I dont have a place of my own and dont have the time and money to come back again and again. I want some meat to bring home, so high fence is the way to go . Considering the price of gas nowadays, it makes sense to me to do this . If you are near public hunting grounds or have a private place to hunt, your perceptions might be different.
Is hunting on a ranch really hunting?
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lizziedog1
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When I lived in California I belonged to a pheasant club. Yes, the ones were they plant birds that are slightly more wild than domestic chickens, and at times have similar flying abilities.
Would I have preferred to hunt wild birds? You bet!
But the area I lived in had few wild pheasants and they were located on private property. The chances of getting permission to hunt on them was similar to winning the state lottery.
Sometimes a person would give me a bad time about this method of hunting. I would then ask them to lead me to were I could legally hunt wild birds and not only would I be grateful, I'd even throw him a finders fee. No one took me up on that request. The point I am making, there are some places that one either hunts "preserve" or doesn't hunt at all.
I now live in Nevada. Most of the state is public land. I now hunt only wild birds. Yes, much much better than any club hunting. But, I live in an area that allows for this.
Please, you all do not be too quick to judge.
Would I have preferred to hunt wild birds? You bet!
But the area I lived in had few wild pheasants and they were located on private property. The chances of getting permission to hunt on them was similar to winning the state lottery.
Sometimes a person would give me a bad time about this method of hunting. I would then ask them to lead me to were I could legally hunt wild birds and not only would I be grateful, I'd even throw him a finders fee. No one took me up on that request. The point I am making, there are some places that one either hunts "preserve" or doesn't hunt at all.
I now live in Nevada. Most of the state is public land. I now hunt only wild birds. Yes, much much better than any club hunting. But, I live in an area that allows for this.
Please, you all do not be too quick to judge.
darrell walling
Member
seems to me you may not be a hunter?
Loosedhorse
member
How much deer hunting have you done, to come to this informed perspective? States like ME list 17% hunting success for whitetails back in 1997, and it is not clear that the success rate has done anything except decrease. It would seem to me that it's a "fair fight" if every time a hunter goes out, he has a 50-50 shot of bagging a deer. I think most hunters will tell you the odds are way lower than that, so it seems that the deer are the ones with the "unfair" advantage!
Deer are armed. They have acute senses, they are cautious, they have camouflage, they run fast: those are their defensive weapons. All deer have hooves, and the bucks have antlers: those are their offensive weapons. It is true that those offensive weapons are not as impressive as, say, the claws, teeth, bows or rifles of their several predators (but I didn't plan it that way!). So it is not surprising that they prefer to detect and run away from predators, rather than engage them. Darn good tactics, IMHO; work pretty well, too.
Well, for you it is.
The number of hunters in this country is steadily decreasing, even as the population increases. The attitude that in order to hunt, you need to do scouting, planning, topos, tracking individual deer before the season? That's great, for those who have the time, and who already love the sport. Especially if you've been hunting the same area for years...or generations.
For those who are caught in the standard two- (or three-)job marriages, with kids...and trying to make an introduction to shooting and hunting one of your kids' many activities--all while living in an area that you don't know well regarding hunting?
Perhaps such people just shouldn't hunt, 'cause if they hire a guide and/or pay to hunt on private land, that's not REAL hunting?
Fine. Hunting is an ailing sport with many enemies. Such an attitude should help keep fresh, young blood out of the sport, and so kill hunting more quickly.
As for me, I spent two solid years getting ready for a hunting trip to Africa. But darn it, when I got there, I hired a guide (professional hunter) instead of walking around by myself. I guess I didn't hunt at all.
It just felt like it.
The next time someone knocks on my door asking to hunt. Or the next time I am asked to do a youth hunt of any type. Or the next time I am asked to guide a disabled vet on a deer hunt. i can just laugh in their face and tell them since I have done most of the homework. They are just playing not hunting so they might as well go away.
