Is it actual ignorance or malicious deceit?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

camslam

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
741
Location
Chilling Out in the Valley of The Sun
It seems like every single week, sometimes daily, there are columns, articles, cartoons, and TV segments that are anti-gun.

After reading the latest tripe from the mayor of Atlanta, I have to ask the following question in regards to the misinformation the anti's put out there.

-Is it actual ignorance of the facts and truths regarding the ownership and use of guns in this country and world.

-OR-

-Is it malicious deceit that they knowingly engage in and if so, for what purpose?

I get so tired of reading or hearing outright lies and inaccurate information put forth by all of these people. I say to myself they can't be that stupid, because they would at least check their facts before putting out the misinformation they do, but still almost every single anti-gun thing I read or hear is filled with inaccuracies.

I'm sure we can all think of examples of this, probably one of the more famous is Carolyn McCarthy on the Tucker Carlson show. Seriously, this is a woman who has dedicated her life to getting rid of guns and she has no idea what she is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

I just can't seem to figure out if it is just simple fear of guns that drives these people or if there is some bigger agenda pushing all of this activity that is anti-gun.
 
I tend to believe it is willful ignorance.

I have encountered far too many people that, when given a fact contrary to their beliefs, simply say "Well, I don't believe that."

(Many) People no longer make intellectual decisions based on facts. They make decisions based on what feels like it should be right: Truth be damned.

Edit: Post number 777! Glad I was talking about truth, quite appropriate.
 
I think I can sum it up like this:

Notions of integrity, and even simple truth or falsehood, are for the little people.

When people like Michael Bloomberg get up in the morning, they don't ask if they're right or wrong, telling the truth or lying. They ask what they want, and what to say that might get other people to go along with them and feed them power, money or whatever they want.

A dishonest salesman, a con man, or a politician, it doesn't matter. Have you listened to anything that went on in the primaries, especially the Democratic primary that went on for long enough to break through the facade a bit? The idea that there is some objective reality, or that there is some real difference between truth and a lie, does not appear to even occur to people like, for example, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.
 
Just conjecture, but I will toss out a few ideas:

1. Lived too long in the ivory tower of academia; and/or,
2. Read too much from those who did #1; and/or,
3. Are out of touch with the real world; and/or,
4. Are drunk with power; and/or,
5. Just regurgitating what their liberal mentors/professors regurgitated; and/or,
6. Hate guns and are afraid of those who privately have them; and/or,
7. Have a worldview created through a socialist or Marxist filter; and/or,
8. Love their own freedom but not that of others; and/or,
9. Think they are smart and everyone else is ignorant; and
10. A little bit of all the previous nine.


ETA: (No offense to the left leaning members on Number 5, but you have to admit that most, if not all, gun grabbers are on your side of the political spectrum.)
 
I think it is a mixture of both. The ignorance of "the masses" in regards to an issue and the twisting of the facts by the media to help propagate and build misconceptions of the law, the nature of weapons at issue and so on.
 
I think of them like my health teacher. He would go on and on spewing out lies and inaccuracies and when I would confront him with facts and first hand experience, he would simply say, "Thats not what my information says".
 
I'm not looking to put forth conspiracy theories on this, especially with the sheer number of unrelated individuals that write, draw, or speak anti-gun views. But you have to wonder what fuels all of this anti-gun agenda and what is to profit from doing so? They know gun control doesn't reduce crime or murder, they know they can't get rid of guns completely, so what is the motivation?

I think my problem is I have hard time wrapping my head around the idea that THIS MANY people are that stupid.

I wonder why there is no accountability for the lies that are put forth. And arguing with these people that are anti, it doesn't matter if you put forth statistics from the FBI, the CDC, or any other non-partisan entity, they do exhibit willful ignorance as has been mentioned.

I guess my real question is where is the accountability for our politicians, news media, and others when it comes to gun rights and the facts associated with them.
 
I guess my real question is where is the accountability for our politicians, news media, and others when it comes to gun rights and the facts associated with them.
Click to expand...

Where is it when it comes to economics, drug policy, trade, energy policy, or anything else?

People "concerned about the economy" want to vote for a President who says he'd do a good number of things that are known to damage the economy?
 
