Is .44Mag a practical self defence caliber?

[JImbothefiveth]

you might as well switch over to 45 Colt.

Actually, like the .44 magnum, the .45 long colt has mediocore stopping power on humans.

 

[Youngster]

I think a .44 would work well enough if loaded with lighter but still Magnum level loads like the 165 gr Corbon or the 210 gr Winchester Silvertip, I wouldn't trust most Special loads to expand reliably and regular strength .44 Magnum loads on up are just too much.

 

[Harley Quinn]

You will be surprised how the slower bigger bullet does on a human. They are hard hitters as a rule. I would not use the 44 Mag as a primary SD firearm. It fails to provide what I want in a SD firearm in to many areas.

I have a friend who carries the 44 spcl in a leg holster rather than the smaller ones, his feeling, it is really a great second piece (backup- BUG)

 

[Sam1911]

Actually, like the .44 magnum, the .45 long colt has mediocore stopping power on humans.

And yet, "stopping power" is a myth. The only realities are penetration and expansion.

Once a bullet of a specific construction and weight leaves a gun at a set velocity, it pretty much "forgets" what cartridge it was fired from.

You can build .45 Long Colts that are poor "man stoppers" because they use bullets that are not optimized for the velocity at which they will hit the target. Or you can build a .380 or 9mm that is a "great" "man stopper" because the bullet and powder charge used balance the velocity vs. expansion equation well and the bullet works like it should.

A very heavily constructed JHP might not expand at all at normal service round velocities and so behaves more like a FMJ, needling on through. A bare lead bullet might not hold together at higher velocities, thus blowing up without penetrating far enough (or breaking into several pieces each of which creates a wound channel -- which might work well). When these things are balanced correctly the bullet will expand to its maximum without breaking apart so it retains enough weight to penetrate.

All things being equalized (meaning that each bullet is being driven to the velocity at which it works as intended) a bigger bullet going faster is going to do the job more effectively than a smaller bullet going slower. So, a .45 Colt optimized for self-defense, will make a more effective round than a .357 Mag. optimized for self-defense. The .45 Colt has the misfortune that the vast majority of ammo available is low-powered, round-nosed stuff that won't perform well (or as well as the cartridge COULD anyway) on any living target. The .357 has the benefit of being pretty well engineered on the "man stopping" front for decades now and there are lots of effective loads available for it.

To boil it down further, a cartridge that causes a bullet to expands to 1" diameter and penetrate 20" is a better performer than one that causes a bullet to expand to 0.5" and penetrate 20" (or 10", of course). So for a comparison like this to be meaningful at all, much more information must be nailed down about the rounds being compared.

It would be interesting to do some very controlled experiments comparing the very best built (optimized might be the right word) defensive ammunition available for each of the popular cartridges.

Hmmm...we're gonna need a lot of goats.



-Sam

 

[Harley Quinn]

The big hard hitting 45-70 is a man stopper and so are the 44 or 45 as a mag. type round, just not good self defense IMHO. No quick second or third shot, etc. But if I had it I'd use it.

The idea of a small fast 9 at .355 expanding much more than, the same diameter as the 44 or 45, starts out as, does not happen much, to be honest.

Why so many like the bigger slower bullet of 45 or 44 Some where in the 800 fps range...

 

[Highland Ranger]

But the ones with 3" barrels make such a nice flame!

That's a pic of a special edition Lew Horton 3" S&W 329pd - - turned out they had problems with the frame so the modified version they replaced it with is no longer black. Now a stainless frame, titanium cylinder and barrel . . . supposed to be a "carry weapon". When it was all lightweight metals it was a handful to shoot - better now with the stainless frame. Would not want to shoot it without hearing protection . . . . .

Pros:
- scary big & loud revolver
- enough gun: good for anything that walks
- enough punch to shoot through things
- accurate if you're not a flincher
- can use to light cigars

Cons
- fairly heavy for daily carry with the stainless frame
- danger of over penetration in anything but black bear
- only six shots
- w/o hearing protection you'd do damage
- inaccurate if you flinch/don't enjoy a big bang

Although it is a beautiful artifact, if I'm not in bear country hard to choose this over my USP40, USP45 or XD45 . . . .

