I'm a student at Saint Cloud State University in Saint Cloud Minnesota. I can say that the Del-Ton gun range is anything but fun. The cost is outrageous for a student such as myself to go shoot for a couple hours (15$) and then the no rapid fire rule keeps me from doing any defensive style practice with my revolver or my 9mm CZ. They are "Fuds" or so it seems like to me. Which is really silly seeing as DPMS is probably 200 feet from the range itself. I had thought about going to the Zombie shoot last year but thinking about the restrictive rules and price kept me from doing it. It sounds like I didn't miss much.
I'm at a complete loss here.. zombies, really?
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zxcvbob
Member
You've obviously never heard of the Zombie AntiDefamation League (zadl.org)
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Stradawhovious
Member
"And yes, it's a serious match with a fun back story. Sounds like a win win. "
It's anything but a serious match. The paper Zombie targets are not changed until riddled with holes from several shooters making it impossible to see your hits, stages are not timed or scored, and there are no rankings or standings of any kind. The only thing that even slightly resembles a "serious match" was the fact that they used shot timers to alert you when to start shooting. They wouldn't let you see the times, nor were they recorded or used for anything. It's a PR move from DPMS that could be SO much more if they put their mind to it. I hope tihs year is different, but by the expected attendance, I'm not sure how it could be.
It's anything but a serious match. The paper Zombie targets are not changed until riddled with holes from several shooters making it impossible to see your hits, stages are not timed or scored, and there are no rankings or standings of any kind. The only thing that even slightly resembles a "serious match" was the fact that they used shot timers to alert you when to start shooting. They wouldn't let you see the times, nor were they recorded or used for anything. It's a PR move from DPMS that could be SO much more if they put their mind to it. I hope tihs year is different, but by the expected attendance, I'm not sure how it could be.
As I've been telling you people for years, you'll understand why proper zombie firearms training is so vital when the impending zombie invasion occurs. My sources indicate that the zombies are infiltrating high levels of our municipal and county offices to help when the uprising time comes. They will attack emergency response teams and take out communication resources at a local level. The more zombie-specific training you have, the better.
Oh sure, snicker if you want; but you'll remember this Thread some day when you watch a teeming mass of zombie fury decending onto your property.....
Oh sure, snicker if you want; but you'll remember this Thread some day when you watch a teeming mass of zombie fury decending onto your property.....
I don't agree that the reason zombies are the focus of a shoot like this one is political correctness. It probably has much more to do with the zombie fandom that has grown out of zombie movies and zombie based games. While those might be argued as having their basis in political correctness I'd be skeptical of that as well.
It's disappointing to hear the actual event is poorly run and that there's no attempt to make it a competitive event. More of a zombie themed gun playground than a match. What a great opportunity squandered and a real threat to the shooting community if safety is as lax as recounted.
It's disappointing to hear the actual event is poorly run and that there's no attempt to make it a competitive event. More of a zombie themed gun playground than a match. What a great opportunity squandered and a real threat to the shooting community if safety is as lax as recounted.
In a way, it sort of reminds me of sporting clays shooting. Seems like a way to bring some fun into out sport. If safety is observed, what's the harm? I've spent many Sunday afternoons at the dump shooting rats. Zombies and rats don't have very good public images so who cares if they get blown away?
DC3-CVN-72
Member
I'm with Fremmer on this one !
sargas23
Member
Zundfolge,
I shoot with a lot of those "bluebloods" and "humorless" bullseye, free pistol, and skeet/trap shooters and I think you are completely wrong. Every one of them is deeply committed to teaching and sharing their sport with others and stressing that you don't need to go out and buy an expensive gun in order to enjoy yourself at the range. SASS and IDPA/IPSC interest has grown over the last few years and I think that's great, but they are not the sole reason for an increased interest in shooting.
The best way to move the shooting sports forward is to get more people to shoot. Bring a new shooter to the range and teach them safety rules, etc. That's the way to further our sport, not sniping at someone who enjoys a different type of shooting from your choice.
I shoot with a lot of those "bluebloods" and "humorless" bullseye, free pistol, and skeet/trap shooters and I think you are completely wrong. Every one of them is deeply committed to teaching and sharing their sport with others and stressing that you don't need to go out and buy an expensive gun in order to enjoy yourself at the range. SASS and IDPA/IPSC interest has grown over the last few years and I think that's great, but they are not the sole reason for an increased interest in shooting.
