Is a .38 snubby enough?
- Thread starter megatronrules
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"There is simply a higher hit rate, a shorter training curve and more effective calibers available in a modern, compact semi auto like a G19."
Or my Colt Combat Commander. Both need to ride under concealment, though, which is not an option in the hottest summer weather where I live.
"The snubby excells in tight spots where concealment limits the availablity of the more modern gun. Low ammo capacity, slow reloads, and limited power are all easier to deal with than the low hit rate."
Hi-cap nines have proven to have low hit rates too, albeit with more shots on board you are more likely to get at least one or two to the target. Some old Marshall and Sanow stats -- FWIW -- show historically that police have scored the highest hit rates with duty-size .357 Magnum revolvers.
In the summer, I'll take the snubby in my pocket with a quick, easy draw and point shooting -- with all the attendant slow relaod and hit-miss probabilities -- vs. the Colt or Glock which will be much slower to draw and, most likely, at home in the safe. YMMV.
Or my Colt Combat Commander. Both need to ride under concealment, though, which is not an option in the hottest summer weather where I live.
"The snubby excells in tight spots where concealment limits the availablity of the more modern gun. Low ammo capacity, slow reloads, and limited power are all easier to deal with than the low hit rate."
Hi-cap nines have proven to have low hit rates too, albeit with more shots on board you are more likely to get at least one or two to the target. Some old Marshall and Sanow stats -- FWIW -- show historically that police have scored the highest hit rates with duty-size .357 Magnum revolvers.
In the summer, I'll take the snubby in my pocket with a quick, easy draw and point shooting -- with all the attendant slow relaod and hit-miss probabilities -- vs. the Colt or Glock which will be much slower to draw and, most likely, at home in the safe. YMMV.
Richard.Howe
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+1
And a .22 in the hand beats a .38 in the safe. No sarcasm implied.
But why voluntarily carry a .22 when your .38 snub is the same size? And why lug a .38 when a .357 can be had in precisely the same platform?
Many folks want to know just how small they can go before they reach the point of inadequacy.
When it's my family's life involved, that's not an academic question I'm interested in!
Preacherman
Member
I'm comfortable with my accuracy with a .38 snub, and carry one regularly. However, the ammo capacity is a limitation, and whilst it's not likely to be a problem in some areas, it may well be in others, where gang activity may be expected. For this reason, my .38 is usually carried as a backup to something that hits harder and has more ammo. If I'm going to a friend's house, in a decent suburb, and not going into or through any high-crime area, I often just carry the snub, and feel comfortable enough doing it. However, if I'm downtown, or at the mall (which is a hangout for muggers in the parking lot in my town), I want a bit more firepower on hand, and would not feel comfortable relying only on the snub.
orangeninja
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I agree with Preacherman, my snubs are magnums, but they are primarily relegated to duty as a backup to my .40 Sig or Glock 19...However for occasions where I am going to a family members house or just to the corner store, I have no qualms with a snub. I dress to the occasion.
As for gang town....might I recommend a 12ga. or carbine?
As for gang town....might I recommend a 12ga. or carbine?
Jim March
Member
Yes, if you have one of the loads that works in them. The 158+P LSWC-HP is one, if made by anybody but Federal. The Fed is too wimpy. The Winchester is OK, the Remmie is preferred, and the Buffalo Bore or old-stock Cor-Bon are wild-child hot for stronger 38 guns only - DO NOT use them in Charter Arms, Colt Detective Special or (in my opinion) any aluminum alloy snubby.
The Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P is another great round. The Winchester 130grain Supreme 38+P ain't half bad either, about as good as the better 125gr Gold Dot-based loadings with the larger JHP cavity (Black Hills Ammo, Georgia Arms, Proload, some others).
Those are the rounds I'd trust my life to in a 38 snubbie, with Remmie 158s and God Dot 135s at the top of the list.
Edited to add: Cor-Bon's 110gr +P is also a good load. Oh, and Buffalo Bore also loads the Gold Dot 125gr. These are for stronger guns only - I won't use them in my classic late-'70s Charter Arms fr'instance.
The Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P is another great round. The Winchester 130grain Supreme 38+P ain't half bad either, about as good as the better 125gr Gold Dot-based loadings with the larger JHP cavity (Black Hills Ammo, Georgia Arms, Proload, some others).
Those are the rounds I'd trust my life to in a 38 snubbie, with Remmie 158s and God Dot 135s at the top of the list.
Edited to add: Cor-Bon's 110gr +P is also a good load. Oh, and Buffalo Bore also loads the Gold Dot 125gr. These are for stronger guns only - I won't use them in my classic late-'70s Charter Arms fr'instance.
Show me an ultralight (alloy, scandium?) snubby chambered in 357. They exist for 38 and fit a nice compromise of capacity, power, penetration, and weight (small, lighter pistols have many more concealment options). Anything in the SP101 class isn't even close; use an alloy J-frame S&W as an upper weight limit. Those can be concealed effectively wearing just a pair of shorts; anything heavier will print.
orangeninja
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I have pretty good luck with a steel J frame, it doesn't print and only weighs about 24 ounces, about the same as a Glock 26 with rounds...but then I don't wear tight clothing.
