Zaydok Allen
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LOL!!!!! I'd probably pee my pants if that happened in a firearm class!
I know, it's wrong...... but come on!
I'm not a brand basher, BUT.......
- Thread starter Arkansas Paul
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LOL!!!!! I'd probably pee my pants if that happened in a firearm class!
I know, it's wrong...... but come on!
My wife and I went to the same CCP class. KT P11 is my pistol and my wife had a Intratec Protec .25. It's a CZ-45 clone. We had purchased them the week before. We'd shot 40 rounds through each w/o any problems. However, the temperature was about 20 degrees lower when we went out to the range and my wife's pistol kept hanging up. Her trigger would stick upon return and finally the instuctor allowed her to shoot one of his .45s. She said it has less recoil than her .25.
Mine shot fine. She ended up out shooting me. She scored a 92 and I scored an 82 out of 100. 70 or below was a fail. The woman next to me had a Springfield .40 and was 'lights out'. Everything she shot was within an 8" pattern.
When we got home I broke down both pistols and soaked them both in solvent for 24 hrs. Dried, lubed them both and her's has been great since. It's a nice little piece.
We'll be sure to stay away from Lorcin.
Mine shot fine. She ended up out shooting me. She scored a 92 and I scored an 82 out of 100. 70 or below was a fail. The woman next to me had a Springfield .40 and was 'lights out'. Everything she shot was within an 8" pattern.
When we got home I broke down both pistols and soaked them both in solvent for 24 hrs. Dried, lubed them both and her's has been great since. It's a nice little piece.
We'll be sure to stay away from Lorcin.
OrangePwrx9
Member
Not a CHL class; just a couple of range sessions with a supposed Front Sight graduate.
First session we shot a Glock 19 and a 9mm XD. Both worked fine for me. For her, a jam on every shot. Told her she was limp wristing and to stiffen her grip, but she was unable or unwilling to correct the problem. Funny thing was she was lightning fast in identifying and clearing the jam and fairly accurate as well. Just couldn't get either gun to run.
Next session we shot a Taurus .38 Spcl. revolver and a Mini 14. Again, the accuracy was there with both guns and the Taurus behaved itself. Afterward she looked at me wide-eyed and said, "I really like these revolvers. They don't jam."
First session we shot a Glock 19 and a 9mm XD. Both worked fine for me. For her, a jam on every shot. Told her she was limp wristing and to stiffen her grip, but she was unable or unwilling to correct the problem. Funny thing was she was lightning fast in identifying and clearing the jam and fairly accurate as well. Just couldn't get either gun to run.
Next session we shot a Taurus .38 Spcl. revolver and a Mini 14. Again, the accuracy was there with both guns and the Taurus behaved itself. Afterward she looked at me wide-eyed and said, "I really like these revolvers. They don't jam."
JVaughn
Member
I wonder if the shooter was limp-writing the pistol. The lorcin is recoil operated, got to hold on to it when it cycles.
jad0110
Member
Fortunately I had taken care of that 30 minutes earlier
.Her right foot (the one she shot) was about 16" from my left foot at that moment (she was standing to my left). Just prior, I saw out of my peripheral vision the gun slip a little from her hand. When she grabbed at it, her finger was already inside the trigger guard and POP!
The first thing I did was check my own feet and lower extremities. As I was doing this, I heard her grumble "Ugh, I shot myself in the foot!"
I looked over and saw a tiny, .22 sized hole in her sneaker at a point right just behind the big toe and the one next do it.It happened towards the end of a string of fire, so it wasn't immediately noticed by the safety officer and instructor. I turned my head back and made eye contact with the safety officer. I didn't have to say a word or make any gestures, the funny thing being his eyes went straight from mine to the hole in her shoe. With his saucer-sized eyes locked on that little hole, he grabbed the instructor from behind him and point out the "problem", and a cease fire was called.
Anyway, she was taken to the hospital where she was patched up. We didn't see her after that again, apparently the instructor's wife learned from her at the hospital that the embarrassment was far worse than the pain she felt (which took about 20 minutes to really become noticeable).
The irony was they had just 10 minutes earlier explained why they had banned shoulder holsters, based on a near miss a few years earlier. Apparently, the genius in question tried to fast draw his Sig. He succeeded in firing a shot under his arm. The instructor, who was standing 10 feet behind him, felt the round whiz a by his right ear
. He figured it probably missed him by an inch or two.
Zaydok Allen
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Yeah, I hate to say it, but some people are just not meant to carry a gun, nor own them. Still their right though.
Hopefully both individuals learned from their mistakes and will not repeat them.
Hopefully both individuals learned from their mistakes and will not repeat them.
savage116
Member
My uncle had bought a Lorcin 380 for $50,realized it was straight garbage. Then sold it to his friend for $50. His friend just wanted something and knew it was a piece of junk. Then his friend traded it in at a LGS on a ruger LCP and they gave him $60 for it. He was surprised to have gotten that much out of it. It would shoot a round then jam, if you got lucky it'd shoot 2 rounds before jamming.
