Informal SHTF Rifle Shooting Poll

[444]

Bartholomew Roberts: Nice of you to join us. I have been expecting you to chime in here since this started.

"The gun store commandos and gun forum ninjas who debate stopping power and AR vs M1A and bullet yaw and max effective range could stand to shoot one of these matches and realize it has most to do about the rifleman and only a bit about the rifle"

I think I mentioned at some point in this thread that was one of my main points. People endlesslly discuss long range performance of these two cartridges, yet most of them couldn't his a truck at long range making the whole discussion moot IMO.

 

[slzy]

as close to bragging as i hope to ever be. on an army range we were shooting baloons .the entire squad ran out of ammo except for moi,i flipped the sight up on a worn out m16,walked it in on third shot. 460 yards.would need optics now,unless target was in open. 600 yards is not very far at all,as far as running goes.some one can close a lot of ground in 5 minutes.way yonder more than 600 yards.if you have the place to shoot,i can't see where it would hurt to prepare for most any eventuality.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I used to shoot high power matches. On calm days I could make hits at 600 yards without much trouble. On windy days I was screwed. I never could figure out the wind.

That was back when I had my match grade AR-15. I sold that rifle because it was useless for anything except highpower matches.

My FAL is a fine rifle. I never had a chance to shoot it at long distances. But I'm accurate enough with it that I think I could make hits. I'd have to trust the range markings on the rear sight to get the bullet drop right. But I'm selling that rifle as well, so I suppose it doesn't matter.

This thread is a good reminder that I need to get out there and learn how my remaining rifles shoot at long disntances. Thanks.

Oh, and I need to teach myself how to shoot in the wind...

 

[444]

Playing around with drills such as those four mentioned by Bartholomew Roberts teach you a lot of your REAL skill level and about how your rifle performs in real life as opposed to how it performs on the internet.
One key thing is to perform the drills and try to make them sort of realistic. For example, when you start each one, you could have your weapon in the condition you would carry it in: normally this means the safety is on. You might have the weapon on a sling, or maybe at the low ready. You use the time limits listed and be honest with yourself if you can't make them. So, you start the timer, you get the weapon off the sling, you assume your firing position, you remove the safety, and you fire the shot (s), in the allotted time.
There is no "walking" the rounds into the target: his drills specify that at 300 and 500 yards you fire ONE shot and hit the target COM. The point is that you know your rifle and where it hits at that range. This isn't trial and error. An enemy or an animal isn't going to stand there while you lob rounds in until you get the range.
Drills should also be added that include magazine changes on the clock such as the El Presidente'. Again, this will show you how practical your chosen rifle really is.
If I could get most of the people on this board to actually try some of this stuff, I think the whole tone of many threads would change dramatically.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Man this thread has not died yet?
long range SHTF weapons Well lets say you bring with you what you have. Now its your choice if you have put in what ever productive training you think you need.
For as far as competitions go you have alot of different types of matches. Now my getting old going on 52 body is not what it used to be so running around shooting IDPA or what ever the hot sport is now does not always fit the person who wishes to learn.

For the average shooter it is hard to find the time to put in, in order to get what some of us call good at something. I have had that talk with some folks on the AMU before about us Duffers. If we shot for a living we just might be pretty good also. With family and work I know it is hard for some of you out there to put in the required time as for 99.9% of us it is a hobby.

Now if you have the time I suggest taking what ever classes you think you need to learn something. But do not expect to be the best at what you want to do with just that.
I have offered a few folks the opertunity to learn shooting with a ar15 in prone as far as I know it. How many folks have taken me up on it? (0).
A few have listened to my way of doing it and it has helped them not to have a train wreck day. Now That I plan on doing long range in the future (say a little this year) in a few years I have talked to a few friends and really want their help. What I know about a service rifle at up to 600 yards is fine but past that is a new game to me so I plan on cutting the learning curve time down by seeking help.

You must remember I could not teach you what I know even in one or two days about long range and that is if you already have it down somewhat. Might get the basics down but the rest of what you learn is up to you.

I'am far from the best and I know that but just putting in my time will not get me where I want to go. Seek out the things you want and learn them like its second nature. I might be wierd but like quite a few olympic shooters and others I shoot every day and 90% of it is in my head. It gets to be pretty automatic to look at a target no mater what it is and just know the distance and what it will take to get you a hit on the first shot.

