IL:Fannypack Carry with new Law Starts Now

[Dean Weingarten]

Opencarry.org has some decent discussion on the new concealed carry law in Illinois.

Here is a link to a PDF file of the new law. 168 double spaced typed pages

Full text of the Illinois Firearms Concealed Carry Act (HB183)

Here are some well thought out remarks from kurt555gs on the Illinois forum on opencarry.

HB183 is now law! The legislature has over ridden the ( irrelevant ) governor's veto.

The Concealed carry portion of the law is horrid. Written by the Chicago anti civil rights bunch and full of delays and traps and criminal penalties to Illinois License to Carry holders. In fact, it will be a year before the first license is issued. I'll leave my discussion of that horrid discriminatory part of the bill for later.

What else is in the bill? Well, state wide pre-emption and the revocation of ALL local ordinances concerning "handguns". Gone are magazine limits, and unconstitutional "transport" restrictions from dozens of Home Rule Communities. No more Chicago transport laws about "broken down" or "ammunition" separate. One law state wide. It's Fanny Pack Day! All you need is a FOID card or be a non resident.

Speaking of non residents, they as of right now get to carry a loaded handgun in a car. Not Illinois residents though, not even with a non resident permit. This law was very careful to discriminate against us Illinois folks. However, if you have a concealed carry permit from ANY state, OR if you are either 18 or 21 without any permit or background check or anything from the following states:

AK,WA,OR,CA,ID,NV,AZ,NM,WY,CO,SD,NE,KS,MO,WI,MI,KY ,LA,AL,MS,OH,WV,PA,DE,NH,ME,VA,NC, or VT.

Then, you can drive or ride around Chicago or anywhere in the state with your loded Glock and 30 round magazine AND you don't have to inform the cops when you are stopped.

No Illinois residents though. It's for the children.

What is left for Illinois residents, today, right now, is commonly referred to as "Container Transport" or "Fanny Pack Carry". It means having a FOID card (Illinois residents only) and transporting your firearm "Unloaded and enclosed in a case". Ammo is not regulated and you can have loaded magazines or speed loaders in the same case or in your pocket, or in an ammo pouch on your belt. Everywhere in Illinois! Also, there are different prohibited places for "Transport" than for concealed carry ; license holders. Places prohibited like public transportation or neighborhood festvals for concealed carry are perfectly fine to "Container Transport". Research these yourself.

So, a bad concealed carry laws passes, but a great Container Transport one does at the same time.

While transport of an unloaded firearm in a fannypack may not be optimum, it is far from useless either. This seems to be a little known feature of the new law.

Dean Weingarten

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/07/ilfannypack-carry-with-new-law.html

The PDF link above worked once. Now I cannot get it to work!

 

[JFtheGR8]

I never really thought of it that way but with preemption I guess it would be so. Chicago legislators are already talking about changing the law and making new ones come January. The fight is far from over.


Posted from Thehighroad.org App for Android

 

[improperlyaged]

So an ARkie can drive through IL with a loaded pistol without breaking the law? I am thinking road trip.

 

[x_wrench]

i really can not understand the Illinois politicians. it is hands down proven way to combat crime, without spending ANY money on police. put honest, good people into society with concealed firearms, and the crime rate plummets. the criminals are forced to think about which one of the near by 6-10 persons, might have a firearm, and be willing to use it to stop them from committing the crime of their choice. especially violent crimes. most people are good, or at the very least have good intentions. removing a persons right to defend themselves only empowers the criminal element. what is so difficult to understand? i am usually not a fan of Wayne La Pierre, (i am of his workings, i just am not a fan of the man) but his quote after the Sandy Hook shootings will stay with me for a long time to come. "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". it is plain, straight forward, simple truth. and that is its beauty. it is very hard to beat logic like that. and while the anti gun crowd can argue about just about anything else, they KNOW he was correct with that statement.

 

[junglebob]

I've been doing "fannypack carry" also known as "container transport" in Illinois for over 8 years now. The problem in the past was local ordinances on transport that were more restrictive than state law, especially in northern Illinois. Now those local ordinances are no longer in effect.

I live in southern Illinois, south of Interstate 64 where no community has had such ordinances, now it is statewide.

