Is "Grass Roots North Carolina" real or fake? They are pro NFA gun control.

[wacki]

I already made one suggestion. Here's a quickly polished up a version:

Even though the ATF did not list a single violent crime this would be effective against, we will support the fingerprinting and photographing of all trustees ONLY IF it's done during the amendment period and not with each purchase. Fingerprints are good for life and photographs should be good for at least as long as a passport (10 years). This would minimize unreasonable burdens on law abiding NFA collectors and their families while ensuring prohibited persons don't slip through the cracks. The extended timelines for fingerprints and photographs should apply to individual transfers as well.

I'll query the forums and see if they can come up with anything better.

Thank you for being open minded.

 

[wacki]

I have the same problem with my wife which I have rectified by allowing her to purchase any item of her choosing of equal value to mine. Since I like machine guns I'll let you do the math.

Given that each machine gun is likely a $10,000+ purchase and the gift to the wife will also be $10,000+, I have a feeling you (and to a lesser extent I) are far better off than most people. Money makes life easier doesn't it? I'm well aware of this yet I prefer not to ignore the little people. Not everyone can buy freedom for $20,000+ a pop.

Besides, I'm young and suffering from tinnitus. I muff and plug but frequent shooting and bone conduction got the best of my ears. Most of the guys at my range have hearing aids. Suppressors are a health issue for me and I believe all active shooters should have easy access to them.

My SBR's are a different story.

 

[Jaymo]

I'm with wacki on this.
We shouldn't even have NFA to have to abide by. It's unconstitutional, at best.
Why should anyone have to get fingerprinted and photographed, just to exercise their Constitutional rights?
There has been too much compromise on the part of pro gun lobbies and NONE on the part of anti gun whackos.

I remember watching a commercial from one of the Brady Campaign's "pro gun" groups.
It was sickening. It is socialist propaganda at it's worst.

No offense Delta, but y'all sound like another Astro Turf.
The socialists are quick to get offended and demand apologies, in order to bully the opposition.
Just like you did here.

You don't have time to go to pertinent forums (fora?), and explain your position?
That sounds like Astro Turf, to me.
Could it be because your position would get ripped to shreds by pro gun people on those forums?

 

[12131]

^^^ Jaymo, well said.

 

[NC NFA DA]

NC NFA Defense Assoc Wrote that portion of the Alert & I will Own it totally

Wacki

I've been out of town with a group of Scouts, and apologize to GRNC for them getting dragged into this and having to deal with the fall out for 24 hours while I was away.

#1 you can get off GRNC's back.. I wrote that portion of the alert and I will stand by it and defend it to the end..
We (NC NFA DA) have been the preeminent Class 3 propionates in NC since 1999. We partner with GRNC on many things class 3 related and we wrote that portion of the alert because of our specialized knowledge in the area of NFA ownership in NC.

#2 People like you make me very angry.. IDK how the rules of this forum say you can't attack someone, but the title of your post is COMPLETELY off target is in fact an unwarranted attack.

You and so many other arm chair talking heads like to stir a big pile of crap, but I don't ever seen you at the House or Representatives, or in meetings with Senators, or going up against the NC AG's Office or the NFA office of the BATFE.

Anyone can select 1 line quotes out of context and cause inflammatory results among a group of people.. It accomplishes NOTHING except dissention in the ranks of the PRO GUN MOVEMENT.

You state in you first or 2nd post that you don't want to be bothered to pull your wife down to the Police Station for Prints and Mugs.. Yet you want to jump on Delta1 for his post, the most factual in the bunch thus far... for getting upset over your total lack of knowledge on this subject.
Wait till BATFE and DOJ add their draconian CLEO expansion that we are trying to eliminate !!!


If you would stop going to different websites and copying inflammatory 1 liners and actually take the time to educate yourself as tot he history behind what is going on here you may have some prospective.