The best way to move the shooting sports forward is to get more people to shoot. Bring a new shooter to the range and teach them safety rules, etc. That's the way to further our sport, not sniping at someone who enjoys a different type of shooting from your choice.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Sounds like it'd be a good concept if it was run by folks as serious as those who run Superstition Mountain, Rocky Mountain 3Gun, the FN Midwest 3Gun match, or any of the other national-level matches.
No times? No scoring? Then what's the point?
Also, Zund, when did you start going to Bullseye matches?
No times? No scoring? Then what's the point?
Also, Zund, when did you start going to Bullseye matches?
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I've never gotten the feeling that the zombie thing was primarily an issue of political correctness.
The only 3Gun match I've shot that had a zombie theme was a local match around Halloween of last year, and the guy who runs it did it specifically as a Halloween thing.
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
SpecialK, i've belonged to ranges that have no rapid fire rules. they are generally relaxed for certain purposes, and it looks like that happens for this event.
some of the you tube videos had folks running stages with an M249 for instance, and everyone was shooting much faster the 1/sec. There were also plenty of timers in evidence, so im not sure that there is no scoring either.
some of the you tube videos had folks running stages with an M249 for instance, and everyone was shooting much faster the 1/sec. There were also plenty of timers in evidence, so im not sure that there is no scoring either.
bigalexe
Member
On the subject of the OP: A zombie shoot sounds like a cool idea, it's just a themed competition anyway where you get to shoot themed targets with a little backstory on the stages. Really to me it seems like a modernized Cowboy Action Sports with the inspiration being pop-culture as opposed to historical accuracy, it sounds just as fun.
On the subject of Rapid-Fire Rules:
I frequent 2 local gun clubs with ranges. The one of which I am a member has a pretty much open-range policy for members and the only real rules are "Do it safely, Don't Upset the neighbors, Don't shoot after posted hours or Dusk: Whichever comes first." Now the other club I shoot at I have only been to with certified RSO's on-site (I am not a member) and they do have a rapid fire rule, however as a result I only go there when I need to do sight-in and scope-zeroing type stuff.
However there is another aspect worth mentioning. The club I am a member of has concrete/welded steel benches (no im not kidding its welded angle-irons with concrete poured in them) and no pavilion or any other improvements to speak of besides a concrete pad the benches are bolted to. The other club has a full pavilion, clearly marked ranges and a lot more concrete which means much less mud. So there are some creature comfort trade-offs.
On the subject of Rapid-Fire Rules:
I frequent 2 local gun clubs with ranges. The one of which I am a member has a pretty much open-range policy for members and the only real rules are "Do it safely, Don't Upset the neighbors, Don't shoot after posted hours or Dusk: Whichever comes first." Now the other club I shoot at I have only been to with certified RSO's on-site (I am not a member) and they do have a rapid fire rule, however as a result I only go there when I need to do sight-in and scope-zeroing type stuff.
However there is another aspect worth mentioning. The club I am a member of has concrete/welded steel benches (no im not kidding its welded angle-irons with concrete poured in them) and no pavilion or any other improvements to speak of besides a concrete pad the benches are bolted to. The other club has a full pavilion, clearly marked ranges and a lot more concrete which means much less mud. So there are some creature comfort trade-offs.
Cosmoline
Member
I get the sense this is just getting started. It could end up being like CAS with different style targets and post-apocalyptic firearms.
Stradawhovious
Member
"some of the you tube videos had folks running stages with an M249 for instance, and everyone was shooting much faster the 1/sec. There were also plenty of timers in evidence, so im not sure that there is no scoring either."
I shot rapid fire and didn't get kicked out and so did everyone else. I'm pretty sure that rule is overlooked for that day. They were having demos with full autos throughout the day.
As far as the timers are concerned....... Trust me. They are only there for the beep. There was no scoring, or recorded times last year.
I shot rapid fire and didn't get kicked out and so did everyone else. I'm pretty sure that rule is overlooked for that day. They were having demos with full autos throughout the day.
As far as the timers are concerned....... Trust me. They are only there for the beep. There was no scoring, or recorded times last year.
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browningguy
Member
It looks like fun to me.
Vicious-Peanut
Member
Sounds like a good time.
The first 3-gun I helped set up had a zombie stage. You had to make them all head shots AND there were some "fleeing citizens" silhouettes in the stage you had to not hit as well as a couple of "victim" silhouettes that had been caught by the zombie targets. It started in the cab of a truck with pistol and ended in the bed of the truck with long guns. 
We giggled as we set it up and people guffawed seeing it for the first time.
We also had a "rescue the bride" scenario where my wife donated her wedding veil for the dummy in the dress.
We should never hesitate to try to make things fun for each other and new shooters, as long as we take safety seriously.
