Illinois FOID card to sell ammo
- Thread starter gfpd707
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I don't know what the law says, but anytime I buy ammo at Walmart, they always have to track down an employee with a FOID to ring up the sale.
You might find something on the ISP website.
http://www.isp.state.il.us/
You might find something on the ISP website.
http://www.isp.state.il.us/
larryh1108
Member
For the cashier to sell you the ammo, he/she must possess it to ring it up. Stupid but that's how the law is treated by retailers there.
PorkChopsMmm
Member
Back when I lived in IL, ~ 1 year ago, I bought ammo at a Dick's on the outskirts of Chicago. A 18yr old girl rang me up and checked my FOID. Can someone who is 18 get a FOID? They didn't call anyone over and she certainly didn't present herself as familiar with ammo or the FOID process.
il.bill
Member
The retailer may have that policy, which would be their right in their own establishment, but it is not Illinois State Law that requires the clerk to possess a FOID card.
Another misconception is that a person must have a FOID card to legally pick up or handle a firearm, for example when shopping to buy one. That is stated nowhere in the statutes. The retailer may require it, but to handle a firearm when looking at it, the state says nothing. To buy and/or possess a firearm, a FOID is definitely needed to be in compliance with Illinois law.
Illinois - the ONLY state in the USA with no provision for civilian concealed or open carry in public. But ... the clock is ticking
My son got his FOID card when he was 14.
Until he's 21 he's not able to PURCHASE handgun ammo, or possess a handgun unless he's under the direct supervision of an adult. He can't purchase rifle ammo until he's 18.
But he can keep a long gun loaded for self defense if babysitting the rest of my kids. (He's 15 now).
PorkChopsMmm
Member
Good to know, thanks Trent.
What is wrong with Illinois 
I always thought of it as a reasonable state with normal people for the most part.
Yet every time you turn around a governor is going to jail or some other major politician indited. That combined with some of the most restrictive gun and ammos laws in the country, and you just have to scratch your head and wonder WTH?
I always thought of it as a reasonable state with normal people for the most part.
Yet every time you turn around a governor is going to jail or some other major politician indited. That combined with some of the most restrictive gun and ammos laws in the country, and you just have to scratch your head and wonder WTH?
We're drifting a little here but since the question has been raised:
Don't get me wrong - there are a LOT of decisions that go in to leaving a minor in charge of a firearm, and it's NOT something to be taken lightly, ever!
Under IL Law, we have the Child Protection act.
From the Illinois State Police website:
Then we have this, from the same FAQ:
This also applies to ANY person babysitting your children. If ALL of your firearms are not locked up, your babysitter must have an FOID card.
But, this is a long topic and probably best reserved for a different thread, so I'll summarize.
The way the law is written, leaving a minor with access to weapons you can be charged with a crime IF the minor causes death or great bodily harm to someone, unless it is in justifiable self-defense (which in IL means preventing death or serious bodily harm to you or another, another topic altogether..).
Federal and state law provide further restrictions on the possession of handguns if the person is under 21 and not accompanied by an adult (some would argue 18, but we're talking about Illinois, which restricts the TRANSFER of a handgun to someone under 21). Which is why I specifically said "long gun" earlier.
You DO have to consider "what if a friend of my child visits while you are away, gains access to a firearm, and uses it to shoot someone". In that case, you are criminally liable.
So the mindset, trustworthiness, and maturity of the minor comes in to play.
All of my children over 12 know where the firearms are, and how to operate them. I'd rather have my children alive and me in trouble, than my children killed by an intruder (which happened 30 miles from here a couple of years ago; all children in the house save the 3 year old were slain by an intruder, the 3 year old was life-flighted in critical condition and survived).
But this is a very personal decision. If you decide to allow a minor access to a firearm while you are away you have a VERY serious responsibility to provide high quality training to them, not just on safe and responsible use of firearms, but also a serious talk about justifiable lethal force.