The NFATCA lobbied the BATFE/NFA office for several years to get Prints and Mugs added to all TRUST and LLC's for NFA Ownership.. They are progun and they did this to effectively eliminate the CLEO signature from all NFA transfers, in turn using NICS and similar for NFA transactions so MORE people can get NFA.
The preliminary reason people can't get them is the refusal of the CLEO to sign off.. They wanted to eliminate that and tried to do a trade off..
AGAIN THEY LOBBIED FOR PRINTS AND MUGS ON ALL MEMBERS OF NFA TRUST AND LLCs.
Now with Obama's Executive or telling BATFE AND DOJ to tighten the "loop hole" with TRUST and LLCs the DOJ and BATFE took years of lobbying by NFATCA and turned it around on them.. they have given far more than enough to burry us all under Prints and Mugs.. That's coming.. you can bitch about it or you can stand and fight about the part that is FAR FAR FAR worse..
The BATFE and DOJ want to EXPAND the CLEO signoff to all members of all members of all TRUST and LLCs obtaining NFA items for all purchases..
So you think rolling a set of prints and snapping a photo is a pain in the ass... keep bitching and raising a stink rather than combining efforts and fighting the CLEO endorsement and we are going to have TRUST AND LLC's completely NEUTERED rather than merely inconvenienced.

You can jump up and down, and raise a stink, and point fingers, but I have seen your type before and NEVER have I seen one of those that want to cause problems actually doing anything to HELP THE PROBLEM.

I'm not going to debate you, I'm not going to stoop to the level of your adolescent comments.. Myself and my group (in partnership with GRNC) have done more for NFA Ownership in North Carolina than anyone in history.
We are the reason you can legally own any NFA items on a Trust in NC.. because before the amendments we wrote in HB650 it was illegal!! Also before our Amendments you had to have a MG Permit from the State.. now using the correct reasons, you don't.. thanks again to NC NFA and GRNC.. next the HB937 Suppressor Hunting addition.. Who do you think was pushing that and wrote several drafts of the amendment as well as caught a MAJOR error that was originally introduced on the NRA's version of the bill (which failed).

The NFATCA insured that Prints and Mugs are coming to Trust and LLC's..
THEY GOT ROYALLY SCREWED BY THE GOVERNMENT!! I only fault them for ever trusting the establishment to hold their end of any trade off or bargain.

Even though you quote another 1 liner from NRA ILA where BATFE/DOJ have cited no instances of a crime committed with a NFA item owned by a Trust/LLC" WELL THANK GOD THEY CANT or we would be screwed on TRUST/LLCs.
BATFE and DOJ did cite several instances in their original proposal as to the pit falls of unchecked Trust and LLCs.. including 1 dumb ass that was rejected on a form 4 as a prohibited person, and then formed a Trust under his same name and tried to circumvent the background check.. Then certainly you will remember the cop out in California earlier this year that went nuts killing people and had bragged on several web sites how easy if was for him to get NFA items on his Nevada Trust.. That thrust a spotlight on the issue.

Now you can continue to whine, and moan and arm chair the issue from your narrow prospective or you can see it for what it is and help prevent a disaster with Trust and LLC's. Because if they implement to CLEO endorsement portion of their proposal, they will bring a end to probably 60-70% of Trust ownership, where as Prints and Mugs will be a very slight inconvenience.

Regardless you can get off GRNC's back.. they are the best of the best.. you want to jump on someone.. bring it on... I'll stand on my record any day.

Jeff Lawrence
President NC NFA Defense Assoc.

 

[wacki]

I'm not going to debate you, I'm not going to stoop to the level of your adolescent comments..

Another person demanding apologies from me. I'm "adolescent"? Awesome. This just gets better and better.

Let me ask you the same question, how many times do you think I should drag my entire family to get fingerprinted? Fingerprints stay the same for your entire life. Why can't you amend one single sentence pointing that out? Why can't you answer that single question?

Btw, here's a thread on NFA talk where I copied your ENTIRE form letter:

http://nfatalk.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9460

It's a small group but nobody is supporting your position at that forum either.

And for the record I just wrote all three of my representatives yesterday and I'm working my tail off to fight your organization that seems to want to repeatedly fingerprint and mugshot my entire family. So don't call me lazy when you can't edit a single sentence.



.

 

[wacki]

No offense Delta, but y'all sound like another Astro Turf.
The socialists are quick to get offended and demand apologies, in order to bully the opposition.
Just like you did here.

You don't have time to go to pertinent forums (fora?), and explain your position?
That sounds like Astro Turf, to me.
Could it be because your position would get ripped to shreds by pro gun people on those forums?

Great points!

