Iraq Ambush details released (this ain't good)

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LaEscopeta

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na...,5467147.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

Ambush details released
5 U.S. troops killed in precise attack in south Iraq last week

By Borzou Daragahi
Originally published January 27, 2007

Baghdad, Iraq // Four of the five U.S. soldiers killed in a sophisticated attack in southern Iraq last week were shot after they were captured, handcuffed and driven miles away by gunmen who appeared to have detailed information about their target, U.S. and Iraqi officials said yesterday.
"The attackers went straight to where the Americans were located in the provincial government facility, bypassing the Iraqi police in the compound," Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Baghdad, said in a statement. "We are looking at all the evidence to determine who or what was responsible for the breakdown in security at the compound and the perpetration of the assault."

The U.S. military announced last week that five soldiers in Karbala died fending off the Jan. 20 attack on a provincial security building, but details of what happened were not released.

However, hours after an Associated Press report referred to unnamed U.S. and Iraqi sources in recounting the attack and killings, the military yesterday issued a detailed statement on the incident that said the four soldiers were found dead or dying near abandoned vehicles in a neighboring province south of Baghdad.

The account of the attack provided by the military suggests a major breakdown of security in the relatively safe southern province as well as increased skillfulness and capacity on the part of armed groups.

"The precision of the attack, the equipment used and the possible use of explosives to destroy the military vehicles in the compound suggests that the attack was well-rehearsed prior to execution," Bleichwehl said.

U.S. soldiers and their Iraqi counterparts were at a provincial security headquarters discussing safety for pilgrims participating in an annual religious ceremony when the gunmen - dressed in U.S. Army-style combat uniforms and driving at least five sport-utility vehicles - made their way past checkpoints and stormed the building at around 5 p.m.

"The armed militants wore American-looking uniforms and carried U.S.-type weapons convincing Iraqi checkpoints to allow their passage," the statement said.

Once they were inside the compound, the fighting broke out between the gunmen, estimated at no more than a dozen, and U.S. soldiers. Small-arms fire erupted and grenades exploded. One soldier was killed and three wounded by a hand grenade thrown into the compound's main office.

"The Iraqis in the meeting were not harmed or even touched," said an Iraqi military official.

Explosions damaged several U.S. military Humvees, disabling the vehicles and forcing the soldiers to take cover. The attackers pulled back, the statement said, taking four U.S. soldiers with them.

According to U.S. and Iraqi officials, the gunmen drove the captured soldiers from Karbala dozens of miles to Babel province, confidently whizzing past at least one checkpoint.

"The vehicles did not stop at checkpoints, they drove right through them," said an Iraqi military officer, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The military said suspicious Iraqi police officers pursued them. Iraqi security officials said American and local forces encircled the area. The Iraqi police eventually found the captured U.S. soldiers, five abandoned SUVs, U.S. Army uniforms, boots, radios and sophisticated machine-guns near the Sunni towns of Mahawil and Albu Alwan in northern Babel province.

"Two soldiers were found handcuffed together in the back of one of the SUVs," the U.S. military statement said. "Both ... were dead. A third soldier was found shot and dead on the ground. Nearby, the fourth soldier was still alive, despite a gunshot wound to the head." The soldier died as Iraqi police rushed him to a nearby hospital.

Borzou Daragahi writes for the Los Angeles Times.
 
"Major combat operations have completed"

"Last throes."

"Turned the corner."


Yeah. Country the size of California, and literally EVERYONE is trying to kill Americans, now, it seems.

What were those goals, again? And a bunch of our guys with rifles and humvees are supposed to do...what?

Oh, right. Get blown up by the same bombs every day and shot by the same people every day. Right.

Stay that course!
 
Geneva Convention

As the enemy executes American troops after capture, there are those who whine about violations of the Geneva Convention by U.S. personnel. Afterall, it isn't nice to place female underwear over detainee heads or use a barking
dog to intimidate them. Give me a break!
 
It's only going to get worse.

Our guys are very outnumbered.

