Illegal to buy a gun from a felon?

[Mick_W]

Recently when I was in my lgs they were telling me a story of something that had happened the week before.

Apparently a guy brought in a mossberg 500 to sell while looking it over they saw something on it they suspected to be blood, while talking to each other about it, the guy heard and said it was paint from him painting a room earlier that week. They didn't really believe it but bought the gun from the guy anyway. couple days later police show up looking for the gun since it had been used to hit a person in the face during a robbery. They got in no trouble for purchasing the firearm from the guy at all.

I would suspect the only way you would get in trouble is if you knew you were purchasing a gun used in a felony because you might be considered a accomplice.

 

[plunge]

Why wouldn't you be able to buy a gun from a felon? True he shouldn't have the gun, but so long as it wasn't used in a crime what's the danger in you now possessing it? Once the weapon is out of the felon's possession, everyone is OK right?



You used to poop your pants, but don't anymore. Everyone has a past.

I try to give everyone a chance, would hate to miss out good times with an interesting person because they have a colorful past.

It's extremely easy to be convicted of a crime when everything in the world is illegal. Too many people in this country willing to stick it to "those people", until they are neck deep in trouble with the law themselves because of some idiotic technicality...

the poopin your pants thing is probably the best way to put it that i have ever heard. awesome.

 

[SmokeJensen]

I'm willing to bet someone in this thread, unknown to us, has bought a firearm from a felon. I'm sure it happens daily. Most everytime I've bought a gun privately I have copied their driver license in my shooting book and asked the normal conversation about legality and reason of sell. Whether they tell me the truth as to why they sell it or if they are a felon I don't know but I do have their name, address, DL number, birthday, and whether they are organ donors wrote in my notebook. If I meet them some where I write their vehicle description and license plate # in a side note. I'm gonna cover my tail in every aspect possible. Its the chance taken buying a firearm privately.

As far as associating with felons, I have met alot of folks that are felons that are genuine people. My neighbor got a felony charge. For protecting his sister from a stalker who was attacking her. She is in a wheel chair (a paraplegic) and the guy (ex boyfriend) flipped her out and kicked her. My neighbor knocked him cold and called the PO PO. He went to jail and pulled 30 days. Aggravated Assault. Bogus. Boyfriend got 18 months but the good guy still lost. It can happen to anyone. Including you. Might be tomorrow.

Felons are not that rare. Unless you know the person extensively, you have no way of knowing if he or she is a felon. Something as simple as taking a cell phone from someone's hand can get you a felony and 3 years time.

As far as the legality of buying from felons, I have no clue about it. I just take the proper info and cover my behind at all possible.

 

[Owen Sparks]

I was a member of a shooting club a few years back and we found out that the president of the club was a convicted fellon! Long story short, the way we found out was that he was arrested for something unrelated to firearms and he fled the state. It made the local news. We elected a new president immediatly. Nothing ever came of it and the last I heard he had a heart attack and died in jail somewhere up North.

 

[Cactus Jack Arizona]

Why buy from a known felon to begin with? What if the firearm you just purchased from him/her turned out to be a firearm used in a violent crime? Is it your responsibility to turn it in to the police? Are you prepared to loose the money you paid for that firearm if it turns out that it was used in a criminal offense? You won't get your money back you know!! :banghead:

To answer your question, my answer would be no. I certainly wouldn't want a firearm that was used in a crime. Besides, could you imagine the bad karma that would come with that gun?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

There are many non-violent gray areas that can land you in felon territory. This thread hits close to home as I have a cousin who got convicted of a felony yesterday. Long story short: writing up a receipt/bill of sale for goods/services not actually rendered is considered mail fraud if you send it via mail. And that is a felony. He got 12 months in the federal pen.

He is liberal and gives me crap about owning guns, but if he had any guns, he'd be trying to sell them about now.

Basically, I'm trying to say that not all felons are necessarily evil people that you shouldn't associate with. The laws need to be changed so that only truly evil crimes are worth felony status. The average person unknowingly commits about three felonies per day. Check this out: http://www.threefelonies.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

 

[azmjs]

Might get to the "keep" (as in pay rent/taxes/mortgage for the storage) part in 18§922 definition. The bear or possess is pretty clear.

Dunno.

Realistically, I'll guess it's different if you are just Gordo and not G. Gordon Liddy.

