Impossible to carry Browning HP in condition 2...?

[Retro]

The reason that I ask this question is because I noticed that it is extremely hard to cock back the hammer of a BHP with one hand. Therefore, it is impossible to carry the pistol in condition 2 with a round chamber and hammer down (as recommended by the instuction manual) because during stress, one cannot possibly cock this pistol with one hand. Just impossible.

Of the 20 pistols that I have owned, BHP by far has the tightest hammer.

Does anyone else notice the same thing? Or should I just go to gym and lift more weights?

 

[DogBonz]

Actually, yes I have

I thought it was because it was new, although I would never attempt to lower the hammer on a live round by pulling the trigger. I saw someone once "declaw" themselves at the range trying to "decock" a 1911.

 

[Marshall]

Yea, it's somewhat tight but not undoable, if that's a word?

I carry mine that way sometimes but I can cock it. Some of it may have to do with the length of your thumb.

 

[10-Ring]

With the right training & commitment to train and with right holster, carrying cocked & locked is more than suitable for the BHP

 

[marty1]

I always carried mine cocked and locked; never had a problem

 

[Texas Colt]

+1 for cocked and locked carry. When I had a BHP that is always how I carried it.

FWIW, of all the guns I've ever traded off or sold, the BHP is the only one I regret selling.

 

[Car Knocker]

Had to go check and refresh my memory. My Mk. III with a spur hammer thumb-cocks easily with one hand - my grip has to shift slightly but that doesn't seem to be a problem. But I do carry it C&L.

 

[GRIZ22]

Impossible to carry Browning HP in condition 2...?

Why would you want to? Condition One is not just the preference of the resident pistoleros here, it is the way Browning designed the gun to be carried.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Why would you want to? Condition One is not just the preference of the resident pistoleros here, it is the way Browning designed the gun to be carried.

John Moses Browning was dead for some years before the safety on the BHP was ever finalized. The pistol at the time of his death was a striker fired model with completely different control layout than the P-35 has. Dieudionne Saive put the safety where it was.

 

[Car Knocker]

To expand on what HorseSoldier wrote, the High Power is based on an 1922 design of Browning's that went through 2 formal redesigns by Dieudonne Saive of FN before its release as the P-35 in 1935. Saive incorporated many of Browning's Colt 1911 design elements when the Colt patents expired in 1928. In my opinion, Saive had much more influence on design of the P-35 than Browning did. By the way, JMB died in 1926.

 

[RNB65]

The pistol at the time of his death was a striker fired model with completely different control layout than the P-35 has.

Absolutely. The pistol that we know as the Browning High Power is a far cry from what John Browning designed -- a hammerless, striker fired pistol with a 16rd magazine. It was only after Browning's death that Saive modified it into the pistol we know today.

Has anyone ever seen or fired one of the original Browning striker fired pistols? I wonder how it compares to the final version.

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

Since I first shot a HP in 1978, the memory that lasted longest (beside the sheer joy of the whole package) was the stiff hammer and slide.

Today, as 40 year old man, I prefer the stiff, solid action. And the P35 safety is the most natural switch I've found on any firearm. FWIW, I have long, tapered fingers, and a rather strong grip.

Yes, the hammer is "heavy", but I like it that way.

Soakers

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Why would you want to? Condition One is not just the preference of the resident pistoleros here, it is the way Browning designed the gun to be carried.
Today 06:48 PM

I agree. Unless it's double action I wouldn't carry a pistol that way. Might not have the dexterity or where-withall to pull gun, cock hammer, put thumb back around grip, place finger on trigger and pull, exactly in that order, while under attack.

 

[Trebor]

Ignore the manual in this instance. The reccomendation to carry with the hammer down is just "lawyer wording."

The HP is designed to be carried loaded, with the hammer back and safety engagred.

The "traditional" alternative was to carry with an empty chamber and the hammer down. There is no need to do that either now that the original small safety has been replaced with a larger safety that is easier to operate.

Btw, the standard hammer spring is 32#. That is pretty stiff. I replaced mine with a 26# Wolff spring. The original spec called for a 26# spring, so I figured that was a safe change to make. I've had no problems and the hammer is *slightly* easier to cock. (Although it didn't make as much of a difference as I'd hoped it would).

 

[UnforgivingMin]

Btw, the standard hammer spring is 32#. That is pretty stiff. I replaced mine with a 26# Wolff spring. The original spec called for a 26# spring, so I figured that was a safe change to make. I've had no problems and the hammer is *slightly* easier to cock. (Although it didn't make as much of a difference as I'd hoped it would).

Also bear in mind that you might not want to go with a 26# mainspring if you plan on using +P ammo in the HP. The mainspring absorbs a lot of the energy of the recoiling slide, and going to a weaker spring means that the slide and frame take more of a beating.

 

[10X]

I found a Wolff 26 pound spring to make a night and day difference. The trigger is tremendously improved and one handed cocking is much much better.

I would agree more than disagree that with a 32 pound spring it is very difficult to cock single handed.

 

[dao]

The SFS kit ( sell in America by Cylinder and Slide, I think ) is a good option, too, for the HP.

 

[briang2ad]

Not impossible.

I had a physics professor decades ago, and he carried in cond 2. He did defend his life with it one night in Cambridge, MA - drew it, cocked it, and pointed it at one of the BGs, etc. - there were three of them. He did not have to shoot though.

 

[Retro]

I didn't know a professor can carry a pistol on campus.

 

[Car Knocker]

I didn't know a professor can carry a pistol on campus.

Perfectly legal, in some states.

 

[Jeff22]

carrying the Browning HP

Terminology: Condition One is cocked and locked; Condition Two is hammer down with a round in the chamber; Condition Three is with a loaded magazine, empty chamber; Condition Zero is with a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, safety disengaged.

The Chief of Police who hired me for my first cop job had previously been an officer in Glendale Heights, Illinois. Around about 1974 or so Glendale Heights PD adoped the Browning HP carried in condition two -- hammer down on a live chamber -- as their duty gun. He carried that way for about 25 years until he replaced the Browning with a Glock 17, shortly before he retired.

He was left handed, and his procedure was to draw and thumb-cock with his right hand and then engage the target. He was very fast, reasonably accurate, and never had an AD in the 25 years I knew him.

Still, I wouldn't recommend that procedure. Get a speed safety, maybe bob the hammer or get a Commander-style hammer if "hammer bite" on the web of your hand is a problem, carry the gun in condition one and be happy.

 

[BHPshooter]

I don't see the main disadvantage to Condition 2 being cocking the hammer (which I don't seem to have a problem with, on any of my Hi Powers ), I see the problem as lowering the hammer in the first place.

To me, the stiff hammer makes that much more of an issue than cocking.

FWIW, lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber [in a semi-automatic] is about the most dangerous thing you can do... IMO.

The Chief of Police who hired me for my first cop job had previously been an officer in Glendale Heights, Illinois. Around about 1974 or so Glendale Heights PD adoped the Browning HP carried in condition two -- hammer down on a live chamber -- as their duty gun. He carried that way for about 25 years until he replaced the Browning with a Glock 17, shortly before he retired.

He was left handed, and his procedure was to draw and thumb-cock with his right hand and then engage the target. He was very fast, reasonably accurate, and never had an AD in the 25 years I knew him.

Being left handed, and before the MkII and MkIII models came out (with their ambidextrous safeties), I would say that in that circumstance the benefits of Cond. 2 carry would outweigh the liabilities.

However, Condition 1 carry is safer, faster, and only requires one hand -- regardless of whether or not you can cock the hammer one-handed.

Wes