I think that the ringleaders of these lies do have a malicious agenda. The peons below (journalists and local politicians) are the ones who are duped and misinformed.

Gun control is all about controlling the population and taking away their abilities to actually enact change if need be. The power-hungry people which run the show want all the control that they can get. Civilian gun ownership severely compromises that agenda.
 
Not just ignorance. Sometimes its misunderstanding. Or being misled.

It's hard to accept, but there is ignorance or misunderstanding on all sides of every issue, even our own. These threads are full of members posting a statement or opinion on legal matters, only to have their butts straightened out by other members. Even we gun guys cannot always agree on all points salient to gun ownership, gun rights, gun handling, gun safety, and so forth.

In fact, very few political issues in America are binary (i.e., two distinct opposing sides with no room for middle ground nor alternate points of view). The course of thought runs the entire spectrum.

If you think all gun guys agree on the 'truth', go to any forum and ask about Glock vs. 1911. Then stand back and watch.
 
I think it's mostly ignorance.

My girlfriend's mother is a lesbian lawyer who had never shot a gun. This past weekend we went to Gay Pride in Flagstaff with the Pink Pistols and she shot a handgun for the first time. Before she was really nervous about my hobby and guns in general, but now she really enjoys it and is planning on driving two hours south once a month to shoot with the Pink Pistol chapter here.

There are a lot of people who's only experience with guns is from the nightly news. They don't understand how they work and only see them as tools which enable some people to do very awful things. It's really difficult to filter out fact from fiction without any first hand experience. Thankfully most people are concerned about the accuracy of their beliefs. A Ruger 10/22 and MkII pistol with a brick of ammo is a $400 investment that will introduce many people, adults and kids alike, to the idea that there are legitimate recreational reasons to owning guns. The rest will follow gradually.

It's much easier and more effective to invite someone who is anti-gun to go shooting than to rehash old arguments.
 
Armedbear: I hear EXACTLY what you are saying in regards to the myriad of issues we are faced with.

There is no accountablility with many of those issues, but there are clearly people that profit from that, so I can see the motivation for lack of accountability and malicious deceit.

But who really profits from the anti-gun movement? Where is the motivation for all of the lies and ignorance? Is it just from a simple fear of guns instilled at a young age and honed over a lifetime of hearing how bad guns are?

I think that is why I really wonder if it is ignorance or malicious deceit that fuels these lies and agenda.
 
I don't know where to locate the literal quote off the top of my head, but the Bradys have said that they must use every means necessary to eliminate guns, up to and including dishonesty.

They prey upon the ignorant and the apathetic. Remember, Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie enough times, it becomes the truth." We are WAY behind them in the propaganda game, but I think we are catching up.
 
I guess my real question is where is the accountability for our politicians, news media, and others when it comes to gun rights and the facts associated with them.
Click to expand...

It is supposed to happen the first Tuesday in November every two and four years, and it is supposed to happen in countless city council meetings and school board meetings. BUT it does not happen.

Most citizens do not participate in the marketplace of ideas; therefore, the most vocal of those that do, get heard. Then their voice, no matter how small a percentage it may be in actuality, becomes the voice of America.

Most people are too busy just treading water, i.e., just staying alive and going through the motions of life. Most people are too timid to really rock the boat. Oh, some don't mind creating a few small waves, but if you do more than that, you're labeled a zealot, fanatic or extremist.

I guess it boils down to public participation. When is the last time you attended a city council meeting? For me, it has been too long--about two years. I have no children, so I have never been to a school board meeting. So, in a sense, I am part of the problem.
 
If you think all gun guys agree on the 'truth', go to any forum and ask about Glock vs. 1911. Then stand back and watch.
Click to expand...

But that is opinion or preference--not truth. Truth, if you will admit to there being an absolute truth, will be true whether you ever existed or not.
 
Ignorance can easily be corrected or admitted to

Malicious deceit will not get you any apology or intent to correct their mistake. I tend to think that the vast majority of them do it because they know they will not be held accountable for breaking the laws that the rest of us are made to adhere to.
 
...

I believe it is a combination of BOTH..

