Is any "Blackpowder Starting Kit" worth the money?

[Kitchen_Duty]

I just bought a hawken rifle in .50 and was looking at all the accessories I would need to do the hobby. I'm trying to see if piecing together my own kit would be worth it but I keep seeing these premade ones too. I have done a little homework and i'm not asking for a free ride Any advice on these or if i should piece together my own, thanks in advance.

Also, where do you guys generally buy your round balls at? I was thinking about using Missouri bullet company seems since i use their bullets in my modern handguns, but the cheaper the better.

Cabela's Premium Kit

Cabela's Starter Kit

Dixie Gunworks bag

 

[arcticap]

The problem with those kits is that you're not getting what you really need, and what you do get may not be what you really want.
When first getting into the sport for the long term, accessories are going to be needed and used for as long as you have the gun. So may as well get the right stuff from the beginning.

Take a look at Cain's Outdoor and compare, they've been around for a long time and they sell virtually everything.

http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/

This kit isn't too bad. It contains about $20 worth of useful projectiles and some brass accessories and many other items that are really necessary.

http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/shop/item.asp?item=01026

 

[SleazyRider]

Avoid the starter kits. They are a "one size fits all" approach and usually do not contain high-quality stuff. As you grow in the hobby, I think you'll be shedding many of the items in your starter kit for better or more appropriate stuff. Read everything you can about the Hawken and BPS, and have a good look at http://www.possibleshop.com/.

THR member arcticap has good deals on balls, so you might want to check with him.

 

[OH_Spartan]

When I first got into black powder, I was completely clueless and bought the starter kit. As previous posts predicted, I have shed about half of the items for better quality or filled in stuff the kit didn't have in it. In the end, I think I spent a little more money than I would have just buying the individual components. HOWEVER, I didn't know what to buy and the starter kit gave me everything I needed to keep from hurting my gun (except anti-sieze for the breech plug).

In the end....if you have a buddy that can help you fill your cart with the right stuff the first time, that's a better way to go. If not, you can get started with the starter kit.

 

[Chawbaccer]

those kits seem to be geared a bit towards inlines instead of a side lock.

 

[goon]

Ask what you need on here and get what these guys suggest.

 

[ClemBert]

NO

 

[mr16ga]

When I bought my .50 TC Hawken it came with everything I needed except the powder, primer and Balls. Beside the rifle it had a ball mold and maxi ball mold and handles, powder measure, ball starter, nipple wrench, various cleaning jags and a tube of lube. What comes with the rifle these days? You may not need much else. I added a primer holder and a powder flask to the pillow ticking, powder, balls and primers.

 

[Kitchen_Duty]

When I bought my .50 TC Hawken it came with everything I needed except the powder, primer and Balls. Beside the rifle it had a ball mold and maxi ball mold and handles, powder measure, ball starter, nipple wrench, various cleaning jags and a tube of lube. What comes with the rifle these days? You may not need much else. I added a primer holder and a powder flask to the pillow ticking, powder, balls and primers.

I got a used one off gunbroker. The seller said it "comes with accessories" but he hasn't emailed me a list of what he's providing me with. Until I won the auction and contacted him I was unaware of any accessories so I started shopping around trying to find a kit.

So, now I'm in limbo waiting for his list and then I can get a true "must buy" list.

 

[Pancho]

I guess if one didn't have a support group (like our forum) a starter kit would give one the confidence to step into the other world of muzzleloading and to start shooting immediately.
With the "forum" as a support group I don't think you will need it. Tell us what you intend to do with your gun and the group can guide you. Do you intend to punch paper or do you intend to hunt,what will you hunt and where will you hunt?
Needless to say that you will buy stuff that you won't use more than once. We all have cappers,powder containers, patch knives, powder measures,molds and just plain crap that we've bought and didn't use more than once.
I guess what I'm saying is that a starter kit will get you in the game fast but it won't be the last thing you'll buy to enhance the pleasure of muzzleloading

 

[Kitchen_Duty]

I will use this muzzleloader only as a range gun, punching paper.

Unless I move to a state that only allows shotguns/muzzleloaders for hunting I have better options (for me) to use.

