Initial feedback Berry's 185 HBRN .45 ACP HP38 and Promo/Red Dot

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1KPerDay

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For posterity and for any interested: initial function and practical accuracy evaluation.



All mixed brass CCI 300 primers. All loads hit 8" plates well enough at 15 yards offhand to not be eliminated outright before formal accuracy testing. One mag each load in RIA GI 1911, Dan Wesson 1911, German SIG P220, and Glock 30 which has had problems with lighter loads in the past.

5.1 HP38 1.252" obviously too light. 1911s ok P220 jams Glock 30 jams. Flashy and dirty. Brass scorched lots of debris

5.7 HP38 1.252" flashy, distracting indoors. limp wrist jams in Glock 30 otherwise okay. Brass not particularly clean, considerable debris.

Promo 4.5 1.252" light recoil, Glock 30 jams. Too light. 1911s ran fine and SIG P220. Brass fairly dirty, some debris.

Promo 4.5 1.265" plunked fine in all pistols. Similar results to above. Too light for Glock. Others okay. Brass same.

Promo 5.1 1.252"
All ran fine, Glock brass to face every shot and weak ejection. Brass maybe a little cleaner but considerably dirty outside and maybe less debris.

Promo 5.1 1.265" 6th round nose in jam P220 and setback. Others ran fine but Glock BTF and weak ejection. Recoil light to moderate. Brass same as above.
 
My 185 grain plated loads did not start burning clean until I loaded them with 6.0 grains of W-231 (HP-38). Now the brass is clean and there is minimal residue - probably about the best that particular powder can do. I use Winchester LP primers in that load and shoot them from S&W 625s and a Glock 21.
 
If your looking for reduced loads that burn clean look no farther than WST. This will burn clean all the way down to 4.0gr using 185gr LSWC. With jacketed or plated your barrel friction will be higher and may not function at this extreme low powdered BE load. USE WITH CAUTION...
 
I found WST to work well with the Berrys 185 Gr HBRN. I like WST, and its close cousin, Competition.
 
Works well, and I'll continue to use it, but doesn't seem much cleaner than my Red Dot/Promo loads so far. At least judging by the brass. Maybe a touch less sooty but still kinda dirty.

I don't suppose any powder leaves brass really clean. though some factory loads I've shot looked like they just came out of the tumbler. Can't remember which.
 
Blue68f100 said:
If your looking for reduced loads that burn clean look no farther than WST. This will burn clean all the way down to 4.0gr using 185gr LSWC. With jacketed or plated your barrel friction will be higher and may not function at this extreme low powdered BE load. USE WITH CAUTION...
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I have reloaded several hundred of the 185 gr. HBRN using 5.1-5.2 gr. of WST at a COAL of 1.250". Good accurate target load with decent recoil. :)

I think the lowest I have gone is 4.7 gr., and still fairly clean casings.
 
Walkalong said:
I found WST to work well with the Berrys 185 Gr HBRN. I like WST, and its close cousin, Competition.
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I really like WST in 45 Auto. Have used it with plated and lead bullets. Though I was able to score a 4 lb. jug of it, WST seems to show up rarely.

Do you think Competition can fill that void for others that may not find WST? I see Competition in stock quite often. But I have never considered it for 45s.
 
doesn't seem much cleaner than my Red Dot/Promo loads so far
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Probably isn't. Red Dot burns nice and clean.

Do you think Competition can fill that void for others that may not find WST?
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In .38 Spl and .357 cases for light loads with lead or plated? Absolutely, enough so I bought a jug of it. I haven't tried it in .45 ACP but only because I have had plenty going on and lots of already loaded .45 ACP to shoot. Competition is very close to WST. When I was playing with my original one pounders of each my lot of Competition was about .1 Gr faster than WST. Other lots might vary. I tried WST in more apps than I did Competition. Good stuff either one with the edge to WST because I have tried it with success in more things. Competition hasn't failed for me in any app, it just hasn't been tried in as many. Pick up a pound and try it.
 
Shot some more WST 4.8 today and they still feel pretty light. Also noticed that recoil seems somewhat inconsistent from shot to shot. One will most feel noticeably lighter than the others. I seriously doubt my pro Autodisc has stopped throwing consistent charges. Since WST is very fine and my pro Autodisc has been very distant with even red dot. Could it be where the powder is in the case? I weigh a bunch in a row to make sure it's consistent and then I weigh maybe every 10 or 20th one. But I look in every case before I place a bullet and the level of powder is not noticeably different.
 
kcofohio said:
I have reloaded several hundred of the 185 gr. HBRN using 5.1-5.2 gr. of WST at a COAL of 1.250". Good accurate target load with decent recoil. :)

I think the lowest I have gone is 4.7 gr., and still fairly clean casings.
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If you don't mind me asking, where did you get this data? The only data I could find for WST and 185 was 4.8 Max. My testing shows that the still may be a little bit light but I don't have a chronograph. I would like to bump it up a little bit and try it but I don't want to blow myself up :)
 
Could it be where the powder is in the case?
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WST is one of the better ones as far as position sensitivity goes, but maybe. I am running 4.9 and it is very light.
 
1KPerDay said:
Is the HB making it behave like a lighter charge perhaps?
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With Berry's 9mm HB bullets, I found I didn't need to adjust powder charges compared to solid based bullets. But with 45ACP HB bullets and W231/HP38, since the hollow cavity is so large, using the same powder charge as solid based bullet resulted in light recoil and unburnt powder flakes from lower chamber pressures/inefficient powder burn. When I increased the powder charge above max load data, the unburnt powder flakes disappeared but light recoil still remained.

I think the large hollow cavity is acting like loading the bullet to really long OAL/COL with reduced chamber pressures.

Just FYI, while 1.260" OAL works for many pistols, I need to use 1.250" for my Sig 1911 with very short leade (almost none) for the ogive of the bullet nose to not hit the rifling.

attachment.php
 
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4.9 Grs WST - Berrys 185 Gr HBRN @ 1.260 to 1.265 OAL - WLP Primer - 1955 Target - Powder Back and Powder Forward @ 80 Degrees

......PB....PF
HI -843 -770
LO -803 -719
AVG -818 -747
ES -40 -51
SD -14 -20
 
I would use WST data and back off .1 to start. I don't know if there is any out there with this bullet though. RN data will be a tad too light as the HBRN has more "case" capacity. Empty space in case plus that in the bullet. As I stated somewhere, my first pound of Competition was .1 Gr faster than my first pound of WST. Those were the two I tested with a lot. I would expect Competition to closely mirror the data I just posted with WST. At that velocity I doubt it is over pressure, but I obviously can't say for sure.
 
I have that PDF now, have had it for awhile, but it wasn't out back when I worked up that load. Didn't think to look there earlier. It has lots of good stuff in it.
 
Easily.

If you want the most consistency the powder needs to be located the same for each shot. Much of the time that is powder back, but not always. The more empty space the worse it can be, but the powder choice also makes a difference. WST and Competition are pretty good PF, with little loss of velocity compared to the average, while SR4756 is terrible PF in a light load with lots of empty space. As in one test in .38 Spl where it put a 125 Gr bullet out at 900+ FPS PB and stuck the bullet PF. A 200 to 300 FPS loss PF is fairly common in light loads with a lot of empty space, which includes many .38 Spl loads.The lighter the load the tougher it is for it to be consistent as well, but that is more widely understood.

.45 ACP doesn't have a lot of empty space so PF numbers are usually decent.
 
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