McCain, Kennedy propose amnesty plan for illegals

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

Ths will undoubtedly get immediate support from Mexico's favorite President *BLL Bush

McCain, Kennedy team on immigration plan
Mike Sunnucks
The Business Journal

Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain is working with Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., on a wide-ranging immigration reform package that could include a guest worker program, expedited processing of backlogged visa and green card applications and a pathway to legal status for undocumented workers already in the U.S.

McCain and Kennedy's offices say the effort is still being finalized.

But Roll Call editor Morton Kondracke writes that the McCain-Kennedy plan will have a way for illegal immigrants already in the U.S. to obtain legal employment status and citizenship.

Kondracke said in a recent column that the proposal allows law-abiding, working undocumented immigrants who pay a fine and go through a background check to apply for green cards and perhaps citizenship.

That proposal will run into opposition from conservatives in Arizona and nationally who vehemently oppose any immigration measures that smack of amnesty for illegals already in the U.S.

Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl and Texas Sen. John Cornyn are also working on their own set of changes that will include tougher border security and immigration law enforcement including against employers who illegally hire undocumented migrants.

Valley Congressmen J.D. Hayworth and Trent Franks joined other conservative Republicans in a Thursday letter to congressional leaders opposing any "amnesty" and immigration amendments to an $81 billion supplemental spending package for Iraq and Afghanistan.

McCain's work with Kennedy on the immigration front comes on the heels of the senior Arizona senator formulating guest worker plans with Arizona U.S. Reps. Jim Kolbe and Jeff Flake (both Republicans).

McCain is also considering a run for president in 2008.

McCain's immigration effort could gain backing from Hispanics as well as business interests in Arizona and nationally who favor guest or temporary worker programs. The move could hurt McCain with conservatives who already differ with the maverick senator on other issues, including campaign finance reforms, oil drilling in an Alaskan wildlife refuge and repeal of estate taxes.

The Arizona Republican was approached last year by Democrats, including presidential nominee John Kerry, and asked switch parties and join their presidential ticket. McCain declined and was a top supporter of President Bush's re-election bid. Bush favors a temporary worker program for immigrants.

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2005/04/11/daily59.html


*Boot Licking Lackey

 

[dloken]

I don't see a problem. Most Mexicans (Actually from Mexico) are very nice and hard working legal or illegal. They take jobs that most of us won't take. I think all of the hatred towards illegals boils down to xenophobia. I do agree that our border needs more security to stop real threats from coming in.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Hatred of illegals is not xenophobia--it is criminalophobia. Laws are laws and should either be enforced or deleted. As one of many immigrants that went through hoops to take their turn getting here, my wife is rightfully disdainful of illegals.

 

[Fletchette]

I don't see a problem. Most Mexicans (Actually from Mexico) are very nice and hard working legal or illegal. They take jobs that most of us won't take. I think all of the hatred towards illegals boils down to xenophobia. I do agree that our border needs more security to stop real threats from coming in.

Think about some more.

I do not have any racist feelings towards immigrants. In fact, I completely sympathize with them. I'd try to get to the U.S. any way I could.

BUT, the current system of "outlawing" immigration, and then looking the other way and allowing illegal immigration, has a number of serious side effects.

1) Potential for terrorists
2) Massive smuggling and organized crime
3) Creation of a "slave class" who do not get minimum wages, health care etc.
4) Massive amounts of capital flowing out of the country
5) These immigrants have no loyalty to this country, as they know that they could be deported at anytime. Therefore they do not care to assimilate.
6) An incentive not to obey the law. It is much easier to break the law after you have knowingly done it before (illegally immigrating). Thus, no respect for the law.
7) Without trying to assimilate, and with no respect for the law, they bring their system of government here (corrupt police, bribery is common, etc.)

Notice that none of these reasons has anything to do with "race".


The solution is to legalize immigration, create a legal path for these immigrants to get citizenship, and deny immigration to criminals and terrorists. This way the immigrants are incentivized to follow the law, work hard, get paid fairly, pay taxes and otherwise assimilate, so that they receive full citizenship. This would give them a reason to want to stay, stop sending money "back home" because home is now here. Their productive talents are now benefiting, not hurting the United States.

