Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Hokay, thanks. Still, it was a case of fixing something that wasn't broke.
Fenced in hunting?
- Thread starter Gary O
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Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Some video of the O2. Lots of effort into grasslands restoration. 90,000 acres of it are up for hunting leasing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW75lRxMkHY
It opens with a view of Black Mesa to the north; then Santiago Peak to the east. (Santiago VOR to local pilots.) The highway frontage of the west pasture is 28 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW75lRxMkHY
It opens with a view of Black Mesa to the north; then Santiago Peak to the east. (Santiago VOR to local pilots.) The highway frontage of the west pasture is 28 miles.
Liberty1776
Member
172,900 acres... holy carp! I can't imagine what it cost to fence that in....
burrhead
Member
"172,900 acres... holy carp! I can't imagine what it cost to fence that in…."
We had some large, devastating fires here a few years ago. One ranch owner I spoke to, who was spared any fire damage, told me he had 50 miles of fence and it would run him $10,000 a mile. That's to fence in about 150 sections; 32,000 acres.
We had some large, devastating fires here a few years ago. One ranch owner I spoke to, who was spared any fire damage, told me he had 50 miles of fence and it would run him $10,000 a mile. That's to fence in about 150 sections; 32,000 acres.
My friend has over a million dollars in fencing his 1000 acres in Alabama but I don't know if that is all inclusive or just the fence and materials. A lot of dozier work went in to preparing to erect the fence and then you can imagine the number of fence posts and man hours involved in fencing in dense pine thickets and hardwood bottoms.
Heck I cringe just putting up 3 strands of barbed wire around a pasture!
Heck I cringe just putting up 3 strands of barbed wire around a pasture!
There have been a few things mentioned on this thread that some of us might not have thought about. Fencing for example. I wouldn’t want to fence in a section, then I come to find out a section might be considered a small pasture to some! One would have to have a lot of happy clients just to pay for the fence alone. I also did a little searching on the net and came up with some interesting information. There are several groups dedicated to breeding and improving whitetails. One of them is the North American Deer Farmers Association. Their site had info on nutrition, fencing, etc., just like any good livestock organization. The clincher to me was when I found folks selling straws of semen with pictures of their sires from $250 to $5000 a straw! I’d say anyone who invests this amount of time, money and energy into this has quite an investment and expects a good return, in other words they have customers. Hope it lasts unlike the ostrich craze of a couple decades ago.
Up until recently I’d never talked to anyone who’d been to a “fenced” hunt before other than those to go shoot elk up N of me in that 100 acre pen. I’d plumb forgot that not long ago I did get a chance to talk to someone here who’d done it. What struck me is he was a happy camper and carried a picture of his buck in his wallet which he was happy to show me. The closest I’ve been to this was a few pheasant preserves and watched what they did but I never killed a preserve bird on purpose mostly because I had access to some great wild pheasant hunting in SD. Some of those preserves had a lot of clients and have been in business for a bunch of years which tells me they were making money and had repeat customers.
I guess what I’m saying is these “fenced hunt” folks fill a niche or a need for the hunting community. If my experience with that one fellow down here is any example of how most everyone felt after than experience then maybe, just maybe I’d try it.
Up until recently I’d never talked to anyone who’d been to a “fenced” hunt before other than those to go shoot elk up N of me in that 100 acre pen. I’d plumb forgot that not long ago I did get a chance to talk to someone here who’d done it. What struck me is he was a happy camper and carried a picture of his buck in his wallet which he was happy to show me. The closest I’ve been to this was a few pheasant preserves and watched what they did but I never killed a preserve bird on purpose mostly because I had access to some great wild pheasant hunting in SD. Some of those preserves had a lot of clients and have been in business for a bunch of years which tells me they were making money and had repeat customers.
I guess what I’m saying is these “fenced hunt” folks fill a niche or a need for the hunting community. If my experience with that one fellow down here is any example of how most everyone felt after than experience then maybe, just maybe I’d try it.
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Gary O
Member
Finally, I should have mentioned that due to age and physical condition, many hunting situations are no longer open for me. I was just hoping to ask about expanding what is there for me. Sorry if I stirred folks up...
