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It's not "just a movie" or "just entertainment" - it is powerful propaganda

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Golden Hound, Dec 23, 2008.

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  1. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    One of the biggest mistakes that I see on this forum is people saying the following, or some variation thereof, with regard to some anti-gun message in a film or television show:

    "It's just a movie, so it doesn't matter."

    I touched on this same issue, although in a different way, in the thread about Henry Rollins. There, people argued that Rollins's opinion on guns was not relevant because he's "just" an entertainer. I contended that the opinion of an entertainer carries a tremendous amount of weight because of all of the fans of that entertainer who are going to be influenced by it.

    The same concept applies to movies. And television, and cartoons. The thread about the Simpsons had a number of people saying that the anti-gun messages in Family Guy, The Simpsons, American Dad and other shows don't matter because "they're just cartoons."

    Anyone who thinks this way is missing the point, big time. What do you think 99.9% of American kids and teenagers spend their time watching on TV? Do you think they're watching Fox News or CSPAN? No, they're watching The Simpsons and Family Guy. Millions of viewers are getting their information from these shows, even if they're "just" cartoons. The cartoons in question incorporate enough real-life ideology that if someone knows NOTHING about guns, and they hear Lisa Simpson or that dog on Family Guy say that most gun owners end up shooting themselves, or some other completely absurd and insane piece of anti propaganda, then this is the "fact" that they are going to come away with. If the overall message about guns that they get is "guns are bad," it doesn't matter WHERE that message is coming from as long as it's getting through their heads. It makes no difference whether the message is coming from a cartoon or a serious drama. The fact of the matter is, that people in America spend their lives glued to the television and WHAT COMES OUT OF THAT TELEVISION, GOES INTO THEIR BRAINS. And that is all there is to it.

    The phrase "pop culture" is deceptively innocuous-sounding. The truth is that "pop culture" has the potential to be EXTREMELY powerful propaganda. Look at what happened with the presidential election this year. Barack Obama is going to be our president because he was marketable as a pop culture icon, and John McCain was not. We made the mistake of thinking that these perceptions didn't matter, fielding an unelectable candidate with a vice-presidential running mate who was totally lampooned by the media, and now look what we've got. We're going to be paying for that mistake, big time. All of this "panic buying," the fact that a stamped WASR now costs a thousand dollars - this would never have happened if Obama hadn't gotten elected, and THAT would never have happened if pop culture was on OUR side instead of THEIR side.

    You think movies and TV don't matter? Look at how the antis paint this terrible picture of "assault weapons." Their perceptions are obviously drawn entirely from shootouts in movies and TV shows. They're clearly not getting their information from reality, since reality is on OUR side - reality shows that so-called assault weapons account for almost no gun crime - so where are they getting it if they're not getting it from reality? They're getting it from movies. All of this crap about cop-killer bullets and the infamous "Glock 7" - from movies. From TV shows.

    You think movies don't matter? Next time you're in a movie theater and you see some scene where some female victim pulls out a gun, and the gun either jams or is taken away from her - reinforcing the message that a gun is not an effective tool for self-defense, which is as far-removed from reality as saying that the earth is flat - and take note of all the people in the theater. Chances are there are a lot of them in there with you. How many of those people do you think are THR members? Unless there is a really uncanny coincidence, chances are NONE of them. That means that every single person in that theater, most likely, beside you, of course, is going to come away from that movie with the idea that a gun is not an effective tool for self-defense for the average person, and that the only people who can be trusted with them are police or "heroes."

    You don't think cartoons matter? Read about the phenomenon of the South Park Republican. "A term that was circulated in weblogs and articles on the Internet circa 2001 and 2002, to describe what authors claimed as a "new wave" of young adults and teenagers who hold political beliefs that are, in general, aligned with those that seem to underpin gags and storylines in the popular television cartoon." That is correct, people - a political movement that is based on a cartoon. So much for the idea that "mere cartoons" don't hold any weight for our cause.