Hearing a bump in the night is not justification to grab a gun and investigate. Firearms are for a LAST RESORT - an intruder is IN the house (or forcefully trying to break in) and intends to do harm.
It's a real touchy subject, for sure.
Don't get me wrong - there are a LOT of decisions that go in to leaving a minor in charge of a firearm, and it's NOT something to be taken lightly, ever!
Under IL Law, we have the Child Protection act.
From the Illinois State Police website:
Then we have this, from the same FAQ:
This also applies to ANY person babysitting your children. If ALL of your firearms are not locked up, your babysitter must have an FOID card.
But, this is a long topic and probably best reserved for a different thread, so I'll summarize.
The way the law is written, leaving a minor with access to weapons you can be charged with a crime IF the minor causes death or great bodily harm to someone, unless it is in justifiable self-defense (which in IL means preventing death or serious bodily harm to you or another, another topic altogether..).
Federal and state law provide further restrictions on the possession of handguns if the person is under 21 and not accompanied by an adult (some would argue 18, but we're talking about Illinois, which restricts the TRANSFER of a handgun to someone under 21). Which is why I specifically said "long gun" earlier.
You DO have to consider "what if a friend of my child visits while you are away, gains access to a firearm, and uses it to shoot someone". In that case, you are criminally liable.
So the mindset, trustworthiness, and maturity of the minor comes in to play.
All of my children over 12 know where the firearms are, and how to operate them. I'd rather have my children alive and me in trouble, than my children killed by an intruder (which happened 30 miles from here a couple of years ago; all children in the house save the 3 year old were slain by an intruder, the 3 year old was life-flighted in critical condition and survived).
But this is a very personal decision. If you decide to allow a minor access to a firearm while you are away you have a VERY serious responsibility to provide high quality training to them, not just on safe and responsible use of firearms, but also a serious talk about justifiable lethal force.
Hearing a bump in the night is not justification to grab a gun and investigate. Firearms are for a LAST RESORT - an intruder is IN the house (or forcefully trying to break in) and intends to do harm.
It's a real touchy subject, for sure.
Xfire68
Member
That is a rhetorical question right? LOL
The "what right with Illinois" list would be the short read. #1 Nothing!
I really wish I could move!:banghead:
larryh1108
Member
I totally disagree with your assumption. There is no FFL dealer in IL who will hand you a firearm without you presenting a valid FOID card. It is not some rule determined by the seller. I used to sell at IL gun shows and the rules are fully explained to us before the show opens; no one can handle a firearm or ammo without first presenting a valid FOID card. The state and local police walk around the show making sure this is enforced. If someone from a neighboring state is of age to possess a long gun and presents a valid state ID then he can handle it or rifle ammo.
Below is a copy and paste from the IL law site with the link after. It specifically states you cannot possess a firearm without a FOID card. If someone hands you a pistol or ammo, you do possess it. That is against IL law. It is black and white, no grey area.
(430 ILCS 65/2) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-2)
Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions.
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm,
stun gun, or taser within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
(2) No person may acquire or possess firearm
ammunition within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.
link:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...tName=Firearm+Owners+Identification+Card+Act.
Neo-Luddite
Member
The law does not address the issue in specific terms, but by making the sale the retail cashier is indeed possessing the ammo at least momentarily. Maybe we let this go lest someone decide IL needs an 'ammo seller's' permit. On a related topic; I am waiting on FOID cards for my 8 & 9 year old daughters. It should be no problem. You got to love this state. Maybe when they arrive I'll send the girls into Walmart to buy some 12 ga shells just for kicks.
This is interesting. The two shops I frequent the most requires me to present my FOID card when I want to handle a gun in their display.
However, both places will allow me to bring a non- FOID holding guest to their ranges to shoot. Typically, a new shooter who has not yet applied for one.
In this case, who would be breaking the law, me, the new shooter or the shop owner?
The shop owner, and the person handling it if they are a prohibited person. But this doesn't apply to shooting ranges, or training classes.
