I'm never selling a Rock River again!

[Gunnerpalace]

Everybody else is just a hacker with a machine shop trying to follow a drawing

That just made me "crack" up...........now I need a new keyboard,

 

[MAKster]

Armalite sold the rights to the AR-15 to Colt's because they were unable to get any military contracts. Since Colt's was the supplier of the 1911 to the military they had the inside connections at the Defense Dept and in no time convinced the military to adopt the AR. If Armalite didn't sell the rights to Colt, the AR might of never gotten off the ground.

 

[George Hill]

The smoking crack comment I made comes from my time with Cisco Systems. First goal of trouble shooting a networking issue is identification of who smoked the crack. That came directly from Cisco btw. The user (layer 1 or config issues) or the router may have smoked a little or the tech who isn't seeing the solution to something that could be obvious.

I'm much more of a BMW guy than a Ford guy even if right now I'm driving a Ford.

 

[MacPelto]

Now, AR=semi-auto Mr. Potato head.

HAHAHAHAAA!! I'm not really contributing here, but Iwanted to give credit for the funniest thing I've read so far this week.

Mac

 

[SilentArmy]

RRA stripped lowers here are $139 and no wait! I just sent in a form 1 on one for an SBR project. This is the tightest fitting lower I have ever assembled. the area of the rear pin needs dremeled out some.
No problems filling the 6 pos stock though. Maybe the OP got a lemon or is on the crack!

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

That's why I only buy Colt 1911s or AR15s. They know what the drawings do not show. Everybody else is just a hacker with a machine shop trying to follow a drawing.

Colt makes a fine AR15, but believe it or not, they do not make the best.

Plus, if you want issues with parts interchangeability, Colts large pins will do it for you...

 

[aloharover]

RRA stripped lowers here are $139 and no wait!

I meant direct from RRA.

From the time I place my order until they arrive in the shop takes 4-6 months.
Now I am a small shop and only order a dozen or so at a time, so am probably low on their radar. But the same order with Double Star, CMMG, or DPMS I have in my hands in 4-5 days.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The current Armalite is not related to the past Armalite; but the President of the current Armalite who purchased the name is Mark Westrom.

Mr. Westrom is a former Army Ordnance Officer (Colonel?) and a civilian employee at the Weapons System Management Directorate (Rock Island) prior to starting up Armalite. He definitely knows a thing or two about the AR. You can see evidence of this in Armalite being the first company to offer a midlength years before it caught on anywhere else.

As to RRA and stocks, I haven't messed with any lately; but there is some manufacturer out there that decided to use a pot metal castle nut on their telestocks. They loctite the castle nut instead of staking it because it will shatter if you try to stake it. Found that out the hard way.

 

[Outlaws]

I suppose they may consider AR to be ARmalite instead of Armalite Rifle.

Correct, AR = Armalite

 

[MachIVshooter]

Which is why I have no idea why they list their Turkish CZ copies as AR-24's. Should be AP-24's. I suppose they may consider AR to be ARmalite instead of Armalite Rifle. Who knows.

Though I can't say why they chose to continue that terminolgy with the pistols, AR does not reflect ARmalite, as the company was originally Designated ArmaLite; Would have been AL. This is evidenced by the SR designation of Knights rifles after Stoner joined the company in 1990.

I've been trying to find the source I'd orignally found this tidbit on, but google is not working with me.

 

[Nightcrawler]

As to RRA and stocks, I haven't messed with any lately; but there is some manufacturer out there that decided to use a pot metal castle nut on their telestocks. They loctite the castle nut instead of staking it because it will shatter if you try to stake it. Found that out the hard way.

I watched our own PvtPyle do just that in his shop trying to re-stock a Rock River carbine for a police officer. Thing was held on with red Loc-Tite.

 

[Outlaws]

Though I can't say why they chose to continue that terminolgy with the pistols, AR does not reflect ARmalite, as the company was originally Designated ArmaLite; Would have been AL. This is evidenced by the SR designation of Knights rifles after Stoner joined the company in 1990.

It stands for Armalite.