I think it's a very interesting conundrum.

I imagine they'd have to get creative in order to stick someone for it, but at the same time it would be an almost moot point, since the felon could never legally get 'a hold' of the MG...

Legally a corporation is a "person" and a trust isn't too different, as far as owning things is concerned.

If the trust or corporation owned the building where the MG was stored, then that might get around any 'keep' issues.

 

[RatDrall]

What if the firearm you just purchased from him/her turned out to be a firearm used in a violent crime?

Then you'd better not buy a gun from anyone, aside from new from an FFL.

 

[henschman]

Thanks for the input guys.

As a criminal defense attorney, I have a very good idea of how easy it is to get convicted of a felony; and as a pro-liberty person, I believe that many felonies are illegitimate laws in the first place, and prohibit activity that folks have a natural right to do.

I myself have been charged with a felony on a gun charge, back before I was an attorney... I beat it, but it sure opened my eyes to how the system works. I can easily see how somebody with less knowledge of the law than me, or who is a little more risk averse, might have taken the plea deal I was offered and ended up with something on their record for something they didn't even do.

Hell, its bad enough just having been charged with a felony, even though I got it expunged... when I applied for admission to the state Bar, they asked whether I had been arrested or charged with any felonies. I had to go in for a special interview and explain what happened, and prove I had proper "respect for the rule of law." Ironic, considering that the highest law of the land says that those charged with crimes are innocent until proven guilty.

But suffice to say I know a thing or two about how people can end up with a felony record for actions that they did not do, or which did not in any way constitute a threat to anyone else's life, liberty, or property.

The problem is that a lot of people who don't know much about the law or the justice system think that anyone who has a felony record is a dangerous and/or immoral person, and should be ostracized and avoided. These people tend to change their views when they or someone they love end up in the sights of the criminal justice system.

 

[Hobie]

If a felon who had firearms as property he could have a third party transport them for sale. He can't have possession. I believe it often happens that after conviction felons (and those convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse charges get their guns sold ASAP. I know many dealers buy them. Many of these folks, if they are not in prison, are VERY careful to do things such as travel separately from the guns.

 

[Jim K]

As others say, a felon's possession of a firearm is a felony. Technically, if you know a person has committed a felony or is committing a felony and do not report it, you have committed what is called misprision of a felony and that in itself is a felony.

It is seldom prosecuted, but it could be. So if you want to avoid trouble, avoid felons (if possible) and run, do not walk, away from any thoughts of buying anything from one.

Jim

 

[NavyLCDR]

As others say, a felon's possession of a firearm is a felony. Technically, if you know a person has committed a felony or is committing a felony and do not report it, you have committed what is called misprision of a felony and that in itself is a felony.

Technically, Jim, you would be mistaken. Misprision of a felony requires a person to commit an act to conceal the felonious act that they have knowledge of:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000004----000-.html

§ 4. Misprision of felony
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=14806734468103617188&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

The factual basis of defendant's plea does not demonstrate the existence of "concealment," an essential element of the offense of misprision. The record of defendant's plea fails to reveal that he took "affirmative steps to conceal the crime of the principals."

...

The mere failure to report a felony is not sufficient to constitute a violation of 18 U.S.C.A. § 4. Lancey v. United States, 356 F.2d 407 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 385 U.S. 922, 87 S.Ct. 234, 17 L.Ed.2d 145 (1966).

 

[snubbies]

Gun Control Act

The Act only deals with the disposition of a fire arm not the acquisition. It would depend on if there were a State law or not. In Illinois a FOID card is required to legally obtain a firearm. A convicted felon could not obtain a FOID. Therefore any gun he posseses would be owned illegally. Would you then be in possession of stolen property????

 

[brickeyee]

For example, in Florida jaywalking with a child is a felony. In Michigan, accessing the free WiFi from outside a business is a felony. Apparently in Texas simply spanking your child can make you a felon.

Any convictions?

There are lots of things in the law that no one has ever been convicted under.

This type of argument is a red herring, at best.

 

[Zundfolge]

Any convictions?

Two of the three links I posted.

There are lots of things in the law that no one has ever been convicted under.

Doesn't matter. If we're going by the notion that someone with a felony conviction is an irretrievably bad person, than the simple act of COMMITTING a felony makes you equally bad (regardless of arrest or conviction or even knowledge of said crimes).

