It's not "just a movie" or "just entertainment" - it is powerful propaganda

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Assuming the OP is even correct on all counts, this thread still amounts to an impotent rant followed (mostly) by a bunch of +1's.
Got any solutions? Got anything, in fact, but whining and bitching to offer? Sitting in a circle feeding off each other's complaints may feel good, but it offers no hope for improvement.


Joe Demko,

While I do appreciate your point in that GH may be preaching to the choir, I want to point out 3 things.

1) Not everyone on THR is going to +1 this thread. After posting a criticism about CSI Miami, I received several posts that told me to lighten up. "It's just television." The OP is, at the very least, questioning this position among THR members.

2) The thread may not be educating all, but it may be stimulating thought. Sometimes you have to remind your peers that they are in fact you peers. The OP may be reminding its readers of a very important point. Some readers may have read it and said, "Oh Yeah, our culture is molded by television. I have always known that but I have been ignoring it. Maybe I should do something????????"

3) There is nothing more therapeutic than a good rant every now and then. :D

Heavy
 
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well, one of my best friends is going to buy a 9mm just because of hearing about them so much in RAP MUSIC. HA, imagine that!

And lets not forget about the original brainwasher THE SMURFS which has turned my generation into a bunch of mindless antisemitic commies:rolleyes:. (I'll always love that show btw)

So don't be the same people that blame T.V., Video Games and Rap/Dark Music for the problems in society.
 
Why does it seem that some of you on here are missing the entire point of Golden Hound's post? There are plenty of snide remarks being made about people being influenced by media but the fact is and continues to be that this is true. You can deny it to the apocalypse but it is the truth. Why do we have so many youtube videos of gun owners dual-wielding pistols knowing that it is pointless? I can gurantee because they saw it on TV or in a movie and thought that it might be cool to try.

The medical show analogy was very relevant to the discussion. I WOULD like to think that a show depicting life or death operations would show the correct methods for using equipment, CPR, etc. How long will it be before someone gets sued for not properly saving someone's life? Defense: "Well, they did it like that on TV". Regardless if the defense is/sounds dumb the point is that the person was INFLUENCED. As somebody previously mentioned, many courtrooms are having to deal with the "CSI Effect" on forensic evidence. Many people expect things to be done quickly like they are on CSI. All the evidence will be found, everything will be figured out, and the suspect will be arrested within an hour. This is very real. Why? People are INFLUENCED by the media. The "CSI Effect" is not a joke, it is reality brought on by the INFLUENCE of media.

I have actually heard people say, in a half joking manner, that they could get away with a crime because they saw it on CSI. :banghead: Stupid as it sounds, it is real. The influence is real. People remember and repeat what they see or hear from the media. I have heard plenty of people, in gunshops mind you, say things like "Yeah, that shotgun will blow them clean off their feet and send em flying through the air". "All AR's are fully automatic". Blah, blah, blah. The problem is, people DO get a lot of their information, whether factual or otherwise, from TV shows and movies. If you do not know about guns from a first person perspective, you WILL be influenced by the negative information. I have spoken to A LOT of people who believe that hollowpoints are illegal. Where did they get this information from? That's right TV shows and movies. I have spoekn to A LOT of people who believe that hollowpoints are made to go through and "Blow away your back/chest" upon exit. And I have had to tell them that hollowpoints are made to STAY in the body.

In any event, you can keep believing that media does not influence people, but for our cause that is a very dangerous belief to have. Make all the jokes and sarcastic remarks that you want to make but it is the truth. By the way, how many PRO-GUN cartoons have you seen for young people?
 
And the pretense is finally dropped. "You're stupid and I'm not". Let me know how that works out for you fellows. :cool:
 
I cannot help but have a martyr moment right now. :) If I had initiated a thread that resulted in some of these exchanges, the moderator would have locked it long ago – Merry Christmas from THR. :) Since he has not locked it I’ll jump in.