To this day Colt’s has a model designation with the letters
AR, which stands for “ArmaLite”.

http://www.armalite.com/images/Library\AL HISTORY COPY 2.pdf

 

[flynlr]

I had to use a 6 foot cheater bar to get the the castle nut off my RRA stock
%^$*@^& loctite. I just wanted to put on a sling adapter. after getting it off
I staked the nut and all is good now.

 

[BigG]

Colt makes a fine AR15, but believe it or not, they do not make the best.

Plus, if you want issues with parts interchangeability, Colts large pins will do it for you

Yes they do. I don't play with my AR15 like a Lego set so the standard Colts with either large pin or small have been 100% reliable for me. I'm an enthusiast with a lot of gun experience, not somebody who learned about guns by playing video games. BTW, just try and get your money back out of your Lego AR15. I can get every penny and then some out of my Colts.

 

[jonboynumba1]

I've had very good luck with RRA's products...but after jerking me around and making my last 2 customers wait 6 months (actually last one was 7 months promised in 8-12 weeks!) They can keep their crap. The next to last one the upper and lower fit tight...in truth a little too tight to make me comfortable with it...I nearly grabbed another upper and gave up. (that never has happened before with any of the dozens I've sold) The last one was fine...I had to threaten to send the last upper back for a chargeback to get them to "find" me a lower after 7 months...they didn't have any...oh wait there is one we can send you let me check....BS! They are doing what Colt did concentrating on complete guns and contract runs and leaving the average customers to wait and wonder...there are too many people building good stuff to put up with that. I may just start ordering LM&T uppers and assembling lowers in house.

Life is too short to do business with people that don't apreciate their customers.

 

[MassMark]

I have to agree with BigG. I almost chuckle when I read some of these AR-15 posts, but not quite, as I'm a working stiff and know firsthand how crappy it feels to invest untold dough into a weapon - only to have it fall short. I have at least one theory on this, which I'll touch upon in a minute.

Say what you will about Colts, but in my experience - they work. I have told the story often about my National Match and the 10's of thousands of rounds downtown out of that gun. Malfunctions? One - fairly serious actually after firing early lacquered Wolf. Other than that - nothing but round after round reliability. Folks who know me also know that I'm not at all kind to my weapons. I respect them and care for them when they need it, but I'm not a toothbrush toting anal retentive with a bottle of CLP in my pocket. It may be months and many range sessions before I tear down and clean. I read threads about cleaning the gas tube with those fancy-schmancy pipe cleaners and am left scratching my head. I never ever cleaned my gas tube and the guy I sold my Colt to is a worse maintainer than I am. He said: "huh?" when I asked him if he cleaned out the gas tube.... The gun is also tight like prom night - no wiggles, wobbles, gaps. Fit and finish is superb and when you lay this rifle down on the bench next to any other AR, (I won't name names) it's obvious which one is the Colt. The HBAR also shoots better than I can expect to shoot it. No fancy handguards - no free-float this, no drop in trigger that - no fluted stainless bull barrel - it just drives tacks. If shooting inside a 50-cent piece at 100-yards is not accurate, then I don't know what is and for the type of shooting I do, don't really care. My only regret about my Colt HBAR is selling it. Every now and then, I make a play to buy it back - only to be flatly turned down. My buddy knows a good rifle when he sees it....

As for my Rock River Arms Theory, (RRAT) - I liken it to the gradual decline in Vector Arms Uzis. If you read much about Vector, you will understand that at one time, they produced a consistent, high quality Uzi clone. The examples I've seen and fired were stellar - flawless and affordable. This was prior to the sunset of the Assault Weapons Ban. Post ban has been a different story in my opinion. Since then, demand exploded, quality took a hit and reports started popping up about everything from rusted barrels to receivers full of blast media, to canted trunions, cracks and beyond. It wasn't that Vector became a shoddy company, (they are not) - I believe they became too big for their britches, started cranking out Uzi's to meet customer demand, rather than focus on putting out a high quality product - one at a time. They used their stellar customer service and standing behind their product as an excuse to crank out guns that increasingly became - well - crap. Now it seems buying a Vector Uzi has gotten better, but it's still a crapshoot. It seems once every week or two, someone posts about a new Vector that's stovepiping, ammo sensitive, unable to be sighted in or shipped with a .45 extractor in a 9mm bolt. I think RRA may have gone through something not quite parallel, but kind of similar. Early reports about RRA's were surreal - outstanding AR clones at great prices. Selection, variety, reliability, features, innovation - were all words I'd either read about or hear about when it came to Rock River Arms. Demand exploded and now I believe they too are becoming another example of a company who once focused on the individual rifle first and now have focused on customer demand or God forbid - profit before product.....

