1KPerDay
Member
I just saw the new blue/green/red... but what's the "target" supposed to imitate?
IMR "target"?
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In the never ending saga of Alliant vs Hodgdon copy cats,
Being that Red=Red Dot, Blue=Blue Dot, Green=Green Dot, Unequal=Unique, it looks like Target=Bullseye. Same spot on the burn rate chart too.
https://www.hodgdon.com//wp-content/uploads/2017/01/burnratecolor.pdf
Another tit for tat clone.
Actually, if these new powders can be more economically produced with less harm to the environment, that's great. I'd be happy to switch to Sport Pistol and BE-86 so long as I can also use them in shotgun loads like I do with Red Dot and Unique. Oh, I'm not supposed to do so? Guess I'll stick with the old stuff.
Being that Red=Red Dot, Blue=Blue Dot, Green=Green Dot, Unequal=Unique, it looks like Target=Bullseye. Same spot on the burn rate chart too.
https://www.hodgdon.com//wp-content/uploads/2017/01/burnratecolor.pdf
Another tit for tat clone.
Actually, if these new powders can be more economically produced with less harm to the environment, that's great. I'd be happy to switch to Sport Pistol and BE-86 so long as I can also use them in shotgun loads like I do with Red Dot and Unique. Oh, I'm not supposed to do so? Guess I'll stick with the old stuff.
someguy2800
Member
Its pretty bad when they can't even be bothered to come up with new names for there pointless copycat powders. I'm having a really hard time seeing how the market needed 5 more pistol powders.
Hokie_PhD
Member
Personally I like competition as long as it benefits us.
If names are similar that's also helpful.
I would love to see some standard either in names or a coding as it would be nice to know what powders really are without having to look them up in manuals.
If names are similar that's also helpful.
I would love to see some standard either in names or a coding as it would be nice to know what powders really are without having to look them up in manuals.
I like the fact there are more powders coming to market. I don't like to pay for Hazmat shipping ( don't like buying in bulk either) so I have to depend on my local gun shops to have a powder I need. I haven't forgotten not too long ago when the shelves were empty.
thomas15
Member
In trying to understand the naming of the new IMR powders, I put on my sales/marketing hat to analyze the situation. Based on the (real or perceived) scarcity of many of the traditional long standing "color dot" and associated powders, my gut tells me that Hodgdon smells blood on the water and sees the opportunity to pry a portion of that business away from the competition.
Or call it payback if you will for the introduction of Clay "color dot" powder. Hodgdon's customer base is heavy on the individual handloader, the other supplier(s) is the opposite, heavy on the commercial ammo makers. In the good old days of 2013-2014 powder shortages, the suppliers were successful in blaming the shortage on "hoarders" but that train has long past pulled out of the station leaving some of the suppliers with no viable excuse for the absence of product. The fierce brand loyalty that handloaders and gun owners historically exhibit does have it's limits.
Hodgdon, for all it's warts, understands that most handloaders, when they need powder and cannot find their favorite, will find a close substitute. Once they work up loads with the substitute, they will continue to use the substitute (as long as there is at least a feeling that it will remain available)*. I really don't think its any more complicated than that although I might have a minor detail or consideration wrong.
You will never get away from consulting published sources for load data and you shouldn't even consider doing so. If, 10 years from now find yourself still knee deep into handloading the bookshelf closest to your reloading bench will be bursting with manuals and data books with copyrights spanning 50+ years.
* ON EDIT: In my situation I have spent a lot of time working up loads in 9mm using American Select. At one point in 2014 there was 8+ pounds of it in my bunker. Down to about 1 pound now.
In the last year or so I have seen this powder in the stores, at gun shows and on-line very few times. I'm having a difficult time convincing myself that I should continue to search for a product that is difficult to locate and has numerous viable substitutes.
American Select was a budget powder but in the overall scheme of things, handgun loads use such a small amount of powder that the cost per round between the least expensive and most expensive powders amounts to about 1 cent.
Or call it payback if you will for the introduction of Clay "color dot" powder. Hodgdon's customer base is heavy on the individual handloader, the other supplier(s) is the opposite, heavy on the commercial ammo makers. In the good old days of 2013-2014 powder shortages, the suppliers were successful in blaming the shortage on "hoarders" but that train has long past pulled out of the station leaving some of the suppliers with no viable excuse for the absence of product. The fierce brand loyalty that handloaders and gun owners historically exhibit does have it's limits.
Hodgdon, for all it's warts, understands that most handloaders, when they need powder and cannot find their favorite, will find a close substitute. Once they work up loads with the substitute, they will continue to use the substitute (as long as there is at least a feeling that it will remain available)*. I really don't think its any more complicated than that although I might have a minor detail or consideration wrong.
You will never get away from consulting published sources for load data and you shouldn't even consider doing so. If, 10 years from now find yourself still knee deep into handloading the bookshelf closest to your reloading bench will be bursting with manuals and data books with copyrights spanning 50+ years.
* ON EDIT: In my situation I have spent a lot of time working up loads in 9mm using American Select. At one point in 2014 there was 8+ pounds of it in my bunker. Down to about 1 pound now.
In the last year or so I have seen this powder in the stores, at gun shows and on-line very few times. I'm having a difficult time convincing myself that I should continue to search for a product that is difficult to locate and has numerous viable substitutes.
American Select was a budget powder but in the overall scheme of things, handgun loads use such a small amount of powder that the cost per round between the least expensive and most expensive powders amounts to about 1 cent.
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OP
OP
1KPerDay
Member
I also used up 8 lbs of American Select during the obamascare loading primarily 9mm. Great powder and I'd buy it again without reservation. At the time it was pretty much the only powder still available because people didn't know what it was.
LiveLife
Member
As others posted, IMO I think Hodgdon intended for IMR Target to compete with Alliant Bullseye to Titegroup range of fast burning powders which are popular with bullseye to action pistol match shooters using lighter "target" loads.
I am doing IMR Target/Red/Green comparison testing with Vectan Ba 9.5/AS/Ba 9 along with Shooters World/Lovex powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10490012
IMR Target chrono data from Glock 22/KKM conversion barrel:
RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130":
4.0-4.1 gr: 1008-981-991-1023-1034 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1049-1053-1067-1055-1085 fps
4.5-4.6 gr: 1162-1166-1138-1110-1151 fps
RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN @ 1.130":
4.0-4.1 gr: 986-1002-1071-975-1002 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1024-1054-1030-1036-1030 fps
RMR 124 gr Hardcore Match RN @ 1.145":
4.0-4.1 gr: 959-991-984-986-931 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1049-1033-1018-1063-1046 fps
IMR Target is a small flake powder that meters with .1 gr variance for me. Based on my initial load development and comparison testing, I find IMR Target to produce accurate loads with comparable and smaller 10 shot groups at 25 yards than most other powders from Bullseye to W231/HP-38 burn rate powders - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-vectan-ba-9-5-ba-9.817796/#post-10508215
I will be continuing my testing with scoped Glock 22/KKM and Sig 1911 along with Just Right carbine in 9mm and 45ACP calibers next.
Wis-Harpo
Member
I just got a Mec Grabber back from my son, and plan on trying out the Green in Sporting Clays 12 gauge shells. I was reloading 20 gauge shells on my 600 Jr with 20/28 powder. Now I have to learn to load clockwise on the Grabber,and not counter clockwise as on my 600 Jr. While Red Dot was used for years, the new Green shows lower pressures with the same or higher speeds. It is advertised as being cleaner, but cleaner is relative.
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