BTW, I use one of those black Uncle Mike's Sidekick fanny packs that is supposed to scream GUN! It has never been a problem.

The definition of "container transport" is an unloaded handgun encased with a loaded magazine, or speedloader in the case with the handgun. Also called 6 seconds to safety!

 

[Dean Weingarten]

I think that in Illinois, many of the politicians are criminals. Then, you have the mentality that black criminals should never be put at risk:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/07/a-statistician-explains-conundrum-by.html

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Dean, I'd had thoughts along the same lines~ new ccw vs. 'fanny pack' carry. Thanks for posting.

 

[Archaic]

It was a baby step, but it was a big one. Congrats illinini.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

At least it is a step in the Right Direction.

 

[brickeyee]

I think that in Illinois, many of the politicians are criminals.

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress

.- Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar, Mark Twain

 

[JTHunter]

There was a case from 2009 that ultimately decided "container carry". Look up "Illinois vs. Diggins" and read it at CaseLaw (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-court/1500192.html).

The ISP website has FAQ's that reference "container carry" (http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm) with a separate set of FAQ's for CCW (http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/ccw-faq.cfm).
It's worth bookmarking this second link as things will change over the next several months.

 

[Trent]

I'm fortunate enough to now be 100% surrounded by counties which the SA's have publicly stated they are no longer prosecuting UUW (there are 14, at last count).

My "container carry" has been a loaded CZ-75 in a holster for a while.

Yes, I'll lose the gun for an indeterminate time if ISP stops and arrests me, but the county and local PD's are all briefed by the chief LEO's.

For those still in 'enemy territory' container carry is as viable as it always has been.

Same holds true for your glovebox / center console in a vehicle. Those count as containers per IL supreme court decision. Unloaded, of course. (loaded mag next to unloaded gun). Container in vehicle must have latch to qualify, lock optional.

 

[230RN]

Chicago politics used to be amusing. Now it's getting hilarious. Watching those guys squirm and wiggle to get around allowing a fundamental civil right to be exercised is a hoot. They must really be afraid of "we the people." We can't have them keeping GUH-UHNs around.

I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm narrow-minded, but for quite a number of decades, my test of a politician's qualifications to govern is more and more getting to narrow down to his or her clearly-stated position on the Second Amendment with no waffle-words.

So call me a one-issue voter, so call me naïve, so call me a redneck, but that's the way my mind has been trending.

By the way, someone check me on this, but I think that quote about "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun" originated with Jeff Cooper, and Mr. La Pierre was only quoting it. But as often happens when someone quotes a good saying, it gets attributed to the quoter instead of the originator. Happens all the time.

Terry, 230RN

 

[bdickens]

i really can not understand the Illinois politicians. it is hands down proven way to combat crime, without spending ANY money on police. put honest, good people into society with concealed firearms, and the crime rate plummets. the criminals are forced to think about which one of the near by 6-10 persons, might have a firearm, and be willing to use it to stop them from committing the crime of their choice. especially violent crimes. most people are good, or at the very least have good intentions. removing a persons right to defend themselves only empowers the criminal element. what is so difficult to understand? i am usually not a fan of Wayne La Pierre, (i am of his workings, i just am not a fan of the man) but his quote after the Sandy Hook shootings will stay with me for a long time to come. "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". it is plain, straight forward, simple truth. and that is its beauty. it is very hard to beat logic like that. and while the anti gun crowd can argue about just about anything else, they KNOW he was correct with that statement.

They aren't interested in combating crime.

 

[Trent]

This just in:

Chicago wants to pass (yet another) misdemeanor firearms ordinance to make carrying guns near schools illegal.

Question: Criminals who are about to shoot a kid are going to stop because of a misdemeanor city ordinance?

These people in power up there, are idiotic, foolish morons.

Feel good legislation doesn't save lives.

Heck, even strapped citizens will only have a marginal effect to deter gang crime. (It will allow an individual a chance, but overall, won't stop the violence on it's own).

Solving social and economic problems will save lives.

Sorry, hard to remain High Road when we're dealing with creatures like those politicians in Chicago. They need to take the blinders off and see the world for what it is.