Heck why teach people or help them out. They should figure it out themselves. Does this also go for anyone asking for advice on hunting. Heck we can even expand it to new shooters asking for help. If new reloaders are having trouble to dang bad. Nice outlook.
darrell walling
Member
I agree hunting is being phased out it's getting harder each year to find places to hunt without joining high priced clubs and harder to hunt you'r wma's to me this is another sympton of behind the bushes attempt at gun control. no one hunts next thing no one needs to own any type rifle or shotgun. so take you'r kids hunting and fishing camping in the outdoors and there will be fewer kids with nothing to do but get into trouble, just a guess on my part.
kyle1974
Member
I love it when certain types of people question what IS and what ISN'T hunting. Just what we need... division among the ranks. If you choose to be an elitist, holier than thou.... that's all fine and dandy, but do all hunters a favor, and keep your opinions to yourself.
I guess the other path you could go down is to join other people that don't like high fence hunting, or private land hunting... perhaps someone like PETA.
I guess the other path you could go down is to join other people that don't like high fence hunting, or private land hunting... perhaps someone like PETA.
MCgunner
Member
I've seen small high fenced operations such as the OP describes and I'll agree that, for exotics on such places, it's not hunting, it's slaughtering livestock. However, there are "ranches" and then there are "ranches" as has been pointed out. It was once said that the King ranch was larger than the state of Rhode Island. I don't think that's true anymore as it's been sold off or divided over the years, but it's still huge. Combined with the Kenedy next door, I imagine it's still bigger than Rhode Island. Deer never leave roughly a square mile from where they are dropped and if there's any cover at all, hunting is hunting, ranch or national forest.
kyle1974
Member
I just don't think people up in the northeast, or midwest have an idea about the size of many ranches in texas. Surely out west there is some BLM land that is huge, but when someone from ohio that hunts 4 people on 200 acres critisizes about what "fair chase" is, it gets on my nerves a bit.
oneounceload
member
I consider it to be more "hunting" than sitting in a tree stand over a food plot you've maintained for the previous few months - that to me is deer waiting
I have hunted pheasants on farms and ranches that were many sections in size - you earned what you took
I have hunted pheasants on farms and ranches that were many sections in size - you earned what you took
glockky
Member
I just couldnt get any gratification out of shooting an animal inside a high fence. I would rather settle for a small buck taken here on the family farm than pay to kill a big deer. I am very familiar with how these work, a family friend owns and runs one. I mean hows it huting whenever you can come hunt one weekend with a guranteed shot at a buck. And before you go on the hunt you decide how many inch buck you can afford. These deer are brought in from Canada and all over the U.S. and are sold pretty much like livestock. Which leads me to the same question as other have said on here. At what point does it become livestock instead of a game animal?
And my family goes on these kinds of hunts. They were in last week and were showing me pics of some exotics they planned to kill, and telling me what trophys they were. And guess where the pics of the animals were taken, none other than the stall of barn. I mean come on when theres a 100% success rate thats not hunting. That's just a slaughter house and target practice.
Well theres my .02 i am sure alot of you guys are not gonna like it but theat how i feel.
And my family goes on these kinds of hunts. They were in last week and were showing me pics of some exotics they planned to kill, and telling me what trophys they were. And guess where the pics of the animals were taken, none other than the stall of barn. I mean come on when theres a 100% success rate thats not hunting. That's just a slaughter house and target practice.
Well theres my .02 i am sure alot of you guys are not gonna like it but theat how i feel.
Bobson
Member
You are correct, sir. You paid thousands of dollars (I assume) to go target shooting in Africa. To each his own, but I don't see that as being any more sporting than dropping a baited hook in a bathtub with trout in it and calling it fishing.
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Personally, Ive never hunted a high fenced area. So I really cannot comment on actual hunts.
I live close to what I can only assume is an Exotics broker or Quarantine pasture for imports. (?) There are fresh exotics of every type brought in weekly. One week you have your typical Rocky Mountain Elk the next week you will have a small herd of Kudu, Sambar, Topi, Gazelle, etc. etc.. The "old" batch is quickly dispersed. I would certainly hope they dont hunt there as its probably round 40 acres give or take and just cleared pasture land. Its interesting to see the types of animals that I would never normally see but its also disheartening that they are probably only there for someone pick out his mount.
Living in TX, if I want to hunt here I have little choice but to hunt on someones ranch. Around 99% of TX is privately owned. I choose to go to CO and NM to hunt thou.