Unfortunately, when anyone complains about the current system, they are immdiately labled as "racist".

 

[beerslurpy]

There are hundreds of thousands of highly skilled technical workers and scientists that are waiting for sponsorship in this country. They would make high salaries and contribute enormously to America's economy. Even if they are lucky enough to get over here, they wait about 6-7 years working as lowly paid visas before they even get a green card.

Someone please tell me why desireable workers are kept out of the country while the poor/criminal underclass of mexico gets a free pass. We dont want millions of dirt poor mexicans to be made into citizens. The second they have to pay american prices for food and housing and receive American benefits/wages for their labor they will no longer be affordable labor- they will instead become an official drain upon our government social systems.

We have enough poor people in this country already, we dont need more.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I think all of the hatred towards illegals boils down to xenophobia.

Baloney! Illegal aliens are a cancer in our nation—unless, of course, you think we're somehow morally obliged to squander billions of dollars handing them free education, free food stamps, free housing support, free welfare checks, free medical care, free trips to jail and prison, free social workers, and free everything else.

One of America's greatest strengths has always been the way we welcome immigrants. One of our greatest weaknesses is the way we ignore the cancer of illegal aliens.

 

[Bear Gulch]

I don't hate them, I just don't want them here.


Uncle Ted and Johnboy need serious targeting in the next election cycle!

 

[RealGun]

If they are here intending to stay, I want them serious about obtaining citizenship and speaking English. Once they are here, all the for-the-children arguments kick in, and we have a greater tax burden.

Also note that 100 years from now, the US will be predominantly Catholic, barring any birth control and enforcement of immigration laws. Everyone will have to speak at least two languages.

Instead of $13 billion per year being sent back to Mexico, imagine the number. Illegally working in the US is part of the Mexican economy, formally supported by their government.

I really think some social engineering is called for here. I would also like to know that it is not easy for terrorists to come in through Mexico.

 

[horge]

Filipinos constitute the second largest legal immigrant group in the United States. Those that went in legally, who waited in line for the opportunity to work and live in the U.S. view illegal immigrant Filipinos with scant favor.

Are those brown-skinned, law-abiding, LEGAL immigrants racist?
Give me a break.

Bottom line is, if some people can cite poverty as an excuse to break the law,
those people will possibly continue to use the excuse... whatever status you grant them.



JM2P

brown-skinned horge

 

[shermacman]

I don't see a problem. Most Mexicans are very nice and hard working legal or illegal. They take jobs that most of us won't take. I think all of the hatred towards illegals boils down to xenophobia. I do agree that our border needs more security to stop real threats from coming in.

Rarely am I speechless. You are so wrong on so many points. As "brown- skinned horge" suggests, the immigrants who go through the legal road are loosing out. The illegals are illegal the instant they break in.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Filipinos constitute the second largest legal immigrant group in the United States. Those that went in legally, who waited in line for the opportunity to work and live in the U.S. view illegal immigrant Filipinos with scant favor.

Yep. I used to live in Daly City, California, which has a large population of people from the Philipines. They work hard, send their kids to school and keep a close eye on them, and believe in America the old-fashioned way. Legal immigrants—I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it—have always been one of this nation's greatest strengths.

I've also lived in parts of California that were heavily infested with illegal aliens. They're one of the main reasons I left. I've never seen so much squalor, depravity, criminality, noise, and dirt in my life.

 

[lostone1413]

Someone please tell me why desireable workers are kept out of the country while the poor/criminal underclass of mexico gets a free pass.



Easy to tell you why the desireable workers are kept out of the country. THEY OUR WHITE! If we keep letting all the third world people in this country how long before we are a third world nation? I for one say it is time to stop almost all immigration into this country. With the borders wide open anyone really dumb enough to think homeland security has anything to do with our safety? Anyone really believe the war in Iraq is over terrorism and not control of the oil?

 

[rick_reno]

Democrats and Republicans (?) working together for a better America. What could be better?

 

[DelayedReaction]

I really can't understand why this is so hard to fix. As far as I'm concerned, the solution is threefold:

1) Increase the speed, ease, and efficiency of legal immigration. Make it easier to legally immigrate into this country than it is to illegally immigrate.

2) Drastically improve the protection of our borders, with both physical security and manpower. Utilize the national guard to assist with this.

3) Rapidly deport illegal immigrants. Have the federal government reimburse expenses accrued by local governments in the course of capturing illegal aliens. Before they are deported, give them the option to become legal immigrants (assuming they are eligible and haven't committed any crimes beyond illegal immigration).

I'm not sure about whether or not I would establish that being deported for illegal immigration would be justification for denying citizenship for legal immigration. On one hand it would deter people from entering illegally, on the other hand those who were deported would no longer have a reason to enter legally. Hard decision, but I'm inclined to allow illegal immigrants to legally become citizens.

In short, people want to come to this country. They should be allowed to do so, and allowed to do so freely. But if they want to work here, then they need to play by our rules. Increasing the ease by which legal immigrants can enter, supplemented by improved enforcement and enhanced physical security, would make it more desirable to legally immigrate than to illegally invade.

 

[Nehemiah Scudder]

What percentage of the GNP should we devote to this?

Really and truly securing the borders and ports is going to be damn expensive.

 

[twency]

Hmm, if we're going to have an amnesty for illegal aliens, how 'bout an amnesty for illegal weapons, such as untaxed full-auto guns. There's much more constitutional and practical basis for doing that than for declaring amnesty for people who (no matter how nice and good they are in every other way) entered the U.S. illegally.


twency
______
Close relative of someone who provides social services for people who are sometimes (ahem) undocumented.

 

[wingman]

We no longer live in the 1800's, can we afford to continue to open our door
to more and more people, everything has limits, should we.?
How can a person with less then an 8th education come here with a family
of 5 and not be a burden on society, he or she may make 22k however in
school cost alone will cost taxpayer 18-21k if they have 3 children.

We cannot continue to export jobs to third world countries and open our
door to more people from the same area so the remaining jobs can be filled
with slave labor.

Illegals are a subsidized work force that Joe average in America pays for to
help the wealthy here and in Mexico, thats all we "do not" benefit in prices
or otherwise.

Having lived on and near our southern border 30 years I have seen major
changes in the past 8, the illegal of today is much different then 30 years
past, in my opinion there is a much more anti-American feeling along the border. I am only telling you what I see in this area.

Even if an amnesty bill does pass illegals will still come many dont want in
the system, I dont believe most employers want them in system. Either
was they will continue unless we shut the border down, can afford too,
my feeling is we must.

I have voted conservative 20+ years but will switch my vote in 2008 over
this issue.

 

[DRZinn]

What percentage of the GNP should we devote to this?

Really and truly securing the borders and ports is going to be damn expensive.

As one of the legitimate functions of government, it wouldn't even be a problem if we didn't waste so many billions on things that aren't legitimate functions of government.

Besides, if we make the importer pay the cost to inspect his shipment, and the tourist pay the cost to inspect him and his luggage, our outlay would be even less. It's not trade restriction, just "user pays."

 

[shermacman]

twency nails a great point. If a country is established on the rule of law but then selectively ignores some of those laws, the entire structure starts to tilt. Illegals come in, not to clean toilets, but to deal drugs; when they are caught, they are simply released on their own recognizance, never to be seen again until their next arrest. Soon we have resolute and angry US citizens doing the border patrols that our own government won't do. Those Minutemen get condemned by our own President.

Ugliness follows.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

It's not racist to object to the problems associated with illegal immigration, it's common sense.


INVASION USA
Illegal alien held
in toddler's death
MS-13 gang member allegedly fired 5 shots into windshield of family out for snow cones
Posted: April 17, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Miguel Castro

Capital murder charges have been filed against a 19-year-old illegal alien believed to be a member of MS-13, a violent El Salvadoran gang, for the shooting death of a 19-month-old Houston toddler.