Politics that support anti-gun ownership via Newspapers, TV news, etc., and those that write about incidents that rather than write "the facts" they lean heavily on writing a story that both, leans in favor of anti-gun, and that sensationalizes the story, making it more provoking for the reader or viewer..

Kinda like many airplane crashes, they say, a Cessna crashed, when in fact it was a Mooney or Piper (high-wing vs low wing) and many times they say "single engine" when in fact, the pictures clearly show it was a twin-engine, let alone report a twin-engine plane crashed when it shows it was a jet..

So, ignorance of the reporter, writer, and viewer, without knowledge of guns or type planes, just accept what they read or see, along with, the supporting politics of any newspaper or TV news stations..

Dog bites man, no big story.. Man bites Dog.. that's the story they want, are looking for, or if they can, twist "the facts" enough to make it drawing to the eye or ear.. ~ News at 10pm ~ :eek:


Ls
 
Quote:
If you think all gun guys agree on the 'truth', go to any forum and ask about Glock vs. 1911. Then stand back and watch.

But that is opinion or preference--not truth. Truth, if you will admit to there being an absolute truth, will be true whether you ever existed or not.
Click to expand...

See this is what I'm talking about. Glock vs. 1911 isn't something the anti's ever talk about or really care about. Plus it is a completely subjective argument based on nothing more than personal opinion.

But when you talk about gun issues, there are truths that cannot be argued.
Such as:

-Gun control has not worked anywhere at any time.
-CWP holders are among the most law abiding citizens.
-In states with higher levels of CWP's, there is a corresponding lower level of crime.
-Cities and states with the most restrictive gun controls have the highest rates of different crimes.
-School or public shootings where someone was armed ended with much less bloodshed than those where no person was armed to offer defense.
-Criminals admit that armed victims make them change their strategy.
-Criminals admit that they do not get their guns from gun shows.
-Criminals admit that gun laws do nothing to stop them from getting guns.

The list could go on and on and on and on showing one FACT after another that has been documented, researched, and proven to be true.

But the anti's continue to dismiss these facts and outright lie about them. Once again my question is why? Fear, ability to profit from it, etc....

I can see why some of the police chiefs in big cities are totally anti-gun, if it was up to citizens to defend themselves and the chief of police was saying, "yep, you need to arm yourself because we can't protect you", you have to wonder what his chances of successfully remaining in his job would be. But many of these other types of people with the same agenda, to me it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to putting out the lies they do.
 
I think I can sum it up like this:

Notions of integrity, and even simple truth or falsehood, are for the little people.

When people like Michael Bloomberg get up in the morning, they don't ask if they're right or wrong, telling the truth or lying. They ask what they want, and what to say that might get other people to go along with them and feed them power, money or whatever they want.

A dishonest salesman, a con man, or a politician, it doesn't matter. Have you listened to anything that went on in the primaries, especially the Democratic primary that went on for long enough to break through the facade a bit? The idea that there is some objective reality, or that there is some real difference between truth and a lie, does not appear to even occur to people like, for example, Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...

Armed Bear has it right, politicians don't think abut right, wrong, truth, or justice. They only care about doing what is best for themselves. (It's not just the libs either, I distinctly remember McCain throwing Hitler's name around for no real reason during a debate with Ron Paul.) Some know it is a lie, some are just doing what the people who pay them tell them to do, some are truely ignorant, and may actually believe they are helping people. (But I'd be willing to bet that last group is also the smallest...)

Also, the benefit is that once they elimnate guns, they can pretty much do whatever they want. If you think the government does some weird, unjust stuff now, imagine what they would do if they knew nobody had the means to stop them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

J
  • Locked
First HD gun phenomenon
Replies
20
Views
2K
javacodeman
J
H
  • Locked
Great column on Firearms Ignorance and Cheney Shooting coverage
Replies
16
Views
1K
Waitone
W
G
  • Locked
It's not "just a movie" or "just entertainment" - it is powerful propaganda
2 3 4 5
Replies
110
Views
4K
notorious
N
N
  • Locked
  • Poll
What Needs to Be Said
Replies
1
Views
295
Foreign Devil
F
2
  • Locked
AWB explanation for the ignorant
Replies
13
Views
795
2nd Amendment
2
Back
Top