Creepy nighttime encounter - long post

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honkeoki

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Hollywood, FL
Advice requested. If you're not interested in the situation, please skip to the last 4 paragraphs below.

I live in a poor neighborhood in South Florida. I've been propositioned by prostitutes, threatened with physical violence, been the target of more than a few "hard looks."

Last night around 10 pm I stood in my front yard, walking my dog -- a 45-lb. harrier hound, too friendly to attack. A woman walked past on the sidewalk. I watched her walk by. She saw me and turned around and approached me, moving at a fast walk.

I was only 20' from the sidewalk, maybe 15' from my front door. The woman walked onto my yard, where she stopped and asked me for a cigarette.

I told her no.

She walked closer. I stood there like a numbskull, staring at her. She was a head shorter than me, scrawny. But she looked strung out -- her eyes were big as fifty-cent pieces. She walked within 3' of me -- I think she would've kept coming except my dog tried to jump up on her.

When she finally stopped, the woman shoved her hands, palms up, toward my face. All I did was flinch back.

She told me she'd just been attacked and robbed and that the guys who'd done this were just down the street. She pointed. I looked. Indeed, a group of three teenagers stood under a streetlight about 3/4 of the way down the block. "They've been stalking me," she said. "They won't leave me alone."

I finally realized that this woman was drugged up, or crazy, or both. I looked at her again and didn't take my eyes off her. She still stood very close. I took two steps back, into an ornamental hedge. She followed me. I stuck my hand in bathrobe and told her, "I got my cell phone right here. Let's call the police so they can come down here and sort this out." Of course I didn't have anything in my pocket but my fist.

She shook her head. I insisted, she declined, finally she walked away.

Now, I already know I was stupid for several reasons, not limited to: letting a stranger get so close. Taking my eyes off her after I let her get too close. Walking outside unarmed when I know from experience my neighborhood isn't the safest.

I would really like your advice on what to do. I used to carry my Makarov in my bathrobe pocket when I went outside at night, but I don't have a CCW permit. I have one of those four-D-cell Maglites I could lug around, as well. Should I get a nice legal hunting knife, or some OC spray? Should I have called the police immediately? Should I have called the police afterward, just to report the incident?

If I had had my Makarov or my Maglite, what should I have done?

I appreciate all input – even those of you who say I must be braindead. I grew up in the Ozarks where folks all knew one another and feeling unsafe is a novel and not entirely welcome experience.
 
Get a CCW, you're in florida.

Also, if you were on your property, you could have carried it, i believe.

Now, I don't think THIS situation warranted display of a firearm, but it seems like you don't live in the best of neighborhoods.


James
 
Reasonable Fear

I can understand that you were nervous. I would have been too.

IANAL, but the "universal standard" seems to be that a person is allowed to use only the amount of force he believes is reasonably necessary to protect himself or another from the illegal use of force by another and no more.

From your description, you were not in fear of immedaite death or serious bodily injury, so your response was entirely legal and adequate to the situation. As far as your level of preparedness is concerned, you seem to be beating yourself up pretty effectively, so accept the lesson and move on.

1) Get your Florida CHL. (Most states recognize your front yard as still private property, so no CHL is required as long as you actually are inside your property lines. Get the CHL anyway.)

2)Read Jeff Cooper's book "Principles of Personal Defense".

3) If you are an autopistol kind of guy, read Gabe Suarez's book "Tactical Pistol Marksmanship". If you prefer wheelguns, read Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner". Better yet, read both.
 
In this case its doubtufull you could have gotten away with any use of force. It is a very good idea to get a CHL and some OC spray. Its better to carry dead weight than to have someone else carry your dead body.
 
What to do:
Get CHL, carry your Mak with you, even if it's just to take the dog out. I carry OC as a healthy compromise between nothing and deadly force. In this case, and IANAL, I believe it would have been appropriate to brandish OC and ask the young lady to leave. On the other hand, I don't know that I could turn someone down who needed help, personally would have called the cops (and hopefully had my cell phone on me so it'd be possible).

What you should have done:
Good move bluffing the cell phone, given that you didn't have anything else (and the first thing to do would have been to HAVE something; maglight, firearm, OC, etc..)
 