I am intending to shoot patched round balls that I would buy instead of cast myself since i don't cast. I'm not intending to shoot sabots or minnie-balls as of yet but minnie balls are on the table for "maybe later".
I figured I'd use Pyrodex in the beginning compared BP since it lights well with percussion caps. I would use the percussion caps that the nipple is ready for which I'm guessing is #11.

I'm intending to buy (unless he gives me a some of the things on the list):

• a more dedicated ramrod. I'm horribly clumsy sometimes and i've broken/bent my fair share of cleaning rods/tips. I'll keep the factory one installed JIC
  
• Capper/decapper
  
• Dedicated cleaning kit - which should have oil, grease for the nipple, and cleaning patches
  
• powder measurer
  
• powder horn (a brass one, not a hollowed out horn- not yet anyway)
  
• some .015 patches for my .49- round balls
  
• ball remover/patch grabber - but i've heard you can just tickle powder down the flashhole once the nipple is removed but I've done NO research about the... safety of this.
  
• some of that magic foam to clean the gun - brand unknown but I'm sure it's out there
  
• and last: a sling that connects to the ramrod but I haven't found one yet in my price range (< $45) that i know will work, I literally just googled it for the first time today and have done no further research.

 

[arcticap]

That's a very good list.
Don't forget about a nipple wrench and a nipple pick.

2 other items are a cleaning jag and a patch worm that are ram rod attachments.

A cleaning jag is ribbed and holds the patches when swabbing the bore clean. It serves to replace the patch holder or loop that attaches to a cleaning rod.

A patch worm has 2 hooks on it to help grab any patches that fall off the jag into the bottom of the barrel.
It helps to fish the lost patch out of the barrel.

 

[Pancho]

Not much magic to cleaning a muzzleloader except that you must do it and do it well. My only suggestion for an all around maintenance elixir would be Ballistol, mixed with water it makes an excellent cleaner and used straight is an excellent lubricant and corrosion preventative.
Since we muzzleloader types like to tweak I'd suggest, in the future, that you switch to musket caps, they are much larger so they are easier to handle and a lot hotter than the standard #11 cap.

 

[mykeal]

a more dedicated ramrod.

Good idea. It's called a range rod. Leave the factory rod in the gun where it will look good and get a solid brass range rod. And add a short starter, mandatory.

Capper/decapper

Not mandatory for a long gun, but convenient. A decapper is a good pocket knife. To save some money, leave this until later.

Dedicated cleaning kit - which should have oil, grease for the nipple, and cleaning patches

Ummm, well, ok. Add the cleaning jag as has already been mentioned. Typically these 'kits' don't come already assembled for black powder like they do for smokeless guns - you'll need to put it together, but you're on the right track.

powder measurer

Yep.

powder horn (a brass one, not a hollowed out horn- not yet anyway)

It's called a powder flask.

some .015 patches for my .49- round balls

Ok to start out, but you'll eventually want to experiment with other thicknesses.

ball remover/patch grabber - but i've heard you can just tickle powder down the flashhole once the nipple is removed but I've done NO research about the... safety of this.

The ball remover and patch remover are two separate tools; good to get both. Putting powder under the nipple to remove a stuck ball is just as safe as shooting the gun in the first place. Just observe all the same safety rules, including the one about making sure the ball is seated on the powder.

some of that magic foam to clean the gun - brand unknown but I'm sure it's out there

Yeah, it's out there. So is the Brooklyn Bridge and cheap waterfront land in Florida. One word, repeat after me: water. Plain old water. Works just fine and costs a lot less.

and last: a sling that connects to the ramrod but I haven't found one yet in my price range (< $45) that i know will work, I literally just googled it for the first time today and have done no further research.

Ok, but if you're target shooting you won't ever use it. It'll just get in the way. If you want an authentic sling that doesn't require swivels, don't leave it on the gun during storage or you'll find it changes the finish under it.

 

[mr16ga]

I got a used one off gunbroker. The seller said it "comes with accessories" but he hasn't emailed me a list of what he's providing me with. Until I won the auction and contacted him I was unaware of any accessories so I started shopping around trying to find a kit.

So, now I'm in limbo waiting for his list and then I can get a true "must buy" list.