No Daisey Dukes for Alduro......................no matter who asks.
No Daisey Dukes for Alduro......................no matter who asks.
JMusic
member
Biker what make snubby do you have or are you talking about a deringer?
Hey Jim...
I carry a Taurus 450 (45LC) Titanium. Five round capacity, 2" ported barrel at about 17oz. It's pretty easy to shoot and packs well. Occasionally I supplement that with a 38 snubby or an AMT 380 backup.
I do want that Bond Arms derringer in 45LC as a BUG to my Taurus.
Biker
I carry a Taurus 450 (45LC) Titanium. Five round capacity, 2" ported barrel at about 17oz. It's pretty easy to shoot and packs well. Occasionally I supplement that with a 38 snubby or an AMT 380 backup.
I do want that Bond Arms derringer in 45LC as a BUG to my Taurus.
Biker
Davo
Member
Practice often, shoot often, make handling it second nature...and you will be fine. Note that this applies to all calibers.
gunsmith
member
snubby fine rifle better
I routinely carry a ruger sp 101 in .357, I can also put .38's in there.
I also have a marlin lever that shoots both as well.
the first rule of a gun fight is (everybody)bring a gun
the 2nd rule is (everybody)bring a rifle
I routinely carry a ruger sp 101 in .357, I can also put .38's in there.
I also have a marlin lever that shoots both as well.
the first rule of a gun fight is (everybody)bring a gun
the 2nd rule is (everybody)bring a rifle
38 snubby
There are too many senarios.
Alot of guys put big guns on there side and thing it solves everything.Alot of bad guys are street trained to notice these bulges. Believe me! ....If they walk up and ask for a match, are you going to shoot them? Well once they are within arms length the gun may very well be theirs. I know a guy who doesn't own any guns. He says if he needs a gun he will get one. I know him well and believe him.
I would pick a snubby in a jacket with my hand already on it then anything on my hip. In the winter i carry an smith air wieght and now an air light. and in the summer a black widow 22 mag. I'd rather be dead then uncomfortable.
I know everyone bad mouths 22s. I would not want to be hit with a 22 mag.
There are too many senarios.
Alot of guys put big guns on there side and thing it solves everything.Alot of bad guys are street trained to notice these bulges. Believe me! ....If they walk up and ask for a match, are you going to shoot them? Well once they are within arms length the gun may very well be theirs. I know a guy who doesn't own any guns. He says if he needs a gun he will get one. I know him well and believe him.
I would pick a snubby in a jacket with my hand already on it then anything on my hip. In the winter i carry an smith air wieght and now an air light. and in the summer a black widow 22 mag. I'd rather be dead then uncomfortable.
I know everyone bad mouths 22s. I would not want to be hit with a 22 mag.
Hemicuda
member
i carry a5 shot Smith "ladysmith" or a 5 shot 637 quite often... with a reload on a Bianchi Speed-Strip... and never feel "undergunned"...
Chipp: .22's can be quite lethal. Often the bullet doesn't have enough energy to exit, instead expending its energy tumbling around inside the target.
Gunsmith: What ammo do you use? Do you use the same ammo in the revolver and carbine? I have read some stuff that says there is no ideal particular .357 or .38 cartridge that is best in both length tubes. IIRC, I read that 110 gr too light for carbine and 158 gr too heavy for revolver. Issues of over/under penetration and over/under expansion, even disintegration.
Based on that I'm figuring on using Remington 357B (JHP Hi Shok) for both, although initial loading of short barrel Speer GDHP may be used for snubby smith. But I figure 125 gr Hi Shoks in both should do nicely. I'm currently looking to buy first .357/.38 carbine--Marlin 1894C.
Do you have any target experience or thoughts with common loads from both?
Hemicuda: Here, here to 5 rounds of .357 or .38 +P from a snubby smith!!!!! With a handy reload I wouldn't feel undergunned in day to day civilian activities either.
Gunsmith: What ammo do you use? Do you use the same ammo in the revolver and carbine? I have read some stuff that says there is no ideal particular .357 or .38 cartridge that is best in both length tubes. IIRC, I read that 110 gr too light for carbine and 158 gr too heavy for revolver. Issues of over/under penetration and over/under expansion, even disintegration.
Based on that I'm figuring on using Remington 357B (JHP Hi Shok) for both, although initial loading of short barrel Speer GDHP may be used for snubby smith. But I figure 125 gr Hi Shoks in both should do nicely. I'm currently looking to buy first .357/.38 carbine--Marlin 1894C.
Do you have any target experience or thoughts with common loads from both?
Hemicuda: Here, here to 5 rounds of .357 or .38 +P from a snubby smith!!!!! With a handy reload I wouldn't feel undergunned in day to day civilian activities either.
Less flash, bang, and recoil for quicker follow up shots? Biggest isn't always better especially with small and light weight guns.
