Is it crazy not to buy assault weapons now?

[BSA1]

"sleeper" .223 choices?

What are good lower priced semi-auto "sleepers" in .223 out there?

 

[RobNDenver]

No offense, but you are part of the problem. Repeating maketeting terms developed by anti gun rights groups is unacceptable as a gun owner.
Do you want to get a jump on blowing lots of cash on guns that are not needed, but purchased out of fear and sold at a loss like folks did during the last election. Obama has passed more pro-gun legislation that either of the previous two republicans. You can carry in state parks, and amtrak. Nevermind reality, the sky is falling buy em' up.

Hunter, Thanks for the reality check. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. I agree that the Obama administration has been no barrier to gun rights, and has made it even easier for us out west to enjoy our National Parks without worry about how to stash our pistol or rifles when we visit. I have my one stop assault rifle, and my three WW2 Semiautos. . . Think I'm good for bang sticks, but I am always in the market for ammunition.

 

[Oceanbob]

I call semi auto rifles, Semi-Auto Rifles.

I call a Concealed Weapon Permit....a carry permit.

We need to change the terms from Media Fueled anti-gun slang.

There are no assault weapons. There are semi-auto rifles that have a certain look that appeals to military type collectors.


Shooting sports are fun.

 

[ants]

I'm in the same group as Ocean Bob.

I don't think I've ever used the term 'assault weapon' in my life (except just now).

I got AR, AK, CETME, bolt guns, 10/22, Glock, deer rifles, lever actions...
You get the point. I'm just a shooter from way back and call them what they are.

My friends and family picked up the same vocabulary from me.
And that's the solution.
And like we used to say in the 60's,
If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

 

[RatherNotSay]

Yep, and many a German Jew, never thought the Nazis would take control of Germany.

In this year, subject and over all relevance how does that make any point in the discussion.

Right now, assault weapons, as defined by the fed gov, are at an all time low price wise

What do you base that on??

From what I've seen the prices and gun value are going UP. Guns that were around $250 are not $450 like the ak. Even the ar-15s have gone up a little. What you are saying just plain makes no sense. In an economy where EVERYTHING is going up you expect gun prices to decrease? Especially to an "all time low?" Wow...You can't make this stuff up.

Granted there have been fluctuations but "All time low?" Pfftt....

I'll even go as far as saying that some distributors are taking advantage of the economy. I won't say which ones cause I don't want to start a vendor war but I saw a Glock 17 selling for $575 with 10 round mags and plain sights + Shipping. You can find that same firearm for $499 shipped elsewhere.

 

[Justin]

Obama has passed more pro-gun legislation that either of the previous two republicans. You can carry in state parks, and amtrak. Nevermind reality, the sky is falling buy em' up.

Clearly the blank slate still works, even this long after the election.

National Park Carry was an amendment attached to a credit reform bill that the Republicans didn't want passed. They figured that they could sink the credit reform bill by putting an amendment in it that expanded gun rights.

Turns out that Obama was more interested in passing credit reform than he was in dissing the second amendment.

Similarly, the change to the law regarding transporting guns on AmTrak was an amendment attached to an appropriations bill, and only addressed something that has been an issue since AmTrak put a "no guns" policy in place shortly after 9/11.

I have a hard time believing that Obama would have signed either of those things into law if they had come to his desk as bills rather than riders.

While both of those reforms are appreciated, let's not forget that the Obama administration sought to reinstate the assault weapon ban, and that just such a ban was part of his election campaign. (Link goes to PDF. I've also attached a copy of the PDF to this post.)

 

[Justin]

Guns that were around $250 are not $450 like the ak. Even the ar-15s have gone up a little. What you are saying just plain makes no sense. In an economy where EVERYTHING is going up you expect gun prices to decrease? Especially to an "all time low?" Wow...You can't make this stuff up.

I don't recall AKs going for less than ~$350 or so at any point in recent memory. I suppose it's possible that Century made some guns that they blew out for those prices, but I have a hard time believing that you could buy an AK for $250 on a regular basis from any store in the last decade.

Shortly after the AWB expired, I bought my first EBR with evil features. That gun ran me right around $700, and that was after doing the whole "order it wholesale, have it delivered to a friendly FFL" thing.

Currently, there are more than one make of AR-pattern rifle that goes for less than $700 retail, including the S&W M&P line.

Colt AR-pattern rifles are at an all-time low now, as well. I can't remember the last time you could buy a brand new Colt AR for under $1,000, yet some of their M4geries are going for under that.

Even top-tier guns are cheaper now than even a couple of years ago, and with the economy doing poorly, the secondary market is saturated with all kinds of rifles. All you have to do is lurk on state-based gun forms, or pick up a copy of the Thrifty Nickel. Sure, a lot of the guns have huge prices on them, but if those people want to sell those guns, they'll be willing to drop their prices.