I live close to what I can only assume is an Exotics broker or Quarantine pasture for imports. (?) There are fresh exotics of every type brought in weekly. One week you have your typical Rocky Mountain Elk the next week you will have a small herd of Kudu, Sambar, Topi, Gazelle, etc. etc.. The "old" batch is quickly dispersed. I would certainly hope they dont hunt there as its probably round 40 acres give or take and just cleared pasture land. Its interesting to see the types of animals that I would never normally see but its also disheartening that they are probably only there for someone pick out his mount.
Living in TX, if I want to hunt here I have little choice but to hunt on someones ranch. Around 99% of TX is privately owned. I choose to go to CO and NM to hunt thou.
Carl N. Brown
Member
My hunting was on farms or land owned by individuals always under "fair chase" rules; if by "hunting on a ranch" you mean a "canned hunt" with a guaranteed kill, no that's not what I call hunting. Also I shot to eat, not to hang on the wall.
kyle1974
Member
It was pretty amazing when the ranch I hunt was high fenced. We had no big deer at all. It was only 10,850 acres. and then BAM! as soon as the high fence went up, there were big deer EVERYWHERE!! it was like divine intervention, the magical high fence. (end sarcasm)
I've seen some HF operations that are kicking out deer, or buying exotics to stock the property with. I've also seen HF ranches that are relatively small, but they allow a landowner to manage his property the way he wants to. The place I hunt is high fenced, and many of the deer probably never see the fence. it's like 15 square miles. before everyone here decides what canned hunting is be definition, lets think back to some species of exotics that would likely be extinct from this planet if it weren't for high fence ranches...
Is it fair chase when there's a deer blind every 35 acres? is it fair chase when you're hunting on 23 acres bordered by a river, or highway? Is it fair chase when a dozen people go on a deer drive, pushing the deer through a thicket to a couple people waiting on the other side?
the only thing "fair chase" seems to mean, is that a deer can be shot by and random person... it means absolutely nothing about any given deer getting away from all hunters. I would venture to say that most people that hunt are trying to skew the odds in their favor. You sight your rifle capable of 200 yard shots (or higher if that's your thing), you walk silently in the woods, sprayed down with your favorite scent killer... you wear the latest in camoflauge technology.... spray a little "doe in heat" attractant on the ground, mixed with some skunt scent cover spray.... possibly throw out some corn, hunt over a corn field or food plot. but those guys who hunt in a high fence, why by God, they're cheatin!!! I guess I don't see it. The only thing a deer has to do to make it fair chase, is get away from me.
There is a large 9 point on the place I hunt that is seen about once every 2 years..... but it's HF, so it's a guaranteed kill? the last time he was seen was out of a helicopter. Weird how those HF deer can get so smart. Of course, he's penned up in 15 square miles, so it's not like he has anywhere to go.....
One of the most ridiculous places I've ever hunted was in the Texas hill country outside of Leakey. There were NO fences, but the deer were insanely stupid. Was it fair chase? there were no fences, so I guess it was....
hunting is different based on where you are.... south texas isn't like colorado. You can't sit on top of a hill and spot and stalk deer from a mile away. likewise, if you were to sit up in a "spot" in colorado all day, perhaps you'd never see anything? who knows.... I'm certainly not going to critisize someone for hunting a different way than I do.
I've seen some HF operations that are kicking out deer, or buying exotics to stock the property with. I've also seen HF ranches that are relatively small, but they allow a landowner to manage his property the way he wants to. The place I hunt is high fenced, and many of the deer probably never see the fence. it's like 15 square miles. before everyone here decides what canned hunting is be definition, lets think back to some species of exotics that would likely be extinct from this planet if it weren't for high fence ranches...
Is it fair chase when there's a deer blind every 35 acres? is it fair chase when you're hunting on 23 acres bordered by a river, or highway? Is it fair chase when a dozen people go on a deer drive, pushing the deer through a thicket to a couple people waiting on the other side?
the only thing "fair chase" seems to mean, is that a deer can be shot by and random person... it means absolutely nothing about any given deer getting away from all hunters. I would venture to say that most people that hunt are trying to skew the odds in their favor. You sight your rifle capable of 200 yard shots (or higher if that's your thing), you walk silently in the woods, sprayed down with your favorite scent killer... you wear the latest in camoflauge technology.... spray a little "doe in heat" attractant on the ground, mixed with some skunt scent cover spray.... possibly throw out some corn, hunt over a corn field or food plot. but those guys who hunt in a high fence, why by God, they're cheatin!!! I guess I don't see it. The only thing a deer has to do to make it fair chase, is get away from me.