I know that $$ are tight for many or most, but for something like a PD/HD device, I fail to understand why people purchase firearms with questionable quality and a checkered past.
I've heard the statement that something is better than nothing, but it may not be the case with something like a Lorcin. That is, if you are unarmed, your defensive moves are obvious. But when armed, some may choose to take a more aggressive posture (though that's almost uniformly unwise). But when you 'think' you are armed but in fact are not (i.e. when you are holding a Lorcin) you may be in the worst possible position.
B
I've heard the statement that something is better than nothing, but it may not be the case with something like a Lorcin. That is, if you are unarmed, your defensive moves are obvious. But when armed, some may choose to take a more aggressive posture (though that's almost uniformly unwise). But when you 'think' you are armed but in fact are not (i.e. when you are holding a Lorcin) you may be in the worst possible position.
B
Zaydok Allen
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Good words B!ngo. I agree 100%. $$ is very tight for many many people. Given the choice between a totally unreliable gun, and a stun gun or pepper spray, I'll take the stun gun or pepper spray.
Investing in a gun for home and self defense is an important investment. It is worth saving for longer to get a decent product and considering your options carefully.
Heck, I'd rather have a sharp stick than a gun that doesn't work.
Investing in a gun for home and self defense is an important investment. It is worth saving for longer to get a decent product and considering your options carefully.
Heck, I'd rather have a sharp stick than a gun that doesn't work.
I am normally against the people who say to save up and buy something better but in this case I agree. People who say to save up for a $800 pistol instead of buying a $300 gun are out of touch with reality because most would buy a better gun if they could afford one. I have some cheap-o ring of fire guns but sure don't want to NEED them in an emergency. I personally am very comfortable with a Hi Point for HD so buying a $100 crap gun makes no sense when you can buy a $200 (in today's stupid world) Hi Point and have a serviceable, though ugly, weapon for HD. Lorcin and all those other very cheap guns have too sketchy a record to depend on. Much better off with a shotgun at home or a Taurus/Kel Tec for personal carry.
OP
OP
Arkansas Paul
Member
I agree.
Zaydok Allen
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I agree as well. There are plenty of perfectly good, accurate, reliable, and servicable guns in the $300 to $400 range.
Sigmas, P95, Stoegar Cogars, Ruger SR guns, others that I'm missing.
AJMBLAZER
Member
Regarding weapons brought to CCW class-
I took mine back in December. Was an interesting cross section of gun owners.
-One guy had a "straight-out-of-the-80's-action-movies-bad-guy-gun" M1911 with a muzzle brake, flared mag well, square trigger guard, black grips, stainless or nickel finish, etc. He shot well though. Was a retired Air Force B-1 pilot.
-Lots of fancy and plain guns. Mostly guns people would actually carry. Very few showed up with revolvers.
-Couple people had no idea how to handle their guns or work them. In KY there's a requirement that during the class they teach the students how to clean guns. Kind of silly to require that but in our class they wanted you to just lock the slide back on an auto, show them it was unloaded, and then let them inspect the gun so that they could make sure it wasn't ridiculously dirty or broken.
Several people had very dirty guns. Some didn't know how to lock the slide back.
One lady who had been rather aloof the whole time had some kind of revolver that was broken. They wouldn't let her shoot it. She got quite bent about it. Ended up storming off when they tried to rent her a .22LR revolver instead of her unsafe-to-fire gun.
-While doing the fire part the couple next to me had trouble. The woman was shooting their newer Ruger 9mm and she kept having misfeeds. The instructors went over and talked to them and quizzed them with all the usual questions. They really didn't seem to have any good answers. The instructors were finally recommending the couple bring the gun in so their smith could look it over the following week when the husband mentioned they had only ever fired the gun before once. The thing had less than a box of ammo through it when they took the class. Instructors just told them to take it out and shoot several hundred rounds through it before they worried if it was reliable or not.
-This guy didn't do anything wrong but there was a very polite little Asian man who showed up with a really nice Sig compact, blasted a fist sized hole through the dead center of his target, hopped in his new Porsche and drove away.
I took mine back in December. Was an interesting cross section of gun owners.
-One guy had a "straight-out-of-the-80's-action-movies-bad-guy-gun" M1911 with a muzzle brake, flared mag well, square trigger guard, black grips, stainless or nickel finish, etc. He shot well though. Was a retired Air Force B-1 pilot.
-Lots of fancy and plain guns. Mostly guns people would actually carry. Very few showed up with revolvers.
-Couple people had no idea how to handle their guns or work them. In KY there's a requirement that during the class they teach the students how to clean guns. Kind of silly to require that but in our class they wanted you to just lock the slide back on an auto, show them it was unloaded, and then let them inspect the gun so that they could make sure it wasn't ridiculously dirty or broken.
Several people had very dirty guns. Some didn't know how to lock the slide back.