If things get really serious over there, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that every soldier on the ground could be killed by opposition forces.

Yes, the USAF would probably level a couple cities in retaliation, but there would still be a whole bunch of dead Americans.

Why is this our fight again?
 
If things get really serious over there, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that every soldier on the ground could be killed by opposition forces.

There's already been serious consideration that the insurgents have enough in number to storm the Green Zone, should they choose to. And if they did, we'd see this, all over again:

saigon_helicopter200.jpg
 
Yeah. Country the size of California, and literally EVERYONE is trying to kill Americans, now, it seems.
Um...you couldn't be more wrong Manedwolf...unless 5 SUV's worth can account for an entire population. If even the slim-est majority (or even a sizeable minority) of Iraqi's were against the effort (and their own govt. and their own future) we would have way, way, way more casualties than a few thousand spread out over a few years.

Don't listen to me though...I was just one of the "stupid" guys who ended up there.

The terrorists are getting more sophisticated...the Iraqi police need to step up more in terms of training and procedures. I would prefer not to bail out on our new allies in Iraq leaving them to a horrid civil war (I'd bet on the brutal Sunni and terrorists to eventually win) and showing the world we are gutless when things get tough after we started it. "Sorry, we reached our limit, nevermind you trusted us and your civilians are dying about 100/1 to our casualties..."

But hey, if we leave; Russia, France and Germany will respect us again! (Actually they wouldn't. Nobody respects or trusts quitters...)

LaEscopeta-A big thank you for posting this, I'll spread this story and these tactics around here in this theatre so we can be ready for similar attempts.
 
If things get really serious over there, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that every soldier on the ground could be killed by opposition forces.
Riiight....armies have "every soldier killed" quite often.:uhoh: Our casualty rates in 'Nam were far, far higher and we certainly never came close to having every soldier killed. Not even 10%.

I'd love to see a mass attack on the Green Zone, insurgents die real easy in big groups...every single time. Strength on strength does not work for the little guy, didn't even work for the NVA...the one time they really tried it. (see "We Were Soldiers" book or movie, it wasn't pretty, but still a big loss for them).

We didn't "lose" Vietnam either, we eventually just quit...totally different situation though, culturally, politically and militarily...we didn't choose to start that one either. Just chose to jump in.

Our guys are very outnumbered.
Based on what intel...seen some official strength estimates? Think there are over 120,000+ terrorists in Iraq? Open ended question, I sure don't or there would be a lot more trouble than we have now.

Defeatism is good fun though...in 20 years we'll cry "quit" over 100 casualties, then 10, then we'll be France.
 
>I think its time to turn them into a glass parking lot.


Ahh the glass parking lot argument... someone please close this thread before it gets any more retarded-er

atek3
 
I have worked in that region for many years, anyone who fights these people on a humanitarian level is just begging to lose. Our political system doesn't allow us to fight as we need to be doing, therefore the alternative is to pack and leave. I couldn't give a rats @$$ if the result is a bloodbath, pull the troops to the water to guard the refineries and be supported by carrier power and this will be over in 6 months to a year with few to none US casualties. After the bloodbath is over, send those troops (who have been BBQing in the refinery DMZ) back to re-establish order in Bagdad. The alternative is cut & run, or send 1,000,000 troops as you know Iran is already involved.
 
The only way that I see us from preventing a full scale Civil war in Iraq, is if we Partition the country. Put the Kurds in the North, The Sunni in the middle, and the Shia in the South. We would patrol the borders and try to mantain the peace.
The way that it is going now, it is only a matter of time before the Iranain's start sending in troops to support the Shia milita's, and the Saudi's start funding the Sunni Insurgents, thus starting at best a proxy war, and at worst a regional war.
 
Texas, I like the partitioning idea in theory, but in practice, no group will be satisfied with the oil distribution and the result will be a never ending war between the kurds, sunni, and shiite.

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is, but I know it doesn't involve "staying the course" or "seeing this thing through" (buzzwords for commiting to the same failed policy of shoving more meat into the grinder).