.38 Special and GH,

I think you both agree that television is often guilty of, shall we say, a misrepresentation of the facts. Your disagreement is the nature of those who are watching the misrepresentations. I am under the impression that .38 is arguing that those who are watching are smart enough to know that television is not a good source of truth (I intentionally avoided the word “stupid” because GH did not use it). GH is saying that those who are watching television - yes even the smart ones - are being influenced by what they see. They are being affected by the fictional truths of television. .38’s repeated response to this is essentially, those who think like GH are treating everyone as though they are stupid. Here is the settling question. Do we have evidence that television is affecting the worldviews of “smart people?” My experinces have made me suspicious. ;)

1) CSI definitely changed the jury selection process.

2) The kids in my neighborhood started holding their guns horizontally because they saw movie gangsters doing it.

3) I had a professor ask why it is necessary to wear ear protection at the shooting range. She asked because she saw the cops from Law and Order have a casual conversation at the shooting range and they were not wearing ear protection.

4) I recently heard a young lady shriek in fear when a box of ammo was dropped to the floor at the gun shop. She expected it to explode because “it happened when Calleigh Duquesne dropped a bullet.” Coincidentally, her embarrassed husband responded by saying, “You are too smart to believe what you see on television.”

5) I will tell you that it was a common belief at my high school (many moons ago) that Glocks are invisible to metal detectors because they are made of plastic.

6) Your semi-auto tactical rifle is considered a weapon of mass destruction because television has portrayed it as such.

Whether you agree with him or not, it seems to me that GH may be on to something. I believe that we can all agree that smart people can be ignorant (read "uninformed") and, therefore, easily misinformed. And television/movies are often a means of the misinformation.

BTW - With all due respect .38 Special, your repeated use of the word "stupid" is a Red Herring. GH is referring to the misinformation of television, not the IQ’s of the television watchers. I appreciate your point when you say that people are smart enough to avoid this, but you distract us from your point by imposing the word stupid on GH in spite of his attempts to reject it.

When it is all said and done, we have to admit that television and its philosophers (aka actors) are negatively affecting the firearms understanding in our country. But then again, so is the internet. HMMM, what you gone do about that GH?

Now that I have spoken, I am certain that the thread will be locked.:D:neener::D Seriously guys, lighten up, it's just a thread.

Heavy
 
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BTW - With all due respect .38 Special, your repeated use of the "word stupid" is a Red Herring. GH is referring to the misinformation of television, not the IQ’s of the television watchers. I appreciate your point when you say that people are smart enough to avoid this, but you distract us from your point by imposing the word stupid on GH in spite of his attempts to reject it.

Too late for that, mate. "You got a real stretch there telling me people are not stupid." The rest of this thread is just lipstick on a pig.
 
This thread was never intended as a rant. It was intended to try to fight what I believe is a common misconception.

To all who responded, thank you for your input. And I do mean everyone, even those who didn't agree.
 
The influence of pop culture is what is responsible for the next 4 years of our conservative downfall. Every celebrity type is out hyping up the liberal agenda and reaching out to everyone that gives them any time to do so. It is truly fighting a rising tide and it's almost hopeless because it is akin to brainwashing on a massive scale.

I just wonder what the true agenda is other than telling everyone to live as they say while the ruling class of rich liberals in politics and entertainment has their own set of rules.

Don't believe me, just run a total of how much our president-elect is spending on his nice little vacation from all his non-working. How many of the little people that identifies with him or fell for the liberal "we feel your pain" line can afford even 1 day at that resort? Meanwhile the Republicans are reviled for being successful because it is greedy for us and not for them.
 
Got any solutions for any of that, notorious? Impotent whining, bitching, and doomsaying has not made things one iota better for gun owners in this country.
Expanded ccw, the failure to resurrect the AWB,and arguably the Heller decision were all because people did something substantive and productive. Griping on a discussion board about liberals, the new POTUS, the stupidity of the common man, and the evil machinations of Hollywood is neither substantive nor productive. There is a forum here call Activism. Go there to see what at least a few people are doing to really protect and advance the rights of gun owners.
 
