fatmanonabike
Member
No absolutely not. It is simply junk, the poorest design ever conceived. However several generations of mass hypnosis has enabled a couple dozen manufacturers to stay in business.
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Is the 1911 a Reliable Design?
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I do not consider the limited capacity single stack prone to have a .5% ftf rate as a great option for trusting my life to it. Though I have carried 1911's, I generally carry a glock when in normal clothing and a 5 shot revolver when dressed skimpy. Either of these guns have proven to me to be 99.99999 percent reliable. I have owned 4 1911's, and worked on some more. Out of the 4 that I own, none of them have proven 99.99999 effective. Maybe 95% at best.
I love 1911's, (do a search on my screen name and you'll see custom makeovers on 1911's that I've personally built,) I really do love them. But their 100 year history has much more to do with the aftermarket support and customization markets than it does the inherent design of the pieces themselves.
For example, buy a 1911, then (see my posts on 1911 builds from scratch) modify the heck out of them. Hammers, triggers, slides, bull barrells, whatever. Buy a glock or a sig, and what to glock and sig owners upgrade on their guns? Sights maybe? Or another barrell to run 2 calibers?
1911's are like Harleys. They have history. They are cool. They are shiny, or if not shiny, sexy. But just like a Harley I wouldn't trust my life to one. A harley is okay to ride for a while around town, