Infirmities? Auto vs. Revolver

[UncleEd]

I ain't what I used to be.

And while I'm a dedicated revolver user, I do favor
at times the auto pistol

Numerous times, usually posted in the Revolver section
of The High Road, shooters have said they've turned to
revolvers because they can no longer work the slides of
the auto pistols.

I know that's true for me but with one exception in regard
full sized auto pistols in 9mm.

That exception is the Beretta 92 in its various 9mm models. Not
only is it the softest shooting/low recoil pistol around (as
determined by Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat) but I've found it
easily manipulated with my weakened hands.

Activating the slide is no problem for me.

One drawback for some is the size of the grip/trigger reach. But
with the emphasis on the Vertec shaped grip as featured in
the new 92GTS, those with smaller hands may find it very usable.

Combined with the use of the Uplula magazine loader, those with
infirmed hands may enjoy once again the use of an auto pistol.

I'm sure others have chosen other full sized auto pistols to get around
their infirmities and I'd love to hear from them.

By the way, Beretta has really worked on their triggers and the
DA/SA is really no problem, especially for those already familiar
with DA revolvers.

And of course the revolver is still an outstanding choice.

 

[JTQ]

I do follow most of these, "I'm old/small/weak/injured/child/woman" threads, because I'm not a big guy and I'm getting older.

I do see a lot of recommendations for revolvers in these threads, but other than the above mentioned picking up brass, at this point in my shooting life, I'd much rather use the big muscles of my upper body to rack the slide of an auto loader (which theoretically I could do once in my life, and just keep adding full mags each time the slide locked back) to get the better trigger of an auto loader rather than have to use the little muscles in my trigger finger to work a 10 lb(ish) revolver trigger for every shot, and usually only 6 of those before I have to use some manual dexterity to reload a revolver.

I'm always amazed at the number of revolver recommendations we get in these "I'm old/small/weak/injured/child/woman" threads. I can only assume these recommendations are from fairly large men, with big strong hands, that can get a lot of trigger finger on the trigger giving them a whole bunch of leverage to pull a DA revolver trigger. For those with small hands, that aren't strong, the long reach to many revolver triggers, and the heavy pull of those triggers makes working a DA revolver a challenge for many of those folks.

As long as you have enough upper body strength to allow the slide of an auto loader to function during recoil, I see a lot of advantage to an auto loader for those that are old or have other functional issues with a hand gun.

 

[trackskippy]

One thing that always seems to be lacking in these sorts of threads is, keeping up on your overall physical fitness, and in this case, your "shooting" physical fitness. I understand that can be a challenge, but the longer you stay fit, the longer you'll be able to do things.

One thing I quickly noticed a few years back when I retired was, how quickly you start to lose if you don't continue to maintain. I know its a lot easier to slow down and go easy than it is to keep up, but trust me, keeping up will make you feel a lot better and let you continue to do the things you like to do, a lot longer.

One way to keep up shooting-wise, is simply to constantly handle and manipulate what you have and dry fire a lot. That will help keep most of the "shooting" muscles toned and up to working things that might be getting tougher to work.

 

[Targa]

Staying in shape is not always the simple answer to a handgun manipulation problem. I am 51 and am fairly strong but years of what I am assuming to be wear and tear on my hands from manual labor has taken its toll with a bit of arthritis. It’s not debilitating but it certainly is getting worse every day and I have noticed that my grip strength is deteriorating at a fairly decent pace even with exercises to slow that progression.

 

[trackskippy]

There never is a "simple" answer and someone is always going to have issues that are worse than others, for whatever reason. Even so, the better you can keep up with staying as physically fit as possible, the better off you'll be, and all around, not just with shooting.

I spent most of my life working active jobs that involved long days of a lot of physical/manual labor and know what its like. Ive had my share of wear and tear, but I do believe that staying in decent shape all along has made things easier on me than if I hadn't.

What I am seeing now too is, not keeping up with that level of activity I had in the past, is taking more of a toll on me now than not, and the less I do the worse things seem to get.

And I have my share of achy joints too, and they are annoying. I do find, for me anyway, that working them seems to be better for them, and me, than babying them though.

As far as shooting goes, Ive found that daily dry fire has been a big help. Constant handling and working with different guns helps keep the brain sharp and all the associated muscles up and loose.

I don't do a whole lot of position type rifle shooting much anymore, but I still work on getting down (and back up) from field positions a couple of times a week when dry firing one of my rifles. Just stuff like that goes a long way at keeping up.