I'd like to point out that all of the following companies

• Thompson Machine
• Liberty Cans
• SWR
• SilencerCo
• Advanced Armament (Rob Silvers)
• SSNFA
• SilencerShop

Frequently post on all of those forums. If I post a question SilencerCo will answer in less than two hours. Liberty Cans spends a ton of time on those forums as well.

I guess the Grass Roots North Carolina are too busy to do what all the regular NFA firearms folks do. Interesting that all of you guys have a post count of 1 and a join date of October 19th. So where did you guys learn to navigate the NFA / machine gun laws?

I'll sit here like a "adolescent" (as you call me) waiting for another answer I probably won't get.


I was just starting to think Delta1 was real. Now I'm wondering what the heck is actually going on again.

.

 

[wacki]

In order to ensure honest discussion. I edited the original post to include your ENTIRE form letter as I did on NFAtalk and others did on SilencerTalk. I kept the sentence in question in bold blue but others should have no problem understanding the context.

Still, the sentence in needs to be changed / modified. This should not be this difficult. I find it absolutely bizarre that I have to fight you on this.



.

 

[rockmup]

Unfortunately, groups like "Grass Roots North Carolina" are real. They think because they form a group they can speak for all of us. Not unlike, the liberals in California.

Fortunately, they can be dismissed as their position is one of surrender. Ask the Jews how that worked for them.

We as active NFA item owners can and should put more of our money and time to those that support our positions on things that are important to us.

They are not it. In fact, I'd never heard of them until this so its safe to say they hardly come close to representing most of us. Their juvenile responses tend to support that

Stand your ground WACKI. It was a fair question

 

[Robert]

We do not engage in cross forum wars. I do not care what happens on other sites. This is The High Road. All members in this discussion will abide by the rules and conduct themselves accordingly or they will find other forums. If it has not already happened please read the rules and abide by them.

 

[wacki]

Rereading rules now. Didn't know about the no other forum rule. It is their niche so I found it relevant. This forum isn't NFA centric but has wider audience for investigative purposes.

Please forgive the infraction but I hope the reasoning is obvious.

But I must point out that I did not start the name calling hyperbole.


Sent via iphone

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[NC NFA DA]

Thank You Robert

The only other comment I am going to make on this is that it amaes me that the people that are not activly involved in the process of preserving our rights think you can go up against Law Makers or ATF or DOJ with language like..

"We want to remove all restrictions on NFA items and while we are at it, Roll back the Hughes Amendment of 1986"

I invite anyone who thinks it's that easy to try..

Every word in every alert and every bill and every amendment must be statigicly though out and examined from every angle and interpertation... it's sad but thats the way the real world works..

And when you issue alerts and post on gun boards you cannot put all of your cards on the table or air all your angles on a public forum, else the progun effort will get cut off at the knees at every turn..
Do you show your cards when ya play poker?? Nah.. neither can we.

Im not debating the issues, I know whats going on.. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don't assume we are elitist or idiodt just because we won't engage in wars of words with the very people that we work on behalf of daily to preserve rights..

Most have no idea what it really takes or how much time and dedication is involved in effecting real change or circumventing attacks from the left..

Jeff Lawrence
President NC NFA Defense Assoc.

 

[hso]

Seems this thread was based on the erroneous premise that prints and photos are required every time a barrel less than 16 inches is purchased once you have a registered SBR. Since the receiver is the registered SBR the upper or barrels would be irrelevant and there's no need that any purchase of any barrel under 16 inches after registering the receiver would require anything of anyone.

As to the political details or the question of the intent of one organization or the other, lets start that based on a factually accurate situation instead of hyperbole taken too far.

 

[wacki]

I have 9 suppressor stamps and two Short barrel rifle stamps pending right now. The current system with your recommended adjustments would require my entire family being fingerprinted each time i submitted one of those 11 applications. I've edited my original post to represent that accurately.

I must ask the GRNC again. How many times should each member of my family be fingerprinted?

How many times have you dodged this question?

.

 

[Al Thompson]

I must ask the GRNC again. How many times should each member of my family be fingerprinted?

As the hyperbole is getting thick, best to end this thread. As a long time member of GRSC, I can attest that a strategy to beat a law sometimes has to adjust to a strategy to minimize effects of a bad law. It's sausage, not Filet Mignon.