 

[Jeff White]

Sorry, hard to remain High Road when we're dealing with creatures like those politicians in Chicago. They need to take the blinders off and see the world for what it is.

They see the world how it actually is. They aren't stupid. The fact is that the gangster disciples, the bloods and the crips and the latin kings and all the spin off gangs are part of the political culture in our large urban areas.

The gangster disciples and the latin kings in particular have made attempts to morph into legitimate political organizations. You can probably find some of the old documentaries on this by searching youtube.

The street gangs control enormous amounts of cash and physically control neighborhoods. They are allied with aldermen and councilmen and state and federal representatives in our major urban areas.

Street gang money buys elections and street gang thugs assist with voter turnout in these areas. The urban politician and the thug/gang banger culture are one and the same.

Then there is the fact that for one of the major political parties and a large part of the other one, they aren't intellectually honest enough to address the root cause of the violence and what created the thug/gang banger culture in the first place, because that would mean that 50+ years of government social engineering was a failure.

Better to blame inanimate objects like guns and lawful gun owners in other jurisdictions for the problem.

The thug/gang banging culture and the social programs that created it and made it thrive are not the problem in the eyes of the Chicago city council or the mayor or the state and federal representatives from that area. It's the fact that you and I are allowed to own guns.

In their minds my evil assault weapons and standard capacity magazines slip out of the locked gun room at night, sneak across the bean fields and through the woods a mile to Interstate 57, hitch hike the 275 miles to Chicago, and go on murder sprees in the inner city, then reverse the process and get home before I get up in the morning.

You can't credit these people with being capable of rational thought. They aren't. Their world is different then the one we live in and they like it that way. They profit from it.

 

[Salmoneye]

Someone please explain to me how I as a Vermont resident can carry in IL???

We have no permitting, so it is my understanding that we have no 'reciprocity' anywhere...

BTW...I have not (and won't) read the IL law, as I have no reason to...

 

[Trent]

Jeff, reminds me of when the IL senator got arrested for trying to take a handgun on a plane.

Turns out he was working as a security guard (yeah right) for a security firm.

That security firm handles security for Chicago mass transit. All of it.

The senator who had the gun? On the committee that approved the contract.

I 100% believe what you are saying, and agree with it.

Chicago politics is as corrupt as they come. The problem is, they are REALLY smart about covering their tracks, so it's hard to nail them on it.

And even if evidence does come up (such as that Senator getting arrested by the TSA for trying to carry a gun on a plane), the issue gets expertly swept under the rug and disappears from the public eye. The state controls prosecutions, the prosecutors are in league with the officials who are corrupt.

The thing is, for talking like this, to the general public, we'd sound like a couple of conspiracy nuts.

But in reality, we speak the truth.

 

[Trent]

Someone please explain to me how I as a Vermont resident can carry in IL???

We have no permitting, so it is my understanding that we have no 'reciprocity' anywhere...

BTW...I have not (and won't) read the IL law, as I have no reason to...

You'll need to wait 180 days for our application process to get readied, jump through the hoops, and pay $300 for a non-resident license.

(I believe you also have to prove you have taken 16 hours of training; I don't think non-residents are exempt from that?)

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Someone please explain to me how I as a Vermont resident can carry in IL??? We have no permitting, so it is my understanding that we have no 'reciprocity' anywhere..."


Vermont is an odd case: At first glance, a no permit required system seems great. Right until you realize that without any permit system available, you can carry in a tiny rural state where there's little need to do so, and have absolutely no access to reciprocity privileges anyplace else. Vermont is not doing it's residents a favor by not issuing permits. Bottom line is that you might be able to leverage an out of state permit from Florida or Utah to advantage to carry elsewhere, and "perhaps" to apply for other permits. Likely not in Illinious though. That's not the fault of the legislature of Illinois, it's the fault of the legislature of Vermont. Alaskans would be in the same condition if laska had not added a CCW process that is used to allow its residents to carry elsewhere (the permit is not required in Alaska itself). So for this beef, contact Ben and/or Jerry, your friendly state legislators, and complain to them.


Willie

.

 

[Salmoneye]

As my people have been here for a 'while' now, I realize that "Vermont is an odd case"...However, I disagree that "Vermont is not doing it's residents a favor by not issuing permits", but that is a different discussion...