One lady who had been rather aloof the whole time had some kind of revolver that was broken. They wouldn't let her shoot it. She got quite bent about it. Ended up storming off when they tried to rent her a .22LR revolver instead of her unsafe-to-fire gun.
-While doing the fire part the couple next to me had trouble. The woman was shooting their newer Ruger 9mm and she kept having misfeeds. The instructors went over and talked to them and quizzed them with all the usual questions. They really didn't seem to have any good answers. The instructors were finally recommending the couple bring the gun in so their smith could look it over the following week when the husband mentioned they had only ever fired the gun before once. The thing had less than a box of ammo through it when they took the class. Instructors just told them to take it out and shoot several hundred rounds through it before they worried if it was reliable or not.
-This guy didn't do anything wrong but there was a very polite little Asian man who showed up with a really nice Sig compact, blasted a fist sized hole through the dead center of his target, hopped in his new Porsche and drove away.
MTMilitiaman
Member
Yeah. I had an aunt that lived for a while in one of the rougher areas of Minneapolis. One time when we were visiting, she showed my brother and I this tiny nickel plated Lorcin .25 ACP. I don't know how often or if she practiced with it, just that my brother and I always liked being shown a new gun, and this particular one came from somewhere we didn't expect it to. If someone on my dad's side of the family pulls out a new piece, that's not a huge deal cause it happens on a fairly regular basis. But this was the only time someone one my mom's side of the family has ever armed themselves, as far as I am aware. So anyways, years go by before we are able to visit this aunt again. But finally we do and inevitably, my brother gets around to asking if he can see the little shiny pistol again. She says, "No, I got rid of it." We of course wanted to know why she would do such a thing. "Simple," she shrugged, "I was getting too old to throw it accurately."
You could just throw cliches like this at them and it'd be even better.
I am in Central Arkansas as well. My mother is in NE AR. She has arthritis so bad she cannot pull a Smith J frame either, but she can pull back the Rossi M720 .44 SPC, so that is what I have loaned her for protection. I just loaded up some 246 grain Remington lead for her with two speed loaders. I figure if a super soft .429 246 grain lead bullet @ 700 fps from 7 yards away doesn't get someones attention then most nothing will.
Back to CCW Classes and renewals. Due to some circumstances my 9mm Auto was tied up during time for renewal. The officer saw I had a licence to carry an auto, and wanted to know why I brought a revolver.
I told him the story, and he reached in his bag, and brought out a Ruger 22/45 for me to shoot. Just so happened I had a box of .22 LR in my range bag. Nice of him to do that.
Back to CCW Classes and renewals. Due to some circumstances my 9mm Auto was tied up during time for renewal. The officer saw I had a licence to carry an auto, and wanted to know why I brought a revolver.
I told him the story, and he reached in his bag, and brought out a Ruger 22/45 for me to shoot. Just so happened I had a box of .22 LR in my range bag. Nice of him to do that.
Zaydok Allen
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Edited my original remark. I'm not going to play this game.
Kiln, snide comments serve no purpose.
If you dissagree with something I've said, then say so. Don't be passive aggressive.
If you don't like that most people would agree that ROF guns are considered poor choices for a SD gun, that is your right. So start a thread supporting this idea and talk about it. I'm sure some people will agree with you, and you can have a nice conversation. Just coming in here and saying "It's the magazines" doesn't make ROF guns better though.
By the way:
(Continuing the conversation now)
I agree, you can make any gun, or any machine for that matter, run reliably with enough time, effort, work, and money. But, what's your point? How does that make a poorly made gun that is unreliable from the factory, and may have questionable durability, anything other than what it is? Now it is a reliable poorly made gun that may have questionable durability. If you enjoy fixing up beaters, then enjoy. The bottom line is that it is still a questionable choice, and if you walk into a LGS or chain, trying to sell a Jenning's, and say "Yeah it's a Jenning's, but I did a bunch of work on it and it is reliable as all get out." The person behind the counter is still going to think "It's still a Jenning's"
There is a reason they aren't still in business.
Kiln, snide comments serve no purpose.
If you dissagree with something I've said, then say so. Don't be passive aggressive.
If you don't like that most people would agree that ROF guns are considered poor choices for a SD gun, that is your right. So start a thread supporting this idea and talk about it. I'm sure some people will agree with you, and you can have a nice conversation. Just coming in here and saying "It's the magazines" doesn't make ROF guns better though.
By the way:
(Continuing the conversation now)
I agree, you can make any gun, or any machine for that matter, run reliably with enough time, effort, work, and money. But, what's your point? How does that make a poorly made gun that is unreliable from the factory, and may have questionable durability, anything other than what it is? Now it is a reliable poorly made gun that may have questionable durability. If you enjoy fixing up beaters, then enjoy. The bottom line is that it is still a questionable choice, and if you walk into a LGS or chain, trying to sell a Jenning's, and say "Yeah it's a Jenning's, but I did a bunch of work on it and it is reliable as all get out." The person behind the counter is still going to think "It's still a Jenning's"
There is a reason they aren't still in business.
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