This is absolutely unbelievable. After three or four times of me going over and over this, explaining it as clearly as I can, people are still not understanding my point. My OP was not intended to be bitching and whining, it wasn't intended to just be a rant about Hollywood or Liberals - there is a specific point I am trying to make which ties into a direct issue that needs to be addressed right here in this section on this forum. How many times are you going to say "impotent whining," anyway? Why do you so desperately feel the need to try to undermine my point? I've been on other forums before and they have a word for what you're doing: "threadsh*tting."

Maybe if I gave a concrete example of how my point has PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS that actually tie into REAL LIFE - but oh wait, I already did that, with the example about pausing your kids' and his friends' DVD to correct some kind of anti-gun nonsense in a movie. Here's another one: you and several friends of yours who don't know anything about guns are watching a movie where a guy is violating the 4 rules. Say, he has his finger on the trigger. You can do one of two things:

1. If you're in the "entertainment doesn't matter" camp, you can sit there and say nothing.

2. If you're in MY camp, you can say, "hey, I just want you guys to know, that's not how you're supposed to hold a gun. You're never supposed to put your finger in the trigger guard until you're ready to fire." VOILA! MAGIC! You just taught a LESSON IN GUN SAFETY to some other people!

People are being so small-minded about my OP, it's absolutely dumbfounding for me to witness. It's not just an "impotent rant" if I'm offering specific ways in which to combat the gun-ignorance put forth by movies and television.

You still don't get it? If you still don't get it, after everything I've just explained, you're never going to get it.
 
Yeah, people love to have their movie viewing interrupted to hear what they will perceive as pedantic nit-picking from a geek. Imagine how grateful you would be if you were watching The Patriot (a movie generally loved by gun buffs) and somebody who loves colonial history paused the movie to tell you how it is all wrong for Mel Gibson to be wearing a shirt made from a fabric with a particular weave because that weave hadn't been invented during the period in which the movie is set. I'm sure you'd find it so frightfully interesting you'd be grateful for the interruption. I know I love to have my movies, especially ones at the theater, accompanied by a running commentary. Guns aren't as important or interesting to most people as they are to you. That is a fact. If you really believe they are going to treat everything they see on TV as factually correct, you need to work at a far more fundamental level than being the irritating gun-geek who talks during the movie. The real problem you are claiming exists is a fundamental lack of critical thinking skills on the part of the general populace. Correct that and the guns will take care of themselves.
 
I don't think the average person seeing an anti gun scene or three in a movie is going to automatically become anti. I DO believe that if they see the same message repeated endlessly, they WILL become anti. Repeat a message often and widely enough and it will be accepted as true. Thats what propaganda is all about.
 
The real problem you are claiming exists is a fundamental lack of critical thinking skills on the part of the general populace. Correct that and the guns will take care of themselves.

Give that man a cee-gar!
 
Didn't read the whole thing, didn't happen to see this point made, so:
Q: Why do companies spend so much $ on advertising?
A: Because it works


That alone should be proof enough that the impressions made in movies do matter.

Did anyone point out the difference in the numbers of deer hunters in the field in the years immediately before and after the movie Bambi was released?
 
You still don't get it? If you still don't get it, after everything I've just explained, you're never going to get it.

They are called socialized lemmings. It matters little if you speak the truth about guns it only matters that you said it and you can't be right because the socialist didn't say you were.

It isn't about the message but about the messenger, they can't allow an outsider to spout the truth. It just isn't done because it makes them wrong and they can't be wrong.

Untill, and it is comming with the depression, they are forced to the truth about guns and their own survival they will believe the media. After all, your not a star so why would anyone believe you.:banghead:

Your OP was well written and to the point.

jj
 
I don't know if this has been said or not, but who here has reminded their kids that it's "just" entertainment?

that it isnt okay for a quartet of fourth-grade kids to cuss

that it isnt okay to drive a stolen car and kill prostitutes for a high score

that the gangsta life will put your ass in prison or get you killed

that Keanu Reeves can't really dodge bullets

that war is not as cool as its four-star movie rating suggests

I'm just sayin'. If you can make someone figure out that, then I'm sure you can make someone with any sort of grasp of the political scope (and an ounce of mental maturity) understand that gun ownership/control is a political issue with two sides. Just like how the entertainment industry gets their chance to glamorize and make money off of sex, violence, and angsty we're-going-against-the-grain-here entertainment, then make sure you take the time to teach the other, more appropriate side to that kind of stuff.