    Seriously, folks. If our movement is going to go anywhere - if this country is going to maintain our second amendment freedom instead of going the way of socialist Europe - we need to do two things. We need to try to get our message promoted in pop culture entertainment. And we need to vigorously fight against anti-gun propaganda in pop culture. Every time any form of pop culture entertainment promotes an anti-gun message - be it in a cartoon, a comedy, an action movie or a television show - we need to denounce it.

    "It's just entertainment" is no longer an excuse.
     
  2. seale

    seale member

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    Could not agree more.
     
  3. Doc_Jude

    Doc_Jude Member

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    Excellent post. Sticky This!!! :)
     
  4. Sinixstar

    Sinixstar member

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    it's a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Problem is that most people cannot see beyond their own experience.

    Most of the folk here (at least a higher percentage of folk here compared to the general population) are not influenced in the least by pop culture and as such assume everyone else is just as unaffected.

    The reality is that the majority of people ARE heavily influenced by media, and for too long we have ceded that power to the left ... to the antis ... to a handful of people in Hollywood and New York that control much of what goes on in pop culture.

    We have relegated ourselves to the sidelines thus making ourselves and our position irrelevant because we don't see the relevance of pop culture.

    And maybe this means that the masses are a bunch of idiots and we shouldn't care what they think since their mush-brains are controlled by mass media and pop culture but the truth is it is US that suffer because of the crap that's poured into peoples' heads because these mush-brains VOTE based on what they see on the TV!

    If WE had more control over how the issue of firearms is presented ... if we had more allies "inside the beast" then we wouldn't have to worry about stocking up on AR-15s and full capacity magazines just because a Democrat gets elected.


    There are people "inside the beast" that are trying to push the entertainment media into the right direction. Andrew Breitbart is one and his coming site should be a hub for folk trying to change media (John Nolte, his "Editor in Chief" has a great blog here for the time being).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2008
  6. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    GH,

    I can't add anything to your post. You said it all.
     
  7. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    You are right. If it wasn't for the movies, the bad guys would not know how to shoot so poorly.
     
  8. carlrodd

    carlrodd Member

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    it's a conspiracy!!!!!!!!! -sinixstar


    great post sinixstar. you're a genius.

    i actually would say it IS a conspiracy, just as it was described in the OP. there is a fairly organized, deliberate attempt on the part of much of the entertainment industry to demonize not only guns, but the whole concept of self-preservation. violence is so frequently painted as being "never the right choice".
     
  9. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Yes, and often those who portray "violence is never the right choice" in movies are also pinhead idiots who are shown to suffer as a result of their poor rationale.

    Additionally, so many movies arrive at the final conclusion that guns were necessary to put down the evil threats and demonstrate that throughout the movie and usually (especially) in the critical climax of the movie.

    Is it also a conspiracy through widespread propaganda to show how effectively guns can be used to thwart the bad guys?
     
  10. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    If you let TV (childcare) raise your children you get what comes out of the idiot box.
     
  11. Apple a Day

    Apple a Day Member

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    GH, well said.
    As a teacher I can tell you from years of experience that
    1) Parents DO let the idiot box babysit/educate their kids. I'm not talking about the minority any more, either.
    2) Television shows absolutely DO form the 'knowledge base' for today's kids. It's what they know. Before cable TV and the Internet we used to go outside and play in the woods so real world experience informed us old crotchety farts. Today kids sit inside and plug themselves into an electronic device. Everything's all wrapped up in slick, sexy packaging for the kids to consume. They go to school and talk about it so it's what they have in common, it's the common foundation on which they communicate in this relationships-are-all-important generation. It's what they do so it's what they know.
     
  12. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    I agree with the observations, but not the idea that we must or should sit back and take it.

    Theater movies: Simply don't go, and use the Internet to make sure others of a like mind know about it. Then send a letter to the movie studio and explain why you and others are boycotting the show.

    DVD sales: Don't buy if the content is anti-gun.