We giggled as we set it up and people guffawed seeing it for the first time.
We also had a "rescue the bride" scenario where my wife donated her wedding veil for the dummy in the dress.
We should never hesitate to try to make things fun for each other and new shooters, as long as we take safety seriously.
Equestrian
Member
sounds like it could have the potential to be good fun id love to do something like this
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Just make sure you make it a real competition with incentives to shoot well. If I'd signed up for the Omega thing, paid my money, paid for travel & accomodations, and then found out on match day that they aren't scoring, aren't timing, and I can't even check my targets, I'd have been FURIOUS! (Hopefully the shooters who do attend are warned ahead of time that this is how it would be.)
If I showed up at such a thing and discovered it was all just a hose-fest, I'd probably save my ammo and go home.
What a strange concept.
There are a ton of folks who had a great time at the last 2 Outbreak:Omegas. One thing a lot of people forget is that it's not technically a competition and isn't billed as one. It's a Fun Shoot designed to give the average Joe an opportunity to come out to a large event, mingle with like minded gun enthusiasts, take out some zombies and win some pretty sweet prizes for their efforts. All in a loosely 3 gun style format.
Nothing is based on how you shoot. Someone could be the absolute best shooter in the entire country and come away with a t-shirt and a shot glass while the gal who just took the price tag off of her first gun ends up winning a $1900 rifle. This was done intentionally to entice new shooters to come out to get a taste of what's available in 3 gun competitions. The hope is that they'll have a good enough time shooting and talking to other more experienced shooters to get involved at local competitions/ranges. That in turn grows the sport and brings in new competitors who just maybe knock the top 10 guys (who always win everything, every time) off their pedestals.
That being said, we did have some issues at the last shoot that we think have been addressed. We're adding new steel targets for the rifle bays that will give you a report on whether you're hitting the zombie brainbox. We've also added more stages and an extra day to try to cut down on the wait times.
As for the Rapid Fire Rule (one round per second max), as long as shooters are safely and accurately engaging targets, it's pretty much a non issue. Double tapping zombie heads in the pistol and rifle bays is absolutely fine. Nobody is going to stand behind a shooter counting "one mississippi, two mississippi", but if someone were to launch a round over a berm while bump firing an AR or trying to go "super tactical rapid fire", they'd be going home early. The rule is in place for safety's sake because the majority of shooters simply cannot engage a target (especially at any significant range) any faster than about 1 round per second safely and accurately.
Nothing is based on how you shoot. Someone could be the absolute best shooter in the entire country and come away with a t-shirt and a shot glass while the gal who just took the price tag off of her first gun ends up winning a $1900 rifle. This was done intentionally to entice new shooters to come out to get a taste of what's available in 3 gun competitions. The hope is that they'll have a good enough time shooting and talking to other more experienced shooters to get involved at local competitions/ranges. That in turn grows the sport and brings in new competitors who just maybe knock the top 10 guys (who always win everything, every time) off their pedestals.
That being said, we did have some issues at the last shoot that we think have been addressed. We're adding new steel targets for the rifle bays that will give you a report on whether you're hitting the zombie brainbox. We've also added more stages and an extra day to try to cut down on the wait times.
As for the Rapid Fire Rule (one round per second max), as long as shooters are safely and accurately engaging targets, it's pretty much a non issue. Double tapping zombie heads in the pistol and rifle bays is absolutely fine. Nobody is going to stand behind a shooter counting "one mississippi, two mississippi", but if someone were to launch a round over a berm while bump firing an AR or trying to go "super tactical rapid fire", they'd be going home early. The rule is in place for safety's sake because the majority of shooters simply cannot engage a target (especially at any significant range) any faster than about 1 round per second safely and accurately.
Keauxbi
Member
Sounds like a poorly planned good idea.
To me, target practice is fun and all, but the chance to shoot at a Zombie target or otherwise (I'm a geek so don't get me started on potential targets) just adds a level of interest. If a simple silhouette target cost $2 per sheet I'd pay double for zombie, cylon or storm trooper (Nazi or Imperial Fleet). If it were really about politically correctness then the shoot side would be a simple circle target and the no shoot side would be a rainbow.
This would explain Nancy Reid and Henry Pelosi.
THE DARK KNIGHT
Member
Looks awesome, I'd love to go!
How is it any more stupid than people dressing up in cowboy costumes and callin themselves "Big Tex the Outlaw" at a SASS event?
How is it any more stupid than people dressing up in cowboy costumes and callin themselves "Big Tex the Outlaw" at a SASS event?
SwordRapier
Member
It's LARP'ing with a rifle. Sounds like fun.
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