 

[heavyshooter]

Effective? Yes. Practical? No. You will definitely kill your assailant. In fact you will overkill him (I know many of my THR brethren will find the word "overkill" ridiculous ). Unless your assailant is 350-400 pounds and has the fur and musculature of a black bear, you don't need a 44 Mag. When you add to that the deafening, blinding explosion that will come from the weapon, I would argue that it would be a poor choice. A .38 Special +P is about all you will really need (maybe .357 Mag. 125 gr.). Anything above that would be, well, overkill. But that's just my $.02

 

[jonsidneyb]

How many of you have tried to carry an N-Frame?

While it would not be my first choice a 4 inch N-Frame in not that hard to carry and conceal on the belt. A 6-inch gun well that can go shoulder holster.

N-Frame guns can be effectively concealed and carried. Yes it is a little heavy.

Us old timers used to carry K, N, Framed Smiths and Colts all the time back when the only popular Auto in the States was a 1911.

 

[Commander Crusty]

As a fantasy gun, a 3" snubby .44 magnum is perfect--especially since you never have to fire it in the real world! So, if you are a rogue cop who lives above the law and has an unlimited access to pain killing drugs, I say GO FOR IT!

On the other hand, with Winchester .44 Special Silvertips, a nice shoulder holster plus the right build and wardrobe, a reasonable person could certainly make a large frame revolver work. The intimidation factor is high. Practice would be tolerable. Danger to people behind the target would be reduced. You might find you shoot a .44 revolver better than a .45 automatic--some people do.

 

[Sam1911]

Winchester .44 Special Silvertips

(Yeah, yeah...I'm copying this from the current .44 Special as CCW thread.)

I bought those -- at over $1 PER SHOT -- from a local shop when I got my 4" 629 and started to carry it.

When, several months later, I took the time to chrono the loading I nearly fell over. Those super-duper man-stoppers were only doing 725-750 fps out of my gun! The .45ACP 230 gr. JHPs I was used to carrying were 200 fps faster with a heavier bullet!

I was thoroughly disgusted. Great, I've got a heavier gun that's slower to reload and only holds six, but at least the rounds are WAAAAY *LESS* powerful than those in my 8+1 1911!

I now only carry some of my own making that do considerably better than that, but I'm still quite annoyed at what a rip-off I bought into with the Win. factory loads.

a nice shoulder holster plus the right build and wardrobe, a reasonable person could certainly make a large frame revolver work.

Ugh. I wouldn't want a shoulder holster for it! I get along pretty well with an IWB at 4:30 on my belt, and LOVE it in an OWB type rig.

Why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

Oh, and a 3" .44 mag is a "fantasy gun" but a 4" one is practical? Not sure I buy that.
-Sam

 

[batmann]

I guess I'm a minority here, I have a Ruger Alaskan loaded with 165grn Cor Bon's as my primary home SD gun. For the record, I use the .44spl 165gr HP in the summer and use the mag version 165gr in the, brrrrrrr, winter.

 

[Jim K]

If you are going to bring along a .44 Magnum, why not go whole hog and use a 155mm howitzer. That way you have the option of running over the BG with the tow tractor.

Jim

 

[ir3e971]

^^^

That is funny, right there.

I used a 629 as a house gun for years. However it was the only option I had. My dad (many moons ago) used a Ruger Blackhawk for the house gun.

 

[fase3]

Like I've said on other posts I live in the country. I do own 9mm-45ACP-380's etc and have been known to carry them in the urban areas. When home it will be one of the following: all OM 3 screw Rugers .357-41mag-44mag(Super Blackhawk cut to 4 5/8")-45 Colt. Nearest family is over 1/2mile away so I'm not worried about the loads I use.

 

[dmazur]

Nearest family is over 1/2mile away so I'm not worried about the loads I use.

Well, it's better than having them in a housing development, I suppose. However, unless it's 1/2 mile of timber, bullets can travel 1/2 mile easily.

I know it's hard to do (and I don't have any personal experience), but I would still be worried about shooting toward the neighbors if there was any chance to shoot in a different direction.

Kind of like the pilot with the disabled jet at an air show that tries to get it away from the stands before ejecting...

 

[Andy-Y]

Wow, you guys blew my mind . I carry an auto now (G17, yeah I know), but have been lusting over wheelguns as a carry option for a bit now. I was thinking something in .44 magnum, like a ruger alaskan . But from what you guys say, maybe this is a bad idea?

Concealment isn't a problem for me, and people wear a lot of clothes in the winter around here. I don't mind my 9mm for summer, but wanted something with more BANG for winter. But, still a bad idea, huh?