I recently ran across this at an NRA basic training event. The instructor that ran the class doesn't require people to have an FOID card. The course includes live-fire, with instructor supplied firearms if you don't have one.
The relevant area of law is here:
If the shooting range is SUPERVISED, or the attendee is under the direct supervision of a card holder, they don't need an FOID card to participate.
Same for training classes.
EDIT: Keep in mind, a prohibited person is still a prohibited person; don't take a person on probation, parole, a felon, or someone who is otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm with you, or YOU would be guilty of a felony for giving them access to a firearm.
This is why MOST shooting ranges that I've seen require you to show an FOID card. While it doesn't GUARANTEE the person isn't prohibited - I've seen denied 4473's for valid reasons such as felony indictment, when the person STILL had the FOID in their possession - it does INDEMNIFY the person. If you see their FOID card and sell them a weapon, you are indemnified from prosecution if they are a prohibited person because they've shown you an FOID card. And THAT came straight from a lawyer in the PPITH class I was in last weekend.
I recently ran across this at an NRA basic training event. The instructor that ran the class doesn't require people to have an FOID card. The course includes live-fire, with instructor supplied firearms if you don't have one.
The relevant area of law is here:
If the shooting range is SUPERVISED, or the attendee is under the direct supervision of a card holder, they don't need an FOID card to participate.
Same for training classes.
EDIT: Keep in mind, a prohibited person is still a prohibited person; don't take a person on probation, parole, a felon, or someone who is otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm with you, or YOU would be guilty of a felony for giving them access to a firearm.
This is why MOST shooting ranges that I've seen require you to show an FOID card. While it doesn't GUARANTEE the person isn't prohibited - I've seen denied 4473's for valid reasons such as felony indictment, when the person STILL had the FOID in their possession - it does INDEMNIFY the person. If you see their FOID card and sell them a weapon, you are indemnified from prosecution if they are a prohibited person because they've shown you an FOID card. And THAT came straight from a lawyer in the PPITH class I was in last weekend.
No problem Blue.
Illinois has REALLY confusing laws on guns. I've been active on RKBA for over 15 years and I'm *still* learning about them. This last weekend was a real eye-opener, when the lawyer presented the section in the NRA's Personal Protection of the Home course, that single section lasted over 3 hours, and there were a LOT of questions asked.
I learned a great deal in that class.
I also had some VERY long standing misconceptions rotated 180 degrees in my head.
Illinois has REALLY confusing laws on guns. I've been active on RKBA for over 15 years and I'm *still* learning about them. This last weekend was a real eye-opener, when the lawyer presented the section in the NRA's Personal Protection of the Home course, that single section lasted over 3 hours, and there were a LOT of questions asked.
I learned a great deal in that class.
I also had some VERY long standing misconceptions rotated 180 degrees in my head.
IL law on this is pretty clear. You cannot legally possess ammo without a FOID card. You cannot legally sell something you do not possess.
This has been the law for a long time although it has often been ignored.
The reason many gun dealers will not let you look at a gun without looking at your FOID first is because by handing you the gun they are in the eyes of the state of IL transferring it to you temporarily. Several dealers have been nailed for this. I don't recall just how it worked out but most dealers these days want to see the card first.
This has been the law for a long time although it has often been ignored.
The reason many gun dealers will not let you look at a gun without looking at your FOID first is because by handing you the gun they are in the eyes of the state of IL transferring it to you temporarily. Several dealers have been nailed for this. I don't recall just how it worked out but most dealers these days want to see the card first.
stonecutter2
Member
I believe there is no age limit on when someone can get a FOID.
The only requirement is if the person is a minor, a parent or guardian must apply for them. The application has specific questions directed at any offenses committed by the minor, like if they had been an adult - would the offense be a felony, has the minor ever been adjudicated deliquent, and so forth.
If 18 or over, you must provide a driver's license # or state ID #.
stonecutter2
Member
What is wrong with Illinois
I always thought of it as a reasonable state with normal people for the most part.