Miguel Angel Castro and three other men allegedly followed the family of Aiden Naquin as they returned home from a snow cone stand last Tuesday night. According to Ernest Naquin, the child's 27-year-old father, he pulled over to let a tailgating silver Nissan Altima containing four men pass. Instead of passing, however, the car blocked the Naquin family's vehicle and a gunman and two others exited the Nissan, came toward the front of the car and began firing.

"I said, 'Please don't kill me.' Then I saw that look in his eyes," Naquin says as he describes how he told his children to duck.

Miraculously, neither Naquin nor his two daughters, ages 10 and 4, were hit, but Aiden, strapped in an infant car seat, was not so lucky. Not until Naquin arrived at his home did he know that the toddler had been hit twice in the head.

The massive manhunt was helped by a cell phone dropped by the killer at the murder site, reports the Houston Chronicle. Police were led by cell phone records to an apartment building where an earlier standoff had resulted in 10 people taken into custody for questioning. When the authorities recognized the connection between the cell phone and the outstanding warrants for the apartment's occupants, a stake out was conducted.

Castro arrived after 1:00 a.m. and was arrested after police fired stun grenades into the apartment.

As WorldNetDaily has reported, the Mara Salvatruchas gang – also known as MS-13 – has been linked to al-Qaida and other terrorist groups. In February, one of MS-13's leaders, Ebner Anivel Rivera-Paz, was arrested in Texas and held for the December bus massacre of 28 people, including six children, in San Pedro Sula, Honduras.

Rivera-Paz, WorldNetDaily reported, issued orders from federal prison to MS-13 members to teach the Minuteman volunteers patrolling the Arizona-Mexico border a lesson.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43841

 

[El Tejon]

What? You guys don't like this? I thought this would be greeted by clapping and howls of approval?

You say that you are not against immigrants because of race, but because of their non-compliance with immigration regulations. So, now there is a proposal to get them into compliance and you are upset with it? Why?

"Why is it that every time a white man expresses hate of minorities he is labeled a racist?" Day Without A Mexican (2004) (a mockumentary).

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

You say that you are not against immigrants because of race, but because of their non-compliance with immigration regulations. So, now there is a proposal to get them into compliance and you are upset with it? Why?

The proposed plan of McCain and Kennedy is objectionable because it will increase illegal immigration. Bringing into compliance the illegals that already here without a deadly serious effort at sealing the border will only encourage more people to cross into the USA illegally.

Objecting to illegal immigration has nothing to do with racism. The only things I ever see here on THR (and elsewhere) for the most part are objections to the taxpayer costs, depression of wages, and crime associated with the phenonema.

Anyone accusing me of being a racist doesn't know me very well.

 

[El Tejon]

Cool, are you saying the last amnesty (1986) caused the current problem?

Illegal immigration is the result of a history of silly xenophobic quotas, a moronic application process and ALJs with a backlog that staggers the imagination.

We need the immigrants to do the work that the native-born refuse to do. Markets decide wages and those markets should be open; if people commit crimes, we should prosecute the criminals not the class (gee, this sounds familiar); illegal immigrants contribue far more than they take.

There is no objection to the illegal immigration of Russians, Poles or Irish (Irish were main beneficiaries of the '86 reform). The objection is contained to those of Latino ancestry. Why is that?

 

[wingman]

We need the immigrants to do the work that the native-born refuse to do.

Simply false this idea put out by groups promoting illegal immigration mainly
those who hire them. If we will not do this work as a nation in time we
will fail. :banghead:


I object too all illegal immigration........Most I see and deal with has been
Mexican.

 

[RealGun]

In short, people want to come to this country. They should be allowed to do so, and allowed to do so freely.

That sounds nice but it abdicates control of what this country is and will remain. A wave of immigrants in uncontrolled numbers can bring foreign political philsosophies and cultural issues with them. They need to assimilate, not take over. I see no better alternatives than quotas that have oversight of regulatory discretion.