 

[slzy]

i should have mentioned when i "walked " the round into the baloon i usually carried an m60 and i carried an m16 instead of a 1911 as a secondary weapon. this was the first time i had shot anything over 300m with a m16 and also the first time i had flipped up the long range aperture on the 16.so 2 shots to zero and one for effect on the fly is not too bad.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

To me, the real challenge is not so much the long range as much as it is being able to do the short and long range with the same rifle. Despite the modest distance of 15yds, the shoot a box-drill while moving in under 5 seconds drill is very demanding. If you can shoot that drill, you are already doing well. If you can shoot that and score first round hits and 500yds, you have a pretty good mastery of that rifle.

 

[762X39]

Hi Everybody, I am new on this list and I found the question to be very interesting.
My SHTF weapon would actually be my 14 inch barrelled shotgun (it is legal for me to possess one) with my 6.5 swede being my long range backup.
600 yards is beyond my range with the open sighted 6.5 but I do practice at 400 yards on movers (I think they are called #11 targets). To be able to engage targets at these distances requires constant practice (repetition is a useful training tool) while someone more skilled than you gently corrects and observes you.
I am very fortunate to shoot with a good group of people, we rent the local military range for 5 days over the summer months and get lots of practice at ranges of 100 to 800 yards (it will be in metres next year but I digress).
As a point of interest, my service weapon was a C7 (M16A4 I think is what you called it ) as well as a C9 (SAW or Minimi for you Americans).
I like most weapons from past conflicts but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Avtomat Kalishnakov as well as the Russian or Chinese SKS. I know alot of you will get tied up in knots by that statement (yeah I know the Yugo SKS is better made) but to me, a weapon that is rough around the edges but serviceable will serve me fine. It is my "hardened heart" that will save me when the "SHTF" not my weapon.

Regards

John

 

[444]

Welcome to the board.
I hope you enjoy your stay.

Your Swede is more than adequate for this little drill. Give it a try, you will surprise yourself.

 

[Brian Dale]

Hey, you've kept this thread going. Cool—now I can play.

Welcome to The High Road, John!

444,

This thread is about taking your SHTF rifle and hitting a cardboard target at 600 yards. Can you do it or not ? Have you actually done it or not ?

...and...

this isn't about a SHTF situation, it is about shooting your SHTF rifle. Just a question about how you feel you would do or how you know you have done on this one event skills test: take your honest, actual SHTF rifle and make one shot out of five on a target at 600 yards.

OK.

WayneConrad wrote,

Every able American should be able to pull off a war shot if needed.

+1.

I've tried it with an M1 in a Highpower match at Camp Butner, NC. I got some great coaching on the 600-yard line, I got hits and I scored points. That was my second-ever HP match, in September of 2001. I just fired my third-ever HP match in September, 2005.

My own personal M1 arrived from the CMP two hours ago.

So I'm working on it.

 

[Scout Sniper]

I would take more than one gun with me in a SHTF situation to begin with , but I tried out my old SKS /w a Monte Carlo stock & a 3x9 scope on it. it stays that way all the time. at 600 years I could hit the target 2 or 3 times out of 5. I don't know if there was enough power left in the round to actually make a vital kill at that range. if I was using this rifle in that situation I WOULDN'T TRY IT !!! if you are going to talk reality use your deer rifle to do it atleast 308 cal. or bigger.

 

[Stinkyshoe]

IamKris,
What a happy picture! Thank you!
Ss

 

[_N4Z_]

...

well as i'm sure it's already been said... shtf @ 600yards/meters whatever?? kooky talk.

at the age of 19, 20, 21, many many years ago, i qualified both expert and sharpshooter (different times) while in the army using ye ole m16. at that time the long shot was 300 meters (or around 300 yards), at man size flip up targets.

with those young eyes that shape was pretty darned small at 300m and i had 20/20 vision. ghost ring and post, no scope. twice that distance would be very very impressive sans scope imo.

 

[jacketch]

To me, the real challenge is not so much the long range as much as it is being able to do the short and long range with the same rifle. Despite the modest distance of 15yds, the shoot a box-drill while moving in under 5 seconds drill is very demanding. If you can shoot that drill, you are already doing well. If you can shoot that and score first round hits and 500yds, you have a pretty good mastery of that rifle.

I would agree with you on this. I think I could hit targets at 15(rapid), 50 100, 300 and 600 yards with my rifles but it would require at least three different guns to do it.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

I shot an iron sighted m-1aNM whilst in field gear from prone off a colt bipod at a moving target at 600 meters (first shot at a walking pace, second to last at a dead run) hit twice out of ten shots.


i haven't fired at anything farther than that.