The cellphone bluff was a good move, and every one's advice re getting a permit, using it, and OC spray is good too.

My addition: Do not underestimate the power of your voice issuing polite, firm, and direct commands.

When I was a young man, I was forced to stop for gas in a bad part of town, where I was accosted by a junkie/prostitute, who leaned on my car, and began badgering me for either money or a ride, without presenting an overt threat. After a minute or so of simply saying "no, I can't help you", and the like, even going so far as to let my car roll forward a few inches (a move she smoothly ignored in her constant stream of patter) it struck me like a bolt of lightning as to what I should do:

Simply look her in the eye, and in an even voice, give her a direct order that she could obey instantly.

"Miss, step away from the car."

Whether by reflex, or realization that I was no longer fumbling around, she complied, and I simply drove away calmly.
 
This is the kind of situation where OC spray is your friend. Get a canister of Fox Labs and keep it in your pocket. Better to be putting your hand on something rather than nothing. Lethal-force options like a knife or a gun would have been way out of proportion to the threat, given your description of the individual. Even the Maglite could land you in trouble; explaining to a jury why you swung a big chunk of flashlight at an unarmed homeless woman wouldn't be fun. Shining it in her face would've been fine, though.

I think you did fine with handling her and getting her to leave.
 
honkeoki

Hollywood is not exactly Liberty City, I don't want people on this board having the misconception that you live in a ghetto. It is also heavily patrolled by Hollywood police and BSO, who are both known for there quick arrival. Next time you got out do carry your cell phone and like someone else said get your ccw, its very easy to do.
 
Agree, get your CCW.

A flashlight in your pocket would have done you a world of good. Not to be used as a striking weapon or anything like that -- just to shine it in her eyes as she approached you. Odds are a bright light in her eyes would have stopped her from coming closer without any further action on your part.

pax
 
Put up a fence, any kind of fence to stop trolls and goblins from wandering in your yard. If you can't put up a real fence then plant some foliage that has thorns or spikes in the shape of a fence to deter the bad people. Carry quality OC fog or an Air-taser when you are in the yard. Keep an aluminum bat by the front door, just in case. Put up motion lights that are mounted high enough that they can't be tampered with.
 
Never let her get that close. "Stop, get off my yard (or property)".
Get a CCW.
Check Floridas property laws, you might be able to legally conceal on your front lawn. That said, my property, my rules. Damned if the state is going to stop me from being able to be on my own property armed. If you go in the front yard, go armed. mag lite and the mak.
If you can find a way to move, I'd suggest it. strongly. I don't know what your situation is, I don't want to judge, so this is only a strong suggestion.
 
Definitely not Liberty City!

Jeff-10 -- You're absolutely right. Hollywood is not Liberty City, nor DC, nor New Orleans just north of Bourbon Street. Hollywood is generally a very safe, nice area full of friendly police officers.

I just happen to live in a neighborhood full of single-story roach motels whose inhabitants, friends and families make the neighborhood more than a little shady.

geekWithA.45 -- I think this is **fantastic** advice. I'm a teacher and I know from classroom experience that the right look and tone are sometimes better than a threat.

Here's what I'm going to do:
-- get my CCW permit
-- buy some OC spray for me and the wife
-- NOT beat creepy people up with a flashlight unless I'm being attacked
-- keep my eyes open and my brain working

Thanks all for your advice and wisdom.
 
This scenerio is a great example of why I carry what I do; When I get dressed, my surefire light and my cell phone go on my belt, and the OC spray goes in my pocket. I'm a lot more likely to be involved in a non-lethal confrontation than a lethal one. I've always felt that, if I feel the need to carry a gun, I can't justify not also carrying less than lethal alternatives. Having the stuff all of the time is easier than trying to figure out when I should carry it.

On a couple of occasions now, I've used a surefire to the eyes to back someone away a bit. Works great.

Stop going outside in your bath robe. OC is a handy tool to have avaialble, as is a bright light and a phone. Avail yourself of your state's willingness to issue you a CCW. And for God's sake, be more assertive where your personal space is concerned.
 
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