If you only handle your guns when you shoot, and especially if you arent shooting a lot, I can see where you might have a different experience. Im just offering, what for me at least, seems to be a solution to, or at least a help with that.

 

[JTQ]

Staying in shape is not always the simple answer to a handgun manipulation problem. I am 51 and am fairly strong but years of what I am assuming to be wear and tear on my hands from manual labor has taken its toll with a bit of arthritis. It’s not debilitating but it certainly is getting worse every day and I have noticed that my grip strength is deteriorating at a fairly decent pace even with exercises to slow that progression.

In your condition, what works better for you, a revolver or semi-auto.

 

[Targa]

Revolvers are definitely the easiest on me to manipulate. I still everyday carry an auto simply because it is the easiest for me to conceal while still being accurate with the gun but when the day comes that an auto is more pain than reward I will probably replace the subcompact 9mm with a K frame or King Cobra sized frame. I can tell you that Uplula magazine loaders are what allows me to stay in the auto game.

 

[Kleanbore]

Try the M&P EZ models for low effort slide racking.

Arthritis and tendonitis work against my use of a revolver.

 

[Old Dog]

That exception is the Beretta 92 in its various 9mm models. Not
only is it the softest shooting/low recoil pistol around (as
determined by Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat) but I've found it
easily manipulated with my weakened hands.

Interesting to me that you note this, as I find that there are far more detractors of the 92/M9 than folks that actually have experience with the pistol and appreciate its major attributes -- the ease of racking its slide, and how soft it shoots. My wife, who has advanced arthritis in her hands and wrists, still maintains that the Beretta is easier for her to rack the slide and shoot than any smaller auto pistols and all our DA revolvers (she absolutely hates J-frames and is only lukewarm about K-frame .38s).

Staying in shape is not always the simple answer to a handgun manipulation problem.

Yep. While I agree with @trackskippy that staying in shape is important (and obviously, we all know shooters who contribute to their own problems by totally slacking on their fitness), I've had to concede (pushing 70 years now) that my body and capabilities have substantially degraded and no matter how often or how hard I work out, I will never reclaim the levels of strength and fitness I had even 10 or 15 years ago. At some point for many of us, arthritis and other physical conditions will become debilitating and may impact how long we can even engage in light recreational shooting. For those of us who've undergone multiple surgeries to fix damage we did to our bodies in our teens, twenties and thirties, you know what I'm talking about.

As my arthritis, CTS, and elbow and shoulder problems (tendonitis, tendinosis, torn labrums, etc.) continue to worsen, I seem to spend far more time shooting my full-sized Berettas and SIG autos than other handguns. I definitely agree that the Beretta is a viable option and have been a fan of the Beretta 92/M9 for a long time; after a long absence, it's definitely returned to a position of favor in my regular range gun rotation.

I'm not ready to go to my little tip-up barrel .32 ACP Tomcat yet, nor have I yet been compelled to check out one of the S&W EZ pistols... but maybe that time will come.

 

[JTQ]

Revolvers are definitely the easiest on me to manipulate. I still everyday carry an auto simply because it is the easiest for me to conceal while still being accurate with the gun but when the day comes that an auto is more pain than reward I will probably replace the subcompact 9mm with a K frame or King Cobra sized frame. I can tell you that Uplula magazine loaders are what allows me to stay in the auto game.

Like I said, I always pay attention to these threads, and I'll make a mental note of your response, so thanks.

I'm about 15 years older than you, and while I don't have an arthritis problem, yet, I expect it will catch up with me sooner or later. Currently, I'm probably most limited by my trigger finger, so for me, an auto loaders trigger is a big advantage for me over a DA revolver. I also still find most auto-loader manipulations easy enough that I'd rather not give up the trigger or capacity (which allows fewer manipulations than a revolver) advantages an auto-loader has over a revolver.

I am interested if aging changes my perspective on this debate, though.

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot IDPA yesterday with S&W M&P instead of my usual Colt. My trigger finger has been aching.
Obviously trigger pull vs arthritis but is was it THAT trigger or any? I’ll find out when I get back to a crisp trigger.