This type of argument is a red herring, at best.

So you're standing by the position that absolutely 100% of people arrested and convicted of felonies are irretrievably evil people that deserve to have their second amendment rights (among others) permanently revoked and their company should be avoided at all costs?

 

[snubbies]

Forever BAD

There is no way of knowing if a convicted felon will change. The laws were written to protect from those who will not or have not changed.

 

[wh!plash]

We all know that if you're convicted of a felony, you're supposed to get rid of your guns. Guns are still valuable private property, and I supposed a felony doesn't mean that your private property should all of a sudden have no monetary value just because you're legally obligated to not own them.

I'd have no problem purchasing a firearm from a felon who is trying to comply with the law.

FWIW, I don't believe that any person with a felony conviction should never be associated with for any purpose. Like was stated earlier, its amazing what they count as a felony these days. Violent and repeat offenders are a completely different story, in which I agree that they generally offer little value to society.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Forever BAD

There is no way of knowing if a convicted felon will change. The laws were written to protect from those who will not or have not changed.

So we say, "You are safe enough to walk the streets as a 'free' person, but let's make it illegal for you to possess a firearm."

The problem with the blanket law prohibiting possession of firearms by felons who are free to walk the street is that it only affects those felons that have been successfully rehabilitated and will obey the law.

How does the law protect anyone from the felons what will not or have not changed? If the won't or have not changed, they won't obey the law anyway.

 

[Sav .250]

If you get what ever he want`s to sell at a great price......with out question.

Plus,.........you keep it out of the hands of another felon.

 

[FourTeeFive]

I stay away from my buddy's buddy who is a convicted felon. No good could come from associating w/ him.

A buddy of mine was convicted by a jury of firearms violations that they didn't understand. He did time in a federal facility and as far as I and others can tell he didn't actually break any laws. But he was convicted. There is a big difference.

As an attorney I know says, "our legal system has very little to do with what is right, and everything to do with who has the best lawyers."

 

[snubbies]

No sense!!!

Any position supporting allowing Convicted Felons to own guns ignores the recidivism rate in this country. An attorney who advocates the position stated above is part of the problem. Granted the law abiding ex-felon is put at a disadvantage. He is in this position because of what he did not what society has done. We don't allow the mentally ill to own firearms because of their instability. We don't allow ex-convicts to own firearms because of their history in crime.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Had this happen to a relative. Before he went to court his hunting rifle went into my safe, as his parents didn't have a place to store it.

We agreed to a fair price paid to the parents, as they were 'in charge' of his legal affairs.

Colorado doesn't require a paper transfer on private sales, problem solved faily easily.

 

[CapnMac]

The laws were written to protect from those who will not or have not changed.

Actually, the concept of felonies and misdemeanors goes back to feudal times, as away of dividing those crimes a local constable or squire could punish, and those requiring a person of noble blood. Nobles were then subdivided into being able to dispense either "high" or "low" justice, too.

The life-time bans on various activities after being convicted a felon (voting, being a barber, etc.) were written in a time when all persons were considered literate enough to understand the consequences of illegality, and that those consequences would be a deterrent thereby.

Which is a high and fine goal--it's just diluted when walking across a state line with a potted plant is a felony (like in Texarkana); or drifting across the midline of the Rio Grande with a cane pole longer than 25mm . . .

We, gun owners, have a terrible onus upon us. We remain franchised only so long as we are scrupulously legal. Often to well beyond mere appearance, too.

And, it's a burden we ought bear knowingly. The "knowing" part being key. If, on the drive to the deer lease or waterfowl pond, are you sure you did not willfully violate wetlands regulations by driving a vehicle through them? Last half-decent WAG I read estimated that there are three to four thousand potential felonies per person, on average, anywhere in the US, presently written into law. So many, they often contradict each other.

If a felony only meant a crime where grievous harm did or could have occurred, then, that would be different. Transporting agricultural products across state lines without a permit?

 

[kurt1305]

Someone would have to show me the statute that specifically prohibits buying an otherwise legal gun from a felon.

 

[Deanimator]

Once a gun owner becomes convicted of a felony,
he has to get rid of the guns.

Precisely, and that's exactly how I got the S&W Model 36 that I carry. A lawyer friend had a client who was going up the river for kiddie porn and he needed to get rid of the gun. I got it for $200, one of the best deals I've gotten on a handgun.