Yet every time you turn around a governor is going to jail or some other major politician indited. That combined with some of the most restrictive gun and ammos laws in the country, and you just have to scratch your head and wonder WTH?
Here's the thing about Illinois.
Let's first talk about the people in the state outside of the Chicago area, and it's suburbs. They're mostly reasonable. Okay, that's out of the way.
As for Chicago, it has big city problems that no one has really addressed. No one will address them until the adults grow up and realize that guns aren't committing the crimes, thugs are...and someone deals with the gang culture and tries to really make a difference.
I really believe the folks in the suburbs generally are anti-gun because there are few places to shoot, and many people simply never owned guns or knew anyone who owned guns and shot them with any regularity. I grew up in the 'burbs and the only gun I ever saw was my Dad's shotgun that he used to hunt with - before he moved to the suburbs and started a family. I never saw my Dad go hunting. There just isn't the same gun culture in the suburbs as there is outside of Chicago and the suburbs. Ignorance about guns leads to people fearing them, and deciding that "no one needs them." It's easier to blame guns than the idiots running around in the streets of Chicago. If they didn't have guns, they couldn't kill and be gang thugs right? Yeah, right...
Understand that population density in the Chicago area means that the area dictates state-wide laws and elections. Take a look at the 2010 gubernatorial election results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_gubernatorial_election,_2010
The blue is Quinn. And he won. But it was by a narrow margin.
What is sad is that Illinois started the FOID program in 1968 as a means of doing background checks when there was nothing on a federal level to do that. I'm actually proud that Illinois started to try to make sure that people who shouldn't own a gun don't just go in a store and buy one. The problem was that it continued to be arrogant enough to leave that structure in place after the government got with the program and did federal checks.
The FOID system is mostly a revenue stream and a hassle to law-abiding Illinois gun owners. The one thing I do like about it is that at LEAST you know in a private sale that if someone shows you their FOID, they went through a state police background check. If you commit a felony you have to surrender your FOID. Sorry but just seeing a driver's license to sell a gun was never something that made me feel comfortable - just because someone can drive doesn't mean they should be able to buy a gun.
Corruption has always been a problem in this state, and I can only hope that we see an end to that nonsense in this or the next generation. At least now it's being uncovered and people are being held accountable.
I know it's easy to pick on Illinois and laugh. As a lifelong resident I must say that I've determined to do what I can to reform this state's ways - but then again, I'm not in Chicago. And Chicago dictates what happens in Illinois. I will be supporting the next Republican candidate for governor of Illinois because i'm tired of the nonsense in this state.
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I can tell you that when I visit IL, the local Gander store won't sell me ammo or allow me to handle any firearms in thier store because I do not have a FOID card. I am not a resident of IL and also my job allows me to carry a weapon. I also don't overtly display my weapon or badge. I don't want any special privledges cause I'm in law enforcement but IL laws are messed up and the stores are afraid they'll get a violation if they break some of these rules/laws.
il.bill
Member
I stand corrected. I had read the pertinent ILCS sections many times, but my understanding of 'acquire' and 'possess' have been duly modified, now that I possess the knowledge of this interpretation, having acquired it from the good folks on THR.
il.bill
Member
While many, if not most, of the firearm laws in Illinois do not appear conducive to the security of law abiding individuals or to society, I am often surprised how some other states have even more draconian statutes in place, as regards such things as limiting people to only buying one handgun per month or needing the county sheriff to sign off on sales between individuals. While it is disconcerting to me that Illinois is the only state in the USA that still has no provision for civilian concealed or open carry in place (although the constitutional clock is ticking on that as I post) I appreciate the concept of 'State Sovereignty' (part of our state motto, flag, and seal). Working within the federal constitutional framework, we do not need Massachusetts or North Carolina or anyone else telling us how to live in our state, just as Texas or Florida does not need interference from Illinois.
Black Butte
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In Illinois, you need government approval to use the restroom.
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