 

[.38 Special]

I recently had the pleasure of helping an elderly lady (mother of an acquaintance) learn to shoot. She is well beyond being able to manage a semi-auto slide, and had a great deal of trouble with medium-frame DA revolvers - the weight of the gun was something of an issue, but she could not pull the D.A. trigger at all, and even pulling back the hammer for SA use was a real struggle. Eventually a Ruger Bearcat was produced, and while she could not manage the loading gate, the hammer was relatively easy for her. The gun is now on the way back from a well-known gunsmith who gave it a careful trigger job, with the entire goal being to reduce the hammer pull without affecting reliability.

I am no fan of the .22 for defense, nor of single action revolvers for the same purpose. In this particular instance, though, I believe it is the best compromise - and there is now one more Jew in the world who feels a bit less afraid than she did.

 

[chicharrones]

I know that's true for me but with one exception in regard
full sized auto pistols in 9mm.

That exception is the Beretta 92 in its various 9mm models. Not
only is it the softest shooting/low recoil pistol around (as
determined by Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat) but I've found it
easily manipulated with my weakened hands.

Activating the slide is no problem for me.

One drawback for some is the size of the grip/trigger reach. But
with the emphasis on the Vertec shaped grip as featured in
the new 92GTS, those with smaller hands may find it very usable.

9mm 1911s are fantastic in this regard. They have an easy to rack slide with a lot of gripping area. And a single action trigger no with no worries about double action trigger hand strength.

If I was flush with cash, I'd probably own a Dan Wesson DWX Compact in 9mm which blends a double stack CZ with a 1911. In fact, I ought to sell a few guns and just make that happen.

 

[JTHunter]

Staying in shape is not always the simple answer to a handgun manipulation problem. I am 51 and am fairly strong but years of what I am assuming to be wear and tear on my hands from manual labor has taken its toll with a bit of arthritis. It’s not debilitating but it certainly is getting worse every day and I have noticed that my grip strength is deteriorating at a fairly decent pace even with exercises to slow that progression.

I "feel" your pain as I'm already there, almost 20 years ahead of you. Osteo on both sides of the family and rheumatoid on one. I place my palms on a table yet the first two fingers of both hands can't be made to lie flat. Index fingers of both are "twisted" in the last section about 25-30 degrees inwards.
It's hell getting old.

 

[UncleEd]

9mm 1911s are fantastic in this regard. They have an easy to rack slide with a lot of gripping area. And a single action trigger with no worries about double action trigger hand strength.
.

Six to 8 pound double action triggers are easily attainable on Beretta 92s
and some of the newer models do not require any spring changes. Also
models in the 92 family exist that are single action only with 1911 type safeties.

Currently 19 models/variations exist within the 92s (more properly the 90 series)
in 9 mm. The Vertec models mimic the 1911's thinner flat grip design.

I don't think it necessary but if one wants to get into a premium grade 92, consider
the super slick Ernest Langdon models.

 

[chicharrones]

Six to 8 pound double action triggers are easily attainable on Beretta 92s
and some of the newer models do not require any spring changes. Also
models in the 92 family exist that are single action only with 1911 type safeties.

Currently 19 models/variations exist within the 92s (more properly the 90 series)
in 9 mm. The Vertec models mimic the 1911's thinner flat grip design.

I don't think it necessary but if one wants to get into a premium grade 92, consider
the super slick Ernest Langdon models.

I've had a Beretta 92, and I almost bought a 92GTS recently. But I didn't due to being spoiled with how 1911s and CZ75s fit my hands.

I do have to admit though, that taking the Beretta down for cleaning is so much easier.

 

[goon]

I’ve thought about this lately - because I don’t want to have to replace all my guns as I age. There’s also the chance that you might be injured and need to tone things down as you recover.

I think the light weight and mild recoil of 5.56 will make an AR carbine a good choice. As noted a 9mm 1911 is a very mild, accurate handgun that can be managed easily. You can cock the hammer first to make racking the slide even easier. I’ve looked at the terminal effectiveness of .38 wadcutters and they might be a good option for smaller revolvers, and so might something with a little more weight like a GP-100 or L Frame S&W loaded with .38 +P. Tactical 12 gauge 00 will probably come in handy, and I already have .410 shells in inventory. I’ll start adding more 000 buck as it becomes available, and maybe pick up a compact pump action at some point.

 

[jmr40]

I'm a semi-auto guy. I just like them better. But the time may come when I may not be able to load magazines or work the slides on a pistol. Some are easier than others. Most magazines are pretty easy to load for the 1st half of the mag. I can usually get 10 in a 17 round mag with ease. It is the last 2-3 that are hard, and I may just have to settle for 10-12 rounds instead of 15-17 at some point.