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Gary O
Member
Brad, thanks for your kind words. I am becoming gun-shy these days. It is so easy to offend folks. I usually get called a name somewhere in the conversation. I an now rethinking my presence here on these sites...
eastbank
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the fenced in hunts all depend on the size of the area fenced in, go try and find a certain animal on 60,000 acers, you had better have good boots, hunting on 100 acers will be a different hunt entirley. plus what type of fence is used, a three strand four foot high fence or a 12 foor high close net fence. eastbank.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
GaryO, a house rule is that courtesy and politeness are a top priority. This place is for grownups; it ain't a day-care center for hostile little kiddies. 
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Gary O
Member
that is a joke, right?GaryO, a house rule is that courtesy and politeness are a top priority. This place is for grownups; it ain't a day-care center for hostile little kiddies.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I don't think you stirred anyone up.
If your situation limits you to that type of hunting, then go out there and enjoy yourself man. That's what it is supposed to be about anyway. There's certainly nothing unethical about that type of hunting. If that was all I could do, you bet your posterior I'd be out there doing it.
buck460XVR
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....and this is what makes it a shoot, instead of a hunt. Not the fence. Same can be said for folks that pay big bucks to do a wilderness Elk hunt where the outfitter has patterned the game, procured the horses and pack animals, tends the fire in the tent stove, cooks the meals and takes care of getting the animal out after the shot, while the "hunter" enjoys a celebratory drink for pullin' the trigger.
High fences and outfitters assure the shooter that game will be there, and the opportunity to "harvest" an animal will present itself. All the "hunter" is responsible for is the shot. Again....makes it a shoot as opposed to a hunt. As for High Fences keeping animals out as opposed to keeping them in.....only folks you are foolin' are yourself.
That said, I have no problems with folks that use outfitters or hunt high fence ranches. I regularly train my bird dogs on released birds at the local game preserve. Even tho the fields are hundreds of acres of cover that rivals the best found in the Dakotas, I still have a hard time when someone calls it a hunt. But it's legal and it's fun, even if it's just a shoot. It also gives one the opportunity to pursue game that they may not be able to otherwise. Many take pictures of the birds beside them and their dogs to show off to their friends. I generally decline to be included, but don't mind them doing so. Again, as long as it's legal, the kill ethical and quick, it's no different than a real hunt, other than the effort it took to get the shot and the knowledge that the birds are there. Again, a shoot as opposed to a real hunt. Color a Spade red or a Diamond black and in cards, they're still a Spade or a Diamond. But take the "hunt" out of the pursuit of an animal and it is no longer a "hunt".
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Buck,
If you think a pack in wilderness guided elk hunt is a shoot and not hunt I think you are misinformed. Having been one of those guides I can promise you that plenty of folks go home without an elk. Just because somebody else set camp and heats your beans for you doesn't make the hunting magically any easier or make the elk get stupid.
If you think a pack in wilderness guided elk hunt is a shoot and not hunt I think you are misinformed. Having been one of those guides I can promise you that plenty of folks go home without an elk. Just because somebody else set camp and heats your beans for you doesn't make the hunting magically any easier or make the elk get stupid.
buck460XVR
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Really? Than why would anyone other than non-residents in Alaska(that are required to) hire a guide if there were no advantages? What kind of guide worth his beans could not offer any advantage over a non-guided hunt? What is the client paying for.......companionship? If a client pays you to heat his beans, set up camp and find the game it is because they either can't or don't want to do it themselves. Thus, paying you makes it easier......even tho there is nuttin' magic about it. If they come home empty is is because either they failed to make the shot.....or you failed to put them on game. Either way, it still makes them just a shooter. I've seen folks come home empty after releasing 20 roosters in a 40 acres patch of Sorghum. Doesn't mean it was a tough hunt. Next group thru gets that 20 on top of their 20 doesn't mean the first 20 birds got stupid.....or does it?
As I said, I have no problem with folks using either high fence ranches or hunting guides. I do have a problem when they show off their trophies after such and want others to embellish them as great hunters when all they had to do was pull the trigger.
ZeroJunk
Member
Misinformed ? I have been going in with an outfitter on wilderness hunts for going on 30 years. The problem is getting in 20 miles for 10 days and back out when motorized vehicles are illegal. The "guides" as he calls them weren't born when I first started hunting there. And, they are not seasoned hunters by any stretch. Yes, they can pack your stuff in, have a good camp, cook, etc. But, the original outfitter I hunted with gave you a horse and turned you loose. We bridled, saddled, and came and went as we saw fit. I know the place like the back of my hand. I figured that was the way of things until he passed away. The new outfitter breed is afraid to even let you bridle a horse. Liability, I assume.
