Interesting Japanese WWII Training rifle

[Flyboy73]

I was at an auction and saw what they listed as a Japanese WWII training rifle. I ended up buying it for $140. I didn't; get a good chance to look it over real good before it came up, but thought it would be a good addition to my WWII collection.

It appears to a type 38 rifle. I did some research, but find nothing to quite match what i got. The rifle is smooth bored and there is no markings beside the serial number. There is no markings on the stock like the other training rifles i seen online.

The most interesting thing on the rifle is the bolt and receiver. As you can see the bolt lugs have been ground off and there is a metal lug attached at where the extractor should be. On the receiver where the bolt lugs should lock in, it has been filled in. The lever that holds the bolt in, does not work and bolt pull right out. It appears the lug put on the bolt body locks the bolt against the receiver. The safety doesn't work, but when you pull the trigger, it sill seems to fire.

Obviously you would not want to fire this gun. I read that the training guns used blanks.

If anyone has more information on the gun and the modification let me know.

See Pics

Brion

 

[snowpro440]

gun

looks similar to a 7.7 jap

 

[WardenWolf]

They frequently used decommissioned or downsized rifles as trainers. You probably got a school rifle.

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html

That site has an example of the school mark.

 

[Funderb]

weird. Be sure to post anything you find out.. if you find anything out.

 

[Flyboy73]

Its definitely a T38 receiver. It will not chamber a 7.7 Jap snap cap. I don't have any 6.5 Jap dummy rounds to try out in the gun.

There are no markings on the gun.

Where the mum would be there in evidence of it being ground, its smooth. So if the mum was ground, it was filled in.

Its a mystery.

Brion

 

[N.WoodsGuy]

Very interesting piece there............

I'm pretty sure it's a training gun of some kind......................<but that's only from what i know, not the absolute truth!)

I own a Arisaka Type 99.........with the "mum" ground down.
It shoots pretty good..................it was a hand me down from Pops...
It's in good shape too..........

Judging by the markings found on that link Mike the Wolf put up, mine is "Nagoya Arsenal"..............<Thanks for that Mike!!)

Wish i could be of more help!

 

[Scott W.]

Found this link some time back, try looking around It has Lots of Info this link is for the type 99 Just click on the home linkand they have an index for most other military arms on the left side of the page
http://www.surplusrifle.com/CDROM/index.asp

 

[rocky branch]

It's a T38 trainer.
Do not attempt to fire it, for god's sake.
Some of these were made from a combination of real parts and pot metal.
Mostly pot metal.
Lots of these made their way to the states as souveniers.
Helped to promote the "Jap crap" concept.
Some folks collect traines, but the value does not go much higher than what you paid.
There were even crude trainer bayonets for these.

 

[Slamfire]

It's a T38 trainer.
Do not attempt to fire it, for god's sake.
Some of these were made from a combination of real parts and pot metal.
Mostly pot metal.
Lots of these made their way to the states as souveniers.
Helped to promote the "Jap crap" concept.
Some folks collect traines, but the value does not go much higher than what you paid.

True.

I picked mine up at a Pawn Shop which sells at least 20 guns a day. They did not recognize it as a Japanese Training rifle. Only on close inspection did I figure it out. The smooth bore and the slight differences in construction between it and a M38 are evident only on close inspection.

My rifle looks to be very close to yours, mine was missing its floorplate. With a little grinding a M38 floorplate and follower fit.

These trainers are not M38 seconds. My receiver is cast iron. It was never intended to fire real rounds. Instead the Japanese equivalent of ROTC got to play with wooden rounds, or rounds that had wooden bullets. They were never issued service rifle ammo as that will blow the trainer up.

Japanese knew what these things were. But not GI's. So many GI's stuffed real ammo in the things that all Japanese rifles got the reputation of being junk. The WWII generation all heard of "cast iron Japanese rifles", it fit within their ideas of the Japanese being suicidal fanatics and overall, they thought very little of the Japanese and their rifles. My Dad and his generation avoided Japanese products, and referred to the Japanese using language that is not allowed on High Road.

I remember minty M38's and M99's for $70.00 in the 70's. I was working minimum wage; I did not have two twenty dollar bills to rub together. Real Japanese rifles are well designed and well made weapons, until you get to the last ditch rifles. Wish I had one of those. They were cheap back then. Less than $50.00.