Honestly what are we spending on the iraq war per day? like 300 million roughly?

Here's my idea, pull out tomorrow, apologize to iraq, and give the UN 50 million per day and say "good luck".

I submit that due to the polarizing aspect of the US presence in Iraq, the UN stands a better chance of promoting peace.

atek3
 
All that the UN is good for is standing by and looking pretty while watching different factions slaughter each other.
 
I opposed this war since before it began, and this is why. Our soldiers lives are not worth allowing the likes of Haliburton to keep our dependence on foreign oil going, and to inflate the wallets of a bunch of war mongers.

Oh well I guess. Whining on the internet and writing and calling politicians is about as effective as a band aid on a 7" chest gash.
 
I have worked in that region for many years, anyone who fights these people on a humanitarian level is just begging to lose. Our political system doesn't allow us to fight as we need to be doing, therefore the alternative is to pack and leave.
Very true. Israel made a successful little nation in the middle of all of them and they only succeeded with tactics that we can never employ. You have multiple factions and the only thing they all agree on is that Western Culture is more thier enemy than eachother.
Though this is a great opportunity for the CIA to create balanced competing forces and tie up the Middle East with fighting themselves and going into debt to western banks to fund it. Then they will owe us more than they have and we can use that debt to take thier resources for less than thier market value. You don't conquer in the modern age with soldiers, that creates open opposition, you conquer with debt, then exploit those in debt. Soldiers only come into play in defense against those in debt if they decide to attack, at which point they will never lose public support for self defense. Bush was a fool for not playing the game this way, as we do many other places, from the start.

At the ground level this should show soldiers to never be taken alive, you will usualy just die later and have no option of resistance at that point. Better to die an hour earlier and take some of your attackers with you.
 
These things happen in war. Chaulk one up to the terrorists. Now we need to give it back to them 10-fold.

Politically US soldiers are supposed to be above this kind of behavior. If some of our soldiers did this, they would be court martialed and probably executed.

I do believe in giving the enemy what they give us. From my way of thinking, just don't tactically fight in a manner that forces the taking of prisoners.
 
That level of professionalism (level of mastery of English language, uniforms, weapons), does it imply Iranian special forces or The Base?

Sounds to me like they got sold out by someone who was supposed to be their ally. At least that would account for the US guns/uniforms and the fact that they waltzed past the Iraqi security people, none of whom were harmed in the firefight.

As for The Base, I think The Base pretty much consists of anyone who takes up arms and fights for Wahabi/Sunni style Islam against the western/globalization culture. It's more a "movement" than an organization per se. They don't have dues and membership cards and a president like the NRA has.
 
It's nice to have "allies" like that, isn't it? They give information to the insurgents and step aside to let them pass. And these are the two-faced jerks our illustrious leader is banking on.

This whole nation building thing is a load of hogwash and always has been. There is no nation there. It's just a bunch of frothing madmen who as eager to slaughter each other as they are to attack us.
 
That's absurd. For one thing, they make more than any insurgent is going to be able to pay them. For another, many of them are retired members of our own military.
 
pcosmar said:
I would look at some of the "mercs" that are there. Maybe someone made them a better offer.
I was about to get irate at that suggestion, then realised that I can only speak for myself.

Money's not the only reason we're there, but it's a lot more complex than just saying "It's payback for 9/11". With most of us being ex-military, it's a good way for us to be back in the saddle again and performing military-style ops with a bit more freedom than we had in the regular military. Note that I don't say "undisciplined" - we're actually highly self-disciplined, and those who aren't are quickly shown the door, sometimes brutally. Remind me to tell you sometime about the drunk operator in Baghdad...

No, I'm afraid that the most likely answer is a combination of good observation-skills, a turned/converted/threatened Iraqi guard to pass along some info and a sole reliance on the aforementioned Iraqi guards at 3 different sets of gates. Add the typical Iraqi fatalistic attitude ("Insh'allah" - If God wills it) towards performing their duties to the best of their abilities and you have a hole a bus could drive through.
 
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