Come on down to Alabama and "shoot" deer in a 1,000 acre enclosure. Some places you can see 2-300 yards. It is an all day event to walk the perimeter, so I'm told because I don't plan to walk it, and takes several hours on horseback or ATV.
Just because you use a guide, outfitter, or any aid in helping you hunt doesn't make it less of a hunt. I drive a truck on my farm and use four wheelers to herd cattle rather than riding horses but that doesn't mean it's not cattle ranching.
My only issue with fenced hunting would be the "canned hunts" where the animal, any kind, is in a small enclosure and all you are doing is shooting the animal you pick out. I have seen this done with Bison and have seen people congratulating each other on the shot. I have also seen people shoot Bison in a corral, get on a tractor, and bring out the animal for processing but they didn't call it a hunt or give high fives. They were killing an animal solely for the meat so that is a "shoot".
Just because you use a guide, outfitter, or any aid in helping you hunt doesn't make it less of a hunt. I drive a truck on my farm and use four wheelers to herd cattle rather than riding horses but that doesn't mean it's not cattle ranching.
My only issue with fenced hunting would be the "canned hunts" where the animal, any kind, is in a small enclosure and all you are doing is shooting the animal you pick out. I have seen this done with Bison and have seen people congratulating each other on the shot. I have also seen people shoot Bison in a corral, get on a tractor, and bring out the animal for processing but they didn't call it a hunt or give high fives. They were killing an animal solely for the meat so that is a "shoot".
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I figure that the outfitter does the camping and the hunters do the hunting. It's time-consuming to cook meals, wash dishes and do all the chores for a several-day camp in the back country. Somebody's gotta do all that, and if I'm hunting, I can't. So, I'd hire somebody to give me the free time to actually hunt.
A guiding guide is a very good thing when hunting dangerous critters, but that's a totally different deal. I'd have zero interest in going solo for big bears or the big African critters.
A guiding guide is a very good thing when hunting dangerous critters, but that's a totally different deal. I'd have zero interest in going solo for big bears or the big African critters.
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You forgot about Wyoming. In Wyoming it is required that a non resident use a guide in a wilderness area in Wyoming too. And in Alaska a non resident is only required to hire a guide if they are hunting grizzly/brown Bear and sheep or goats. Canada requires all non resident big game hunters to use a guide. The main reason those places require a guide are two fold. First it cuts way down on search and rescue/body recovery expenses and second it cuts way down on illegal/sloppy hunting way back in remote areas where no one is watching.
Sure a guides job is to get you back into a good area and put you on an animal if he can. But there are no guarantees on a free range wilderness hunt. I know guys who have blown multiple thousands of dollars on various guided hunts such as sheep, elk, moose, brown bear, grizzly, mt lion, cape buffalo and elephant you name it and come home empty handed. Just because some outfitter supplied pack horses and set up camp does not mean that the guided hunter doesn't have to get off his buttock and huff it up the mountain if he or she wants to have a shot getting their critter.
Is it more convenient and less time consuming to use a guide and not have to set camp and do your own cooking? Sure it is, but that doesn't make it a shoot rather than a hunt. How about a backpack, spike camped, guided hunt for sheep in the Alaska Range? You will have a guide as a non resident but he isn't going to carry you or your 70Lb pack up the mountain for you or magically make a ram appear in front of your scope. You'd better be in shape and able to shoot if you want to score on a deal like that.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
buck460XVR said:
That's really all you needed to say to tell us that you don't know what you are talking about.
Our fence gets breached several times a year due to flooding. Our deer don't leave. Period. The natives come flooding in, which is quite the pain. But our deer? They stay put. Deer know when they have a good thing with easy food and low predator pressure.
ZeroJunk
Member
Well, I was going to use a stronger term than misinformed. The whole post is about hunting with outfitters and I have hunted with several. The guides are usually kids from the area. Normally you have the outfitter who knows his stuff and maybe one guide who does. The rest are area kids, friends of the family, etc. trying to make a little cash. And, you usually have six or eight hunters. So, the notion Buck has that these guides are going to lead you to a shot is just not the case. It is little more than if you want to go sit by yourself or with somebody. Or, ride the trails and glass the grass with somebody or by yourself. And, if you are bow hunting you really don't want them around.
One gentleman who hunted with me for five years never got a shot. One who hunted for ten years killed one elk. Another hunted two years and killed a nice bull both years. It is hunting.
The notion that if you have an outfitter you are just shooting is preposterous.
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