My question stems from the OP (Original Post):

Speaking of non residents, they as of right now get to carry a loaded handgun in a car. Not Illinois residents though, not even with a non resident permit. This law was very careful to discriminate against us Illinois folks. However, if you have a concealed carry permit from ANY state, OR if you are either 18 or 21 without any permit or background check or anything from the following states:

AK,WA,OR,CA,ID,NV,AZ,NM,WY,CO,SD,NE,KS,MO,WI,MI,KY ,LA,AL,MS,OH,WV,PA,DE,NH,ME,VA,NC, or VT.

My question is what is the wording of the IL law that makes this possible...

I have no intention of going to IL, or need for a 'permit' from any other state...

I was simply wondering aloud about this thread...

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^ the wording is buried, and it says essentially that you can car-carry loaded (safe transit thru state with a loaded handgun in your car) if you are able to posess a handgun *in public* in your state of residence.

The quotation cited above is not from the statute, but is from a contributor to another forum who parsed out each states permit system (or lack of system) to see how they align with Illinois. Frankly I'm not sure why any state is excluded, since they all now supposedly issue (good luck to NJ residents). There is a "Substantially similar to Illinois" phrase in the statute, but I am not sure how that lays over this analysis. So, the 'list of states' that you are citing is not from the statute, and it's pedigree is both independant and uncertain. I would not rely on it other than for discussion.

As the seque follow on to the VT laws: VT would be doing you a huge favor if it, like Alaska and Arizona, continued it's no permit required system for carry within VT, but offered a permit that you could optionally obtain, merely for the purpose of excercising carry privileges with other states that recognize it. The fact that you cannot get a resident permit *of any sort* means that you are screwed in many other states.


I have no intention of going to IL, or need for a 'permit' from any other state...

You don't travel too much, do you? If you did, you would want a permit that was recognized elsewhere, in as many states as possible. Right now you can carry in VT, Arizona, oklahoma, and Alaska. That's it. Get a Florida non-resident and it adds 27 additional states to that list. If you could obtain a VT resident permit "for the purposes of reciprocity" you would likely get a list of states numbering about 36 (the number of states that Arizona, which offers optional permits for reciprocity reasons) gets. So... are you getting as good deal from VT? Frankly, it seems like a really bad deal to me...




Willie

.

 

[Salmoneye]

As the seque follow on to the VT laws: VT would be doing you a huge favor if it, like Alaska and Arizona, continued it's no permit required system for carry within VT, but offered a permit that you could optionally obtain, merely for the purpose of excercising carry privileges with other states that recognize it. The fact that you cannot get a resident permit *of any sort* means that you are screwed in many other states.


I have no intention of going to IL, or need for a 'permit' from any other state...

You don't travel too much, do you?

Not any longer...Hence my statement...

As for Vermont not doing me a 'favor', I suggest it is all the other States infringing on our (yours and mine) rights that are doing us the disservice...

 

[RPRNY]

Vermont is an odd bunny indeed. Given the makeup of the State Assembly, it would be best indeed if no gun legislation of any kind were ever presented for debate.

I do however have to agree with the comment above that Vermont's current approach is in fact Constitutionally the most correct. In view of the Second Amendment, the State allows anyone not specifically prohibited to own and bear firearms. It is other States unnecessary over-regulation that is a problem. Why should you one require a permit to exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution? Proof of VT residence should be sufficient to meet the requirements of any reciprocity law.

So, if providing critique rather than information, while I am of the view that in general the State Assembly is doing a disservice to Vermonters by moving ever farther left, with regards to gun law, their inaction is admirable and it is those States that fail to recognize Vermont's Constitutional Carry that are at fault.

 

[PJSprog]

As for Vermont not doing me a 'favor', I suggest it is all the other States infringing on our (yours and mine) rights that are doing us the disservice...

I agree, Salmoneye. Are there any other Constitutional rights which require background checks, training, and licensing for us to exercise?

That said, yes it's a flawed law here in Illinois, but it's fixable. I understand many states went through this in the early stages. We'll get it (mostly) right, eventually. The fact that the state is run by Chicago idiot politicians will simply slow the process.