    Anti-gun movies or shows on television: Watch, and make a list of the advertisers. They usually aren't anti-gun, and just bought time to sell they're product or service. They want you to be in a happy mood, not outraged - and if they get enough mail to indicate that the show upset potential customers the T.V. Network will hear from them. Of course most of the networks and show producers are left-wing and anti, but if money is involved they will back off. I've seen it happen.

    Never forget that while most of the entertainment industry is made up of left-wing / anti-gun types they are still in the business to make money - so hit 'um in the pocketbook where they will feel it.
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Duh, been going on for years. Yes, it does matter because it influences people, just as it was intended.

    Absolutely they are, or they would never have shows with guns in them they might influence people to want to shoot, but they do because it makes them millions.
     
  14. heavyshooter

    heavyshooter Member

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    I was watching "The Hunted" (Tommy Lee Jones, Benicio Del Toro) the other day. To all of the brethren here at THR, hear my plea - don't rent this movie! I could give you the list of reasons another time but I will mention one here. It epitomizes Hollywood's hatred of guns, while simultaneously showing their love of profit that is derived from violence. The main character hated guns, so he taught his men to kill with a knife. What the hell is that?!?:barf: First, if I am fighting with a knife it is because I ran out of bullets. In fact, if I am in a fight and all I have is a knife, my first instinct is to run.:D Second, the perceivable issue with a gun is that it causes deaths - at least that's what the opposers to guns would say; so why the hypocrisy of causing death with a knife? If you are going to hold true to your convictions, then we should be lobbying for knife ban laws. On that same note, how many actors have spoken out against guns while using them (ignorantly) to kill people in movies? Tom Cruise has one of the best quick shooting scenes of all time - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNPJ0fgWVY&feature=related - H&K should be proud.;) But he then speaks critically of gun ownership. It's a trip.
     
  15. AKGuy

    AKGuy Member

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    Barack Obama is going to be our president because he was marketable as a pop culture icon, and John McCain was not....um, okay. :scrutiny:But believing that to be the underlying truth won't help anyone understand the dynamics of our country's political evolution because it is NOT why Obama was elected...which, in turn, means that responses and strategies based on the premise that erroneous premise aren't likely to be helpful, useful, or effective when it comes to actually fixing/solving anything. :banghead:

    I agree that "entertainment products," whether they be movies, music, radio shows, etc, are indeed powerfully effective...but they are only effective to the extent that their various audiences are receptive. People tend to embrace ideas based on the degree to which those ideas are congruent with their own pre-existing ideas about things AND the degree to which people can see connections between their own concerns/ideas and the perceived ability of the messages to influence outcomes that those same people regard as helpful, favorable, etc.

    For example...millions of kids aren't running around carjacking, murdering, or even joining the military even though millions of kids play hour after hour of video games based solely on carjacking, shooting, killing, warfighting, etc. And the few who do act up/out are acting on something that was "already there" inside of them, something that was empowered by what they were doing/seeing/experiencing by way of the video game.

    Our lives are filled with examples of media influence upon us...but in order for the "light to come on," there has to be the switches and wiring "there" to begin with.

    It's perilously simplistic to blame media for things, and does nothing to really solve or get at the root causes of Topic A to put too much emphasis on the media and inadequate emphasis on the nature of the media's various audiences.

    Looking at it solely--or even primarily--as being a problem of the media and it's message(s) leads very quickly to fascist censorship. Whatever the prevailing power group disagrees with message-wise gets tossed into the bonfire. Surely we wouldn't be advocating that?

    No...we need to spent time understanding what it is that non-gun and anti-gun folks are coming from rather than simplistically and foolishly trying to squelch images/messages that we don't like, regardless of how (in)accurate we know or believe those images/messages to be.;)
     
  16. JWarren

    JWarren Member

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    Thank you for posting this, Golden Hound!

    I posted this on the "Homer Simpson" thread a few days ago. My thinking is on your lines.


