Incident report: Goblin encounter

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Relevant facts:

My wife is a big, strong she-lion of a woman (not unlike Tamara). She has completed all of her requirements (CCW class, successful target engagement, $115 fee and red-tape runaround from inept state gubmint) and is waiting for her CCW license to arrive. Her "principles" will not allow her to carry until it's here. :rolleyes:

She runs a wholesale newspaper business where she delivers to grocery and convenience stores, and racks in another (very affluent) area of our town.
Usually between the hours of 3-5am.

(I did this for 3 years along with my day job, and it got to be too much, so she took it over at the end of last year-- probably to show me what a weenie I am--you don't mess with Mrs. Monk).

Anyway:
On Tuesday morning ~4am, she pulled into Hardee's to fill the rack machine on each side of the store. She always does a quick loop around the building to scan before stopping, and saw no one. She gets out, beeps the machine with her electronic opener, and puts her stack of papers in. Her car is parked behind her (no more than 2 feet from where she is standing), and with the door open and window down, she essentially has a barrier from the front direction.

She closes the machine and sees a man standing at the front left hood area of the car. :what:
As she sits down in the drivers seat and closes the door (window is down), he walks toward her, grabs her arm and says "what time is it?"

By then, she's grabbed her pepper spray in the dashboard cubby with the other hand. While shaking the OC vigorously, she replied "I don't know, and I SUGGEST you'd better go ask somebody else." (I imagine this to have sounded akin to the low growl of a cornered panther)

It took him about 2 more seconds to see and recognize the OC, and he let go, sprung backwards and said "Okay...I will!" and took off to the woods at the back of the parking lot.

She was more mad than anything else at that point (she said he was very drunk). She went up to the convenience store across the street (where she knows the employees well) and called the Sherriff's Dept. and filed a report.

Once he closed the distance and grabbed her arm, it became an assault.
She says now, she thinks she should have sprayed him.
She also says if she had had her CCW with her, it was DEFINITELY a 'draw weapon' situation.

Please give us some review/debriefing/opinions on this incident.
Should it have been handled differently? We've already been back over the situational awareness factor; even so, it may not have made a large difference to have seen where he popped out from.

Thanks
Felonious Monk
 
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She says now, she thinks she should have sprayed him.


I agree. Contact was made - discussion is no longer appropriate. Action time.


Gas pedal. CCW or not.

Again agree. With VIGOR. Right after the spray. If the perp gets hurt - oh well.



Glad she's okay.
 
"What time is it?"

"Time for you to let go, or face the consequences and repercussions..."
 
Once the grab of the arm happened, the only response should have been a face full of OC spray followed up by several swift kicks to the goin as he writhed in pain on the sidewalk.

hillbilly
 
Yes, the pattern seems to be

A) Disable the attacker

B) evacuate the area

C) alert the cops....

In my first post I just got all caught up in the "A" phase.....

hillbilly
 
Monk:
Its good that she survived unhurt. Does your state law allow her to leave a pistol either on the seat (in plain view) or in the cubby the OC was in (concealed) without her permit?

A copy of the police report sent to the CCW licensing folks might get them to get a move on if she's no where near the statuatory time limit.

Kharn
 
Kharn-- Not sure re: open carry in the car.

However, I'm comfortable with what she's worked out for carry once the papers come from the Reich. It's a quick-zip pouch that the Fobus holster and gun fits neatly into, and I've slit the back of the pouch and pushed the paddle section through to hook over the beltline. Holds VERY securely, but with the (tactical) little paracord ring I've put on the zipper, she's quicker than I am pulling my P32 from pocket carry.

The other thing is: riding at about 3 o'clock on her hip in the pouch, in THIS scenario (approached/attacked while seated inside the car), pocket carry would be MUCH more problematic than the Fobus/pouch assembly.
And it looks like a PDA case. ;)

Gawd help 'em if there's ever a next time.

(FelMo walks away muttering...maybe arming this woman wasn't the smartest move after all... :uhoh: ) ;)
 
Another thought, do you have a family dog she could stuff in the car for the morning ride? If anybody came close the dog would probably start barking, giving her a heads-up while she is concentrating on loading the rack.