I'm torn on the snub. I think 158gr lswchp is a good round and can definately do the job. Its not usually in a gun people are the most accurate with. If you're shooting at a moving target, or have multiple targets (do bad guys work alone?), it seems to me like 5 rounds isn't much and perhaps 8 rounds in a smaller caliber like .380 might give you more flexibility. I've still never seen good numbers that make me go one way over the other. Until I decide though I am quite fond of my 642. Its not about emptying an entire magazine into a guy, its just that statistics also show that most shots fired in self defense are misses, at least going off LEO numbers. I'm a pessimist a 20-40% hit rate is the most I'd expect from most self defense shootings. Maybe I'm way off...
remember, are you using your gun for offense or defense?
38 snubby is PERFECT for defense, as some have said most gunfights are 2 shot, close counter in low light.
if you're looking for an offensive gun, then get a HK SOCOM or something..
but i'm pretty sure all you're trying to do is defense, scare and take care of the threat quickly so you can call the police and get the hell out... not load in another 13 rnd .45 clip to go after their buddies that messed with u.
38 snubby is PERFECT for defense, as some have said most gunfights are 2 shot, close counter in low light.
if you're looking for an offensive gun, then get a HK SOCOM or something..
but i'm pretty sure all you're trying to do is defense, scare and take care of the threat quickly so you can call the police and get the hell out... not load in another 13 rnd .45 clip to go after their buddies that messed with u.
Yes, a .38 snubbie is enough.
I carry a 340pd (11-oz scandium .357 j-frame) with corbon .38's. Its only five shots, but it slips in my front pocket real easy and never gets in the way. Perfect gun for a day at the park with the kids. You can ignore it all day, unless some pit-bull or thug demands you use it.
If you are a LEO, then use it for a back-up gun, and carry a Glock/SIG or whatever as your primary.
-David
I carry a 340pd (11-oz scandium .357 j-frame) with corbon .38's. Its only five shots, but it slips in my front pocket real easy and never gets in the way. Perfect gun for a day at the park with the kids. You can ignore it all day, unless some pit-bull or thug demands you use it.
If you are a LEO, then use it for a back-up gun, and carry a Glock/SIG or whatever as your primary.
-David
I think it is certainly enough. Not optimum for a handgun, but as all handguns are; a compromize in portability.
The smaller the handgun, the heavier the bullets I prefer. With some exceptions I prefer the 158 grain loads like the classic "FBI load" lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint - or the solid lead flatnose "cowboy load" from various makers. I would even prfer the 148 grain lead wadcutter "target" load to the fashionable light jacketed hollowpoint loads that abound.
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The smaller the handgun, the heavier the bullets I prefer. With some exceptions I prefer the 158 grain loads like the classic "FBI load" lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint - or the solid lead flatnose "cowboy load" from various makers. I would even prfer the 148 grain lead wadcutter "target" load to the fashionable light jacketed hollowpoint loads that abound.
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Ivy Mike
Member
.38 special is plenty
Obviously you're gonna have to put em where it counts, but the torso is a big target.
My grandfather carried his Colt .38 spec during his last years with LAPD and the next 20 for the LVMPD crime lab.
It was accepted by all and I tell ya, I'd hate to be on the business end of that gun.
Obviously you're gonna have to put em where it counts, but the torso is a big target.
My grandfather carried his Colt .38 spec during his last years with LAPD and the next 20 for the LVMPD crime lab.
It was accepted by all and I tell ya, I'd hate to be on the business end of that gun.
shooting time
Member
38 snubby
I used to carry a smith 66 snubby but then changed to a smith 60 snubby 38 carry it 24/7 always reliable
I used to carry a smith 66 snubby but then changed to a smith 60 snubby 38 carry it 24/7 always reliable
Ivy Mike
Member
also worth mentioning is that I'm buying a .38spec snubby to carry in place of my Makarov. While the .380 Mak is plenty in my eyes, the .38 is a classic American firearm, and lends itself to any use I see fit.
Besides...there is just something cool about wheelguns...especially when they are good performers.
Besides...there is just something cool about wheelguns...especially when they are good performers.
Husker1911
Member
Fifty years from now.......
My SW 638 is comfortable, and delivers peace of mind to its owner. I managed gun stores for twenty years, and a common statement I'd make to a prospective snubby owner is this: "In fifty years, when people are carrying proton blasters and particle beam weapons, do you know what? A .38 snubby will STILL get the job done!" It usually brought a smile and knowing nod.
You'd be surprised at my choice for defense ammo. I use 148gr lead full wadcutters! I don't get a blinding muzzle flash, I put five rounds precisely where I'm aiming, and the recoil allows for fast followup shots. I use Hydrashoks in my speedloaders, because wadcutters don't load easily into a chamber.
My SW 638 is comfortable, and delivers peace of mind to its owner. I managed gun stores for twenty years, and a common statement I'd make to a prospective snubby owner is this: "In fifty years, when people are carrying proton blasters and particle beam weapons, do you know what? A .38 snubby will STILL get the job done!" It usually brought a smile and knowing nod.
You'd be surprised at my choice for defense ammo. I use 148gr lead full wadcutters! I don't get a blinding muzzle flash, I put five rounds precisely where I'm aiming, and the recoil allows for fast followup shots. I use Hydrashoks in my speedloaders, because wadcutters don't load easily into a chamber.
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