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Yes they do. I don't play with my AR15 like a Lego set so the standard Colts with either large pin or small have been 100% reliable for me. I'm an enthusiast with a lot of gun experience, not somebody who learned about guns by playing video games. BTW, just try and get your money back out of your Lego AR15. I can get every penny and then some out of my Colts.

You obviously don't have very much experience with AR15's. "Lego" AR15 or not, Colt is not the undisputed best AR15 manufacturer. They are good, I won't argue that. I never said they don't work... But they aren't the best... Many manufacturers can match and even exceed their quality.

I think it's funny when people say that Colt's hold their value as if that is something that is unique to them. The only people who say that are people who drink the kool-aid and have never owned another brand of rifle. The only exception would be older "collectable" Colt AR15's.

If you owned another brand and wanted to sell it, you would see that you can easily get what you paid for it when you sell it. Same thing goes for parts.

I've never sold an AR15 part for less than what I paid for it, regardless of manufacturer. I haven't found Colt parts to bring any more or less in comparison to what was paid for them originally. Anyways, that is not what the issue was. The issue was, "Everybody else is just a hacker with a machine shop trying to follow a drawing." In reality, some of these "hackers" can beat Colt at their own game (LMT and Noveske are a couple that make better AR15's).

Not to mention, even if Colt did hold it's value better than all else (complete and utter BS), I wouldn't buy it strictly based on that. I want my weapons to work... I don't plan on selling good weapons.

 

[MarshallDodge]

You obviously don't have very much experience with AR15's. "Lego" AR15 or not, Colt is not the undisputed best AR15 manufacturer. They are good, I won't argue that. I never said they don't work... But they aren't the best... Many manufacturers can match and even exceed their quality.

The only people who say that are people who drink the kool-aid and have never owned another brand of rifle. The only exception would be older "collectable" Colt AR15's.

Thank you for saying it.

 

[aloharover]

You obviously don't have very much experience with AR15's. "Lego" AR15 or not, Colt is not the undisputed best AR15 manufacturer. They are good, I won't argue that. I never said they don't work... But they aren't the best... Many manufacturers can match and even exceed their quality.

I won't argue better-v-worse but I would put a LMT, Noveske, or CMMG in a head to head with a Colt without fear of them letting me down.

 

[Outlaws]

I like how people think they use their guns harder than everyone else. I take it I am the only one who knows any new shooters that haven't heard of cleaning.

But still, I hate reading posts about how some people use their guns for their careers and somehow that means they know more about guns because of it. Thats a joke.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

I won't argue better-v-worse but I would put a LMT, Noveske, or CMMG in a head to head with a Colt without fear of them letting me down.

That is my point exactly. For people to refer to all other manufacturers other than Colt as "hackers with machine shops" is just plain silly. Yes, there are some hackers, there are quite a few that simply do not measure up to Colt... but Colt is not the end all be all, holy grail of AR15's...

 

[Walkalong]

Who makes the absolute best, regardless of price, AR-15? Why?

Is it one maker alone, two alone, maybe three top dogs?

Which maker(s) come in second place. Why?

Might as well tell who's third while your at it, and why.

As long as we are debating it, lets list them. I guess RRA won't be at the top, huh.

I know I don't know, but am very interested to hear from those who do.

 

[asknight]

Depends on the model, caliber, and configuration, Walkalong!

 

[aloharover]

but Colt is not the end all be all, holy grail of AR15's

You're going to H E L L now

 

[aloharover]

Depends on the model, caliber, and configuration

And intended use