely. Disarming / rearming is not a wonderful proposition in the confines of a car. All it takes is a flap of clothing, retention strap (for those who use them), or other obstruction to get in the wrong spot at the wrong time while re-holstering, as you contort around to try to get thing situated, for your day to take a really bad turn for the worse.

I can't count the number of times I've read stories about people accidentally shooting themselves while holstering/reholstering in the last few years, but there's plenty of examples out there of how quickly things go wrong when you have inexperienced people constantly fiddling around with their guns in cars.
 
Trent said:
I agree completely. Disarming / rearming is not a wonderful proposition in the confines of a car. All it takes is a flap of clothing, retention strap (for those who use them), or other obstruction to get in the wrong spot at the wrong time while re-holstering, as you contort around to try to get thing situated, for your day to take a really bad turn for the worse.

I can't count the number of times I've read stories about people accidentally shooting themselves while holstering/reholstering in the last few years, but there's plenty of examples out there of how quickly things go wrong when you have inexperienced people constantly fiddling around with their guns in cars.
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I wonder who the first instructor will be that is sued over this.

On a couple other forums there are some instructors who are leaving a trail of liability on the internet suggesting that arming and disarming repeatedly is perfectly safe.
 
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