 

[FoMoGo]

People are constantly bringing up over penetration.
Look at the stats in gun fights, how many shots fired vs number of hits.
A miss is the ultimate in over penetration, shoot what you can hit with.
A good SD round in a .44 mag IS a fight stopper, so is a good .44 spl round... and its a quicker follow up shot.


Jim

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The only realities are penetration and expansion.

No the only reality is bullet placement (and possibly penetration). Expansion reduces penetration.

they can make a 3 inch s&w 629, why not a sub compact or service XD, or SIG?

Yes, that is a REVOLVER. A compact auto pistol would not be possible or practical for the reasons noted above and also because the .44 mag is a rimmed case. Apart from the Coonan and Desert Eagle, both overly large guns, you won't find reliable handguns (some may even say those aren't reliable) that will cycle rimmed cases.
Now there are the 1911s and S&W 52 chambered for .38 Spl Wadcutter, but the wadcutter is a very low pressure round (unlike the .44 Mag) and you are limited to a particular bullet type. Since a 3" M29 is more compact and lighter than the autoloaders in the same caliber, not to mention less expensive, do you see why no one is making one now?

Actually, like the .44 magnum, the .45 long colt has mediocore stopping power on humans.

If the .44 and .45 are lacking in stopping power, it is only because the shooters are using too much gun and not hitting their targets. .44 and .45 are perfectly capable of delivering more than adequate "stopping power" if used properly, just like almost anything else.
Would you rather be hit by a Louisville slugger being swung fast or a 10 pound sledge hammer swung not quite as fast? Either one is going to work. The sledge will be harder to swing and get on target quickly and repeatedly, though with the sledge you may not need "repeatedly".

 

[CSA 357]

I carry my 4 inch 629 in the winter when i am wearing a coat, and the bad guy is wearing a coat too,i shoot my 629 pretty good and have faith in it, carry what works for you! In the summer i might be found with a 38 spec, but i can hit with it too! All this whats best cal for cc realy has no answer, it is all about you, and what you can do best with, hits are what count,if its with a 22 or a 44 mag , as i have said in the past if i knew there would be trouble on any given day i would carry a shot gun or a ar15, any way... i think the 44 mag can be a great self defence gun if you put in the time to be good with it, i cant be the only one that thinks like this?

 

[Highland Ranger]

(using all caps on the internet means you are yelling - are you yelling?)

 

[JaxNovice]

Nice Post Sam1911. It is that kind of post that made me join THR to begin with.

 

[ggarfield965]

I carry a swiss army knife for self defense. It has served me well thus far. It won't accidentally kill your neighbor's kid playing on the other side of a brick wall. But honestly, who are we defending ourselves from? Most robbers or muggers will book it if they see a gun anyways, so wouldn't a .22 pistol be about as good? Besides, a DA will look much more favorably on someone that shot a mugger in the leg with a .22 pistol and then called the cops then someone who blasted said muggers leg off and then watched them bleed to death while they called the cops.

 

[HoosierQ]

In the Alaska bush...you betcha!

Out on a farm...why not.

In a house in town or the 'burbs...no so much to probably not.

In a multi-family dwelling in a crowded urban area...forget about it.

 

[FoMoGo]

I carry a swiss army knife for self defense. It has served me well thus far. It won't accidentally kill your neighbor's kid playing on the other side of a brick wall. But honestly, who are we defending ourselves from? Most robbers or muggers will book it if they see a gun anyways, so wouldn't a .22 pistol be about as good? Besides, a DA will look much more favorably on someone that shot a mugger in the leg with a .22 pistol and then called the cops then someone who blasted said muggers leg off and then watched them bleed to death while they called the cops.

I was shot at a distance of 4 foot with a .25, I took that pistol away from him.
If I need to shoot someone, I dont want him to have the option of continuing his goal of getting to me or my family.
You do not shoot to wound. If you have to shoot someone you shoot center of body mass. Not only for the stopping power, but because there is less chance of missing.
I am always going to assume that if a person has the balls to break into my house... then they have the balls to do harm to any and everyone in it.
I will do my best to be sure they dont have that chance.


Jim

 

[james rogers]

I was keeping my Interarms Virginian Dragoon loaded by my bed. I had 44 specials in it. Recoil is no problem with that pistol with .44 sp.

Recently I replaced it as my bedside companion with a 9mm SW. Very real concerns with where my bullets could wind up made me do it.

There is something about a really big revolver. You can see the bullets in the cyl if its being pointed at you and they look impressive and scary.

An intruder might even realize they don't want to get shot by my great big pistol before I have to squeeze the trigger.