Must have list. For me a powder measure and powder flask and a primer holder I like the pistol version of primer holders. if you shoot round balls you will need some washed pillow ticking for patching and some lube I like bore butter. a ball starter. a knife for cutting the patch off once the ball is started. I don't like the little pre-cut patches because the are too hard to center on the bore. I have found power horns a pain to use. A Possibilities bag (a man purse for your gun stuff) is very nice to tote your accessories around in. Don't go load yourself up with a lot of extra things until you shoot some. After a while you will figure out what is needed.

 

[Noz]

I agree with Clembert.

 

[ZVP]

The only acessory I got with the ONE Starter Kit I did buy was a very handy, Pocket sized, Round, Brass Powder Flask.
Otherwise they are just a trap for newbe's.
JMHO
ZVP

 

[SleazyRider]

Stocking stuffer

This isn't a necessity, but I sure found it handy. It's a tiny little LED flashlight that runs on two of those aspirin-sized batteries. The whole thing is about the size of a peanut. You drop it in the bore with the light pointing toward the muzzle and look in. It will tell you how effective your cleaning regimen has been.

Here it is: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cva-trophy-bore-light.aspx?a=415984

Just don't forget to take the danged thing out before your pour in your next charge!

 

[SleazyRider]

Man-purse?

BTW, my possibles bag is a recycled woman's handbag that my wife threw in the trash. It has served me well for many years.

 

[arcticap]

Same here. I bought it at a thrift shop.

 

[alsask]

Those plastic squeze bottles of mustard, with the tapered pour spout,make an excellant powder flask. They hold about 2/3 of a pound of powder. I actually prefer it to my brass powder flask.

Once you wash it out rinse it again in soapy water and let the soapy water dry and you won't have any problems with static cling.

 

[OH_Spartan]

I may be the only one that does this and I'm sure it's not couth or violates some unwritten man-law of blackpowder shooting, but I always have a rubber mallet with me to get the ball through the muzzle. Once I get it started, and switch from starter to ram-rod, I just use my hand.

For the record...I target shoot on my own property, so I have never been to a range or competition where I may have gotten made-fun-of for this practice.

 

[frontiergander]

wow none of those kits are worth a darn.

They are directed more towards the inline shooters.

 

[Dellbert]

Howdy There

Looks like your ready to go. oh I believe I would use a good wooden ball starter with the big round ball top. I was looking at one that was a little longer than the norm at Dixie Gun Works. In all these years I have only had to buy four, there pretty strong. The normal length one is what I'm use to. you can always add the tip you want to them. The ram rod, I got one of the folding T handle rods. Never had to use the one that came with the rifle anymore. Liked it so much, went and got another. I did switch over to the musket cap nipple, and kept the one that came on the rifle as a spare. I did buy two of the brass round flask cause thy hold right much powder, and don't take up a lot of room and a brass powder measuring tool that has the sliding bottom w/ numbers on it. couple boxs of rd balls. couple boxs of caps .015 patches, couple tubes of bore butter. That Ballistol sounds like a good idea. I want a couple bottles of that myself. Those kits are ,well I don't like them, cause a lot of um are cheap stuff, and cost to much. If you put your stuff together you come out better off in the long run. The only way I would get one is if I was in the meddle of nowhere and had to get shooting soon as possible. I just said all this to meet another member Everybody done told you everything you need to know. Just my two cents worth. Hack I don't know how to spell any more. I got to go nighty night. One more little thing FORGET SABOT ANYTHING in that hawken. I tryed to use the crush rib with .45 cal 240gr pistol bullets in it, thought I was going to have to stand on the ram rod to get it down the barrel. :banghead: Round ball will put dinner on the table in a flat second, and it don't take but 80 / 90grs of powder to do it, I'm talkin big deer to. 70 / 80grs for TC maxi bullets or maxi hunters. Less powder seems to work out better in those rifles for some reason. Don't ever let anyone tell you, that you need a bigger gun to get it done . Have fun. Be safe, and good luck. Later.

 

[Kitchen_Duty]

Yeah since this will be just a fun range gun i was intending to just shoot round balls for the time being. Since maxi balls cost $1/shot I figure I can get a lot more enjoyment out of rounds with a little less accuracy. For deer/elk in washington I bow/modern rifle hunt but now i have the option to have all three seasons if need be... especially with the draconian muzzleloader season regs here.

I'm still waiting on my seller to email me with his list of stuff. I figure I'd get the complete list of stuff when the box arrives at my door