    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5172430#post5172430




    -- John
     
  17. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Just two minutes from sanity.
    Assuming the OP is even correct on all counts, this thread still amounts to an impotent rant followed (mostly) by a bunch of +1's.
    Got any solutions? Got anything, in fact, but whining and bitching to offer? Sitting in a circle feeding off each other's complaints may feel good, but it offers no hope for improvement.
     
  18. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    What you have just said is just as impotent and useless as the rest of the thread, IF you don't offer some kind of a solution yourself. Which you haven't.

    I, in fact, DID propose a specific plan of action, which was right in the OP:

    Seems like the point went over your head.
     
  19. Kim

    Kim Member

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    Anyone who has read history knows Hollywood is propaganda of the lefty kind. Heck Commies back in the day purposely infiltrated the dang place.Alot of their progeny are still there along with the MSM and academia. Much less education and arts. They did well.
     
  20. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    This may be true on some levels but certainly in the past, Hollwood never had such an anti-gun agenda. I mean, in the days of John Wayne and Charlton Heston, you could still buy a rifle in a mail-order catalog from Sears or take it to school and put it in your locker or whatever, and schools had rifle teams, etc...the whole culture was more gun friendly in those days.
     
  21. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Member

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    While you bring up some good points, I think that the very nature of your awareness of gun-related politics primes you to notice the technical inaccuracies of the way guns are portrayed in entertainment. Guns are not the sole victim of wildly outlandish characterization in movies. Just about everything scientific or technical in nature is subject to massive exaggeration or fabrication. For example, have you seen the latest Die Hard? The retarded "plastic Glock invisible to X-Ray machines" line from Die Hard with a Vengeance is nothing compared to the role of computers in Live Free or Die Hard. While I can believe that some of the cases are due to deliberate malice on the part of the writers, I would also bet that much of it is ignorance or laziness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2008
  22. Golden Hound

    Golden Hound Member

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    This is definitely true and it's one of the things I hate most about movies. Specifically, the way every single computer, or any technology with a computer interface, in movies is constantly bleeping and blooping and making little R2-D2 noises all the time if someone is using it. Jeez, this is the year 2008, everyone and his dog has a computer and knows how it works - this constant beeping and bleeping and whirring and little "computer noises" might have fooled audiences who were watching The Fly in 1989, but now they're just totally stupid and pointless. Not to mention every computer in movies, especially a computer that controls a security system, having a ridiculous GUI (graphical user interface) that doesn't exist in real life - usually something with green text on a black background.
     
  23. Just Jim

    Just Jim Member

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    Back in the day:banghead: (god I am old) TheFCC would watch over our tv programs because they knew how powerful a media can be. They used to set standards like a womans bellybutton couldn't be shown during prime time. Or the goodguys (lawenforcement) allways had to win in the end.

    It all changed in the late 60s, early 70s. Socialst and commies came out of the woodwork and have turned our TVs into total crap unfit for our kids. They portray all normal actions of people like owning a gun for self defense as abnormal. Everything that conservatives hold respectful from the second amendment to religion and marriage has been trampled on.

    We get what we allow to happen and we deserve the seed we sow.

    jj
     
  24. The_Shootist

    The_Shootist Member

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    Nods

    Media influence is important. I almost bought an HK after watching Collateral.

    Then I realized they hate me 'cause I suck :eek:

    Seriously, the media "conspiracy" has a flip side too. I mean, have you ever watched a movie and thought "Yeah, that will be my next purchase."?
     
  25. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Member

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    Sure didn't. Here's the flaw in your "plan": coming here_or to similar places_to "denounce" anti-gun movies/celebrities/authors/et. al. is indistinguishable from impotent ranting. The +1's and "F*** yeah!" posts you collect here may make you feel like you are doing something, but you aren't. The people here largely already agree with you. What did you have in mind that would effect either the antis themselves or the great mass of people who just don't care about guns one way or the other? Fiery rhetoric and heartfelt oratory is a foot deep on the ground at every gunboard. Simply adding to that does nothing to advance your cause.
     
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