Kharn
 
Kharn-- Yeah! One of the dogs would be a great idea, except for the strangest thing...they BOTH get carsick when they ride longer than about 15 minutes!. :barf:

The sheltie's virtually a stuffed animal, but would do for a bark alarm, and the chow/lab would do for deterrence as well, except they both are tossing cookies when in the car.
Anybody know how to stop THAT?

Wait-- I know-- get another dog! I've wanted an Akita, or a Great Pyrenees, or a St. Bernard for a long time...
 
Monk,

BRAVO for your wife. She did well. I admire and respect her attitude. "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" is a favorite pursuit on THR, but none of us were there and, since she handled the entire incident so well, I am inclined to tip my hat, assign an A+, and suggest we leave it at that.

And, by the way, delivering papers, in unsavory areas, during the "wee small hours" is dangerous work. I sincerely recommend she carry the MOMENT her CCW arrives.

With best regards -- Roy
 
Thanks Roy!

I'll pass that along to her! She'll really appreciate it.

The amazing thing is that I ran the route for 3 years with never a single incident (it's in the most affluent area of our town); now that she's been doing it since January, she's come across TWO dead bodies, a fight in progress, and now this.

Makes ya wonder if it's just getting worse out there!?!

...but yes, she'll be armed and dangerous the minute it gets here.
 
Does your state law allow her to leave a pistol either on the seat (in plain view) or in the cubby the OC was in (concealed) without her permit?
In this particular situation, leaving the gun in the car could have been a very bad idea:
Her car is parked behind her (no more than 2 feet from where she is standing), and with the door open and window down, she essentially has a barrier from the front direction....

She closes the machine and sees a man standing at the front left hood area of the car.
The man might have easily seen and grabbed the gun before she did (although he may have had trouble deciding which gun to grab if he was drunk).

OC carried on the body instead on in the car might have been a good idea.

Felonious Monk, I think your wife did fine. Attacker got the message and nobody was hurt. That's a good day. Although, dousing him with OC might have made her feel better.
 
What she did worked.

She would have been justified in spraying the guy and giving him a Night in the Ruts. But pepper spray is only of limited effectiveness, so it might have just made things worse if she sprayed him. He backed off, so she didn't have to find out one way or the other.
 
"OC carried on the body instead on in the car might have been a good idea."

Ditto!!! Why not carry OC the same way she will be careening the pistol?
 
Horsesense--

EXCELLENT idea. In fact, I'll have her see if she can fit it (should be no problem) in the pouch/holster, so she can mentally get used to having her "SD weapon" there at all times.

Thanks!
FM
 
FM, glad everything worked out OK.
I don't know where you are but, I live out west just beyond the most affluent area of Ktown.

Now, I get to pass along all that your wife has witnessed to my "Oh, you're just paranoid carrying that gun" friends.
 
Bainx-- the route is entirely in Farragut on KP and Campbell Sta'n.

That's ALSO where she came across the dead people (one on the ground @ Krogers, one in their car up by FHS).

So be SURE and pass that along to the "Oh, it CAN'T happen HERE" Country Club crowd.

By the way, the Sherriff's Dep't. tells us that out by the CSta'n exit near Cracker Barrell, is a known "bed & breakfast" place in the undergrowth for the homeless, vagrants, etc. :uhoh: :rolleyes:
 
Make sure you tell her that our Monday morning quarterbacking in NO way implies that we don't think she's awesome! She can give my wife lessons anytime!
 
She kept calm, controlled the situation, listened to her intuition that she didn't need to scrape the guy off the side of the building, but got ready to respond with force, made it apparent that she was NOT going to be a victem and then reported the incident after safely withdrawing. She did well!

Ya'll come down to the house and punch some holes in paper some weekend and I'll show her some ugly stuff to do to goblins while she's working up the force continuum.

BTW - the weekend OFM classes have started and we're meeting on Sundays at 1600.
 
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