 

[Lone_Sheep_Dog]

If you want an "assault weapon," then join the military or police. Civilians don't use "assault weapons." I guess civilian criminals could say they use "assault weapons" when they commit armed robbery or murder.

We use modern sporting rifles. Only anti-gun people use the term "assault weapon."

 

[RatherNotSay]

I'm having a hard time finding that $700 M&P that ISN'T a CA 10round fixed mag or .22lr. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong sites. I found some century arms ar's for around that price but really? CIA ar's?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_763_977

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=2304&pagenumber=2

http://www.impactguns.com/ar15-rifles.aspx?Manufacturer=Smith+and+Wesson

I remember, 2006 I think, a local gun shop had ak's for ~$250 with a metal magazine.

Shoulda woulda coulda... :banghead:

 

[P5 Guy]

Spirit of the Question

It has always been "crazy" to not have essential tools for survival.
Enough food and water to stay happy and fed thru an emergency be a snow storm, hurricane, tornados, or earthquakes. Energy to see you thru such an event is also essential.
Having a rifle/carbine with the shoulder thingy that folds up and being able to use it effectively, and having a supply of ammo for said rifle. And having it now is the way to go.
Arguing what to call it is counter productive. The label comes from those that fear it.

 

[vellocet]

Many of the "wholesalers" have Saiga rifles and shotguns for not all that much right now. Why? Who knows, but a Russian rifle for 300 bucks sounds good for someone who does not have one and wants one.

 

[JustinJ]

They're not technically assault rifles because bla, bla, bla....

Why must this be regurgitated repeatedly every time the term is used? Who cares? Does anybody actually believe opinions on gun issues are influenced one way or the other by an article using the phrase "semi-auto military style rifle" instead of "assault rifle"? Nobody today assumes the term means the weapon was select fire. Pointing out what one believes is the misuse of the term is a complete straw man arguement that accomplishes NOTHING!

 

[happygeek]

The terms do actually matter. There's well paid people whose whole job is picking the right sound bites for a politician/public affairs officer/company spokesman/etc. to use.

One of the better known well paid consultants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz

Frank I. Luntz (born February 23, 1962) is an American political consultant and pollster.[1] His most recent work has been with the Fox News Channel as a frequent commentator and analyst, as well as running focus groups after presidential debates. Luntz's specialty is “testing language and finding words that will help his clients sell their product or turn public opinion on an issue or a candidate.”[2] He is also an author of business books dealing with communication strategies and public opinion. Luntz's current company, Luntz Global, LLC, specializes in message creation and image management for commercial and political clients.

Assault rifle is a real term, but a weapon has to be select fire and fire an intermediate rifle caliber to be one. An assault rifle doesn't need a flash suppressor, pistol grip, folding stock, or be black to be one. It just has to be select fire, feed from a detachable mag, and fire an intermediate caliber. The StG 44 is considered the first true assault rifle and is also where the term itself came from (Sturmgewehr 44 literally meaning storm rifle model of 1944, in this case storm meaning assault, not as in thunderstorm). Apparently Hitler himself named it that for propaganda reasons.

The anti-gunners like to use the made up term 'assault weapon' for the same reasons as the term 'cop killer bullets', to name another infamous example. How can you be for 'cop killer bullets' after all? The term plays well in sound bites and scares those who don't know exactly what's being discussed.

http://www.luntzglobal.com/expertise-issues-answers.php

Either take control of the debate, or the debate will take control of you. It really is that simple. Silence is no longer an option. The news cycle never ends. Either you determine the message or someone else will.

Our focus is on language. We already know the words that work – or we’ll find them for you…fast.

Consider our record:

We changed the “estate tax” to the “death tax” and that changed the course of legislative history.

We changed “global warming” to “climate change,” and while that was highly confidential, even opponents acknowledged how those two words significantly impacted the public debate.

We changed “drilling for oil” to “exploring for energy,” and that helped energy companies secure the rights to develop more energy resources right here in America.

We changed “school choice” to “parental choice” and “vouchers” to “opportunity scholarships,” and that has helped the education reform efforts in more than a dozen states.”

Time after time we have succeeded in changing the course of the debate, and the impact can be measured in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

What's an Assault Weapon?

 

[JustinJ]

The terms do actually matter. There's well paid people whose whole job is picking the right sound bites for a politician/public affairs officer/company spokesman/etc. to use.

When a person reads an articles that says "John Doe gunned down 3 people at McDonalds with an assault rifle today" do you honestly believe that the phrase "assault rifle" is what they take issue with? Sorry, but no. "Military style rifle" sounds no better in that context.

Yes, the political world is full of scum like Luntz but if you believe journalists consult somebody like him to word their articles its time to take off the tin foil hat.