For a while I didn't even own a revolver, but when I ran across a good deal on a S&W 65 with a 3" barrel I bought it. It's not my favorite gun now, but it may become the only handgun I can use in 20 years. I suppose I could get my son or one of the grandkids to load mags for me and get them ready to fire if I get too feeble.

 

[wesmonster]

Try the M&P EZ models for low effort slide racking.

Arthritis and tendonitis work against my use of a revolver.

This is my recommendation.
I'm a big fan of revolvers too but my old S&W mod. 49 Bodyguard has a heavy DA trigger pull and with good SD rounds it's not easy for weak hands to shoot. And most carry revolvers I see aren't any better. My Bodyguard does have a notched exposed hammer but that takes some effort too.

I have a S&W EZ .380 and it's not only the easiest to operate, recoil is so light it's the most accurate gun I can fire with just my non-dominate hand.

Whatever you choose, spend some time on the range and make sure you can operate it safely and quickly. If not, find what does. A .22 on target is more effective than a 10mm off target.

 

[jstert]

i was just thinking about this very topic after reading some snarky comments elsewhere about “hopeless boomers addicted to revolvers or 22s for protection.” infirmities from age, illness or injury make one a more tempting target by predators: it’s the first law of the jungle. surely the tacticool kids will never become infirm themselves…

for this reason i got a s&w ez 380acp pistol. it truly is easy in all regards. so is an ultra reliable, ruger sr22 pistol, which is my go-to travel piece.

centerfire and rimfire revolvers with single-action capability are my long time favorites. i stashed a heritage roughrider loaded with 22lr stingers at my late mom’s and late aunt’s apartments. my bedside piece is a taurus 856. i recently added a ruger 22wmr single nine to my stable. i shoot alot of top shelf rimfire ammo. i can darn well hit my targets. added to my firearms choices are prudent lifestyle and location choices that are just as essential for fully layered protection.

get a firearm that you can financially, emotionally and physically practice with alot. put lots of rounds on target. keep it handy as is safely and lawfully possible.

 

[film495]

I'd think it would be easier in a pinch to cock a hammer using the side of a table or object, than it would be to wrack a slide, and hope it chambered a round. Like in a pinch and if I was having issues with my hands, for sure I would want the revolver. I currently carry a Taurus 856 and just carry regular .38 Special, no plus P, it is an ultralight after all. It hurts to practice with it too much, so - I've made up a bunch of reloads that are kind of mouse farts to see if it is more fun and hurts my hand less. I also carry an NAA Mini Revolver .22 Mag hiking, just cause it is easy to carry. I just want something and I'll carry whatever fits what I'm doing. For range, I'd rather practice with a full size 9mm, the full size grip is way easier on my hands Too many full power factory rounds through an UL revolver, even .38 Special, I can expect some lingering pain that will go on for months on and off. base knuckles of my shooting hand.

 

[Tallball]

I broke a finger on my dominant hand a few years ago. All that I was comfortable shooting was a couple of DA revolvers with good triggers.

I'm 58 and now my hands are giving me trouble most days. I still have the good revolvers.

There are 32 caliber revolvers waiting for me as I get older and weaker.

 

[jstert]

I currently carry a Taurus 856 and just carry regular .38 Special, no plus P, it is an ultralight after all. It hurts to practice with it too much, so - I've made up a bunch of reloads that are kind of mouse farts to see if it is more fun and hurts my hand less.

i laid in a stash of 148gr wadcutters and magtech 125gr cbc shorts when both soft-shooting 38sp rounds were relatively available and cheap several years ago. highly recommended if recoil must be mitigated.

 

[halfmoonclip]

We used to recommend Centennials to our rookie handgun students, forgetting that shooting double action is a skill that not everyone possesses. Our conclusion was that revos were easier to teach, autos were easier to shoot. Some students were still puzzled over an auto's ability to reload itself. Some were determined to rack the slide, repeatedly.
If it must be a revo, get a decent 'smith to lighten and slick the action.
Still love Centennials, but find I'm a better shot with an auto. But I won't own a Kahr; it takes two men and a boy to rack the slide on their .380s.
Moon

 

[halfmoonclip]

BTW, been reflecting on this; were autopistols fitted with more aggressive racking grooves, a lot of the problems could be resolved. P365s have great grooves, and some makers flare the last grooves at the rear of the slide.
Moon