Also, I'd say that the entertainment propoganda has backfired. Because of their portrayal of good guys always using guns to defeat the real bad guys, and how fun first-person shooters are, and considering how guns don't seem to be going away and that most people aren't shocked by guns (despite the anti's of course)... Maybe it really is "just" entertainment. Maybe.
 
Joe, what do you do for the cause other than rail against those who have issues?

I am a NRA Life Member and I have recruited a lot of new shooters into the sport recently with people who never thought they would enjoy it. I also dispel all the myths about guns everytime I can in discussions with friends. It's not on any grand level but if everyone of us just converts one or two a month, across the country, it could be something meaningful.

Heck, I even got a staunch liberal to come shooting with us and he now regularly attends our shoots. This is a guy who previously was anti-gun in every form and called every gun an assault weapon and wouldn't even use a non-firearm in self-defense. Now he's got a proud pic of himself holding a Desert Eagle 50cal. He's still a liberal but at least he's a pro-2nd amendment liberal.

I ask you again, what have you done, Joe, other than being antagonistic towards other gun owners?
 
In today's culture, people get their "history" from movies. That's what is dangerous. Hollywood says, "based on a true story" and people think that's the way it happened.
Movies like "Frost/Nixon" or "W" have an agenda, and that's all that matters to the producers. Even "The China Syndrome" was anti nuke power.
 
Sorry, internet connection had a hang-up and I didn't realize it tried to post 4 times when it kept going to a 404 page.

Was still a good point to make.

jj
 
Joe, what do you do for the cause other than rail against those who have issues?

I am an NRA Life Member; have been since Shrub's daddy was POTUS. I also regularly donate money to the NRA. My legislators are, no doubt, sick of hearing from me on gun issues.
Perhaps more importantly, I work at divorcing gun issues from the idiot liberal/conservative dichotomy. During the Clinton administration, we allowed the NRA to essentially become the National Republican Administration. They profitted by coming to just automatically expect the "gun vote" though all they could honestly claim was that they were marginally better than the Democrats on gun rights. See, most of the folks you run into in this life just aren't single-issue voters who can gag down the total package of what a candidate stands for just for the sake of his stance on a single issue. I know a good many Democrats who like guns quite well, but vote for the anti-gun party because too many other things about the Republican party turn them away. So I make it a point to take Liberals, Democrats, Greens, and all the others that Conservatives love to hate to the shooting range. I have made gifts of firearms to several formerly anti-gun people who became enthusiasts under my tutelage. My goal is to, eventually, take gun rights away from both political parties as a political tool. Ideally, both parties will learn to leave the issue the hell alone, unless they are planning to make the laws less restrictive.
Further, I work at teaching all my students critical thinking skills. I push no particular political agenda. Nor do I address guns specifically. My goal is to give them the tools to make their own, informed decisions; not to tell them what that decision should be.
Whether you think that is "enough" or even worthwhile, I submit that it is more substantive and more effective than fulminating on message boards for an audience of people who already agree with you.
 
An otherwise forgettable movie "The Sleeping Dictionary" is a good example of retarded but believable propaganda against defensive uses of guns. The heroine is given a Webley for self-defense without even the bebefit of an explanation of how it works. She fires at the villain from close range and wings him just enough to get noticed. Then she has five misfires in a row.

Realistic? Heck, no! Believable to the uninitiated? Yes.

Much the same in the latest version of Four Feathers. A British officer has a Kaboom with a Martini rifle which blinds him. The location of the pyrotechnicals relative to the rifle was unrealistic and the entire concept far-fetched...but it made for more drama than blindness due to overexposure to sun and brilliant sand, as in the book.

What can we do? We can point out these unrealistic aspects to others. We can also create media which would more realitically show how arms work and characters who embody their ethical use.
 
Thank you, Oleg...it's always great to hear from you (although I'm used to seeing you on the other forum.)
 
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