 

[happygeek]

You do realize 'semi-auto military style rifle' is another anti-gun term right?

The journalists use those terms for any number of a couple of reasons. Either they don't know any better, they are anti-gun themselves, or they're trying to be sensationalist to sell more newspapers.

If you want to do the Brady Campaign's consultant's job for them you're certainly free to do so.

 

[JustinJ]

You do realize 'semi-auto military style rifle' is another anti-gun term right?

How so? What neutral term would you like to see applied? Semi auto AK47? Do you think that is going to sound better?

Okay, apparently a little journalism 101 is needed. When a reporter writes and article it is his job to use terminology that is widely known by the public. AR15 is not used, which is not technically accurate either unless the gun is made by Colt, because many people will have no idea what that is.

The journalists use those terms for any number of a couple of reasons. Either they don't know any better, they are anti-gun themselves, or they're trying to be sensationalist to sell more newspapers.

Unfortunately sensationalism is widely used but as i explained above the term assault rifle is generally used because in the modern lexicon it is associated with semi auto AKs and ARs by the general public.

If you want to do the Brady Campaign's consultant's job for them you're certainly free to do so

Yeah, you got me figured out. I'm actually an undercover gun control advocate. The real reason i own seven AK pattern rifles is to keep them out of the hands of others.

I'm sorry if the reality is not convenient to your world view.

 

[Iramo94]

I'd also like a few of "that thing that goes up."

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Eat a balanced and sensible firearms-realted 'diet'. Set some goals that meet your needs and interests and try to remember to have fun while exercising your rights.

 

[Justin]

They're not technically assault rifles because bla, bla, bla....

Why must this be regurgitated repeatedly every time the term is used? Who cares? Does anybody actually believe opinions on gun issues are influenced one way or the other by an article using the phrase "semi-auto military style rifle" instead of "assault rifle"? Nobody today assumes the term means the weapon was select fire. Pointing out what one believes is the misuse of the term is a complete straw man arguement that accomplishes NOTHING!

Because words mean things. The definition of an "assault rifle" has a specific meaning that includes the ability to fire full-auto or bursts.

Therefore claiming that your AR15 or Saiga AK derivative is an assault rifle is demonstrably incorrect.

Maybe you're new to the shooting sports, but for those of us who actually remember what it was like to have to put up with the ban on so-called "assault weapons" the difference between a real assault rifle, and a military-based sporting gun is a very bright, shining line, but the anti-gun activists were able to gain significant political ground during the 1990s, much of it derived from duping the public into thinking that AR15s and other military-style firearms were honest-to-god assault rifles.

But don't take my word for it. All we have to do is look at what's been said on the topic by those who actively pursue to reduce your right to own a firearm.

"Assault weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons --anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun-- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons."

-Josh Sugarmann, Executive Director of the Violence Policy Center.

 

[Sky]

Think we have a better chance of getting some restrictions on max loads/capacity allowed for mags than another ban. But who knows what lurks in the minds of law makers.

 

[Elkins45]

Godwin's Law in only 7 posts. That was quick.

Buy if you can afford to. If not at least get ammo. If for no other reason than you can. All tin foil aside, buy a rifle and lots of ammo and take a carbine class with someone like Pat Rogers.

I had to look up Godwin's Law, and so I learned something today. Thanks for that.

And just for the sake of consistency, President Obama must be given credit for signing the bill allowing carry in the National Parks. His desires to do otherwise and his overall regard for firearms remain justifiably disturbing, but he did do a good thing even if that wasn't his intention. And in doing so he might just have generated some statistics harmful to his side of the argument--after all, the rivers and streams of the National Parks are hardly running red with the blood of the innocent, are they?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

What were they called before they started to be labeled as assault rifles?

 

[vellocet]

Just because you have an assault rifle does not mean you are going to actually assault something with it. Saigas are a good deal now.

 

[CapnMac]

They were called rifles, carbines, guns, whatever.

It's clearly germane to remind those new to this, that the initial list of banned items was generated by a Congressional Staffer being handed a copy of Guns Digest and a marker, and was told to circle "anything that looks like a machine gun." The items of common occurrence between those are what created the "evil features" list.

And, "lowest prices ever" is certainly a matter of perspective.

I was waiting for the prices to go down more, as I thought the $149.95 in the Montgomery Wards catalog was still too high for a Mini-14. I also could not imagine having $599.95 for an actual Colt AR. In 1992, I spent a whopping $600 for an Eagle Arms (before becoming ArmaLite) in A2 configuration. Which is half MSRP today. I also remember when SKS were $79.95, and a case of 7.62x39 ammo was $79.95 too.

Prices are lower than about three years ago, but, they are not the lowest they have ever been.