There is a large 9 point on the place I hunt that is seen about once every 2 years..... but it's HF, so it's a guaranteed kill? the last time he was seen was out of a helicopter. Weird how those HF deer can get so smart. Of course, he's penned up in 15 square miles, so it's not like he has anywhere to go.....
One of the most ridiculous places I've ever hunted was in the Texas hill country outside of Leakey. There were NO fences, but the deer were insanely stupid. Was it fair chase? there were no fences, so I guess it was....
hunting is different based on where you are.... south texas isn't like colorado. You can't sit on top of a hill and spot and stalk deer from a mile away. likewise, if you were to sit up in a "spot" in colorado all day, perhaps you'd never see anything? who knows.... I'm certainly not going to critisize someone for hunting a different way than I do.
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kyle1974
Member
tarosean... are you talking about that place on 45 by madisonville? I think that place belongs to the person who owns woody's (jergy and sausage place)... I'm pretty sure he's a broker for those animals.
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I had a lease on a ranch in Texas that was cattle fenced into 25,000 acre pastures and encompassed some 209,000 total acres.
That is larger than many wilderness areas here in Colorado. Large enough that you can't drive around it in 4 days. large enough that from my camp to the south boundary line take a tank and half of gas in a four wheeler. Large enough that in ten years of hunting it I never saw the whole thing. Large enough that most deer on that place die of old age or mountain lions.
So what was the OP's question again? Oh yeah is it real hunting? My answer, if I need to explain it to you you haven't a clue as to what wild country is and what it's like to hunt a ranch. Seriously a ranch like that is bigger and more wild that almost any public land hunting blocks you are going to hunt in the North East.
I am guessing however from the OP's hit and run tactics that he or she isn't really interested in an truthful factual answer.
That is larger than many wilderness areas here in Colorado. Large enough that you can't drive around it in 4 days. large enough that from my camp to the south boundary line take a tank and half of gas in a four wheeler. Large enough that in ten years of hunting it I never saw the whole thing. Large enough that most deer on that place die of old age or mountain lions.
So what was the OP's question again? Oh yeah is it real hunting? My answer, if I need to explain it to you you haven't a clue as to what wild country is and what it's like to hunt a ranch. Seriously a ranch like that is bigger and more wild that almost any public land hunting blocks you are going to hunt in the North East.
I am guessing however from the OP's hit and run tactics that he or she isn't really interested in an truthful factual answer.
usmc1371
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Complete TROLL thread. Trash it.
desidog
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This is such a subjective question that talking about it is such broad terms is somewhat ridiculous. Terrain, topography, climate, population densities, et cetera all play big roles.
Here in suburban CT, the only high fences are to keep deer Out. Deer are either considered pests or "awwwww fuzzy". There's not a lot of middle ground.
To find hunting locations, i look at the properties between the fenced properties, looking for game trails that funnel into choke points (which is greatly aided by the deer-fences). Then i get permission; and if all goes well, you can watch a non-stop parade what with the overpopulation of deer.
Here in suburban CT, the only high fences are to keep deer Out. Deer are either considered pests or "awwwww fuzzy". There's not a lot of middle ground.
To find hunting locations, i look at the properties between the fenced properties, looking for game trails that funnel into choke points (which is greatly aided by the deer-fences). Then i get permission; and if all goes well, you can watch a non-stop parade what with the overpopulation of deer.
EmGeeGeorge
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Methinks that game ranches have a place for; the disabled, persons from city areas(and no other access to hunting areas), teaching junior hunters maybe.
Seems like being a "hunter" of tame and confined game is a bit like being a self-proclaimed ladies man who goes to houses of ill repute...
Seems like being a "hunter" of tame and confined game is a bit like being a self-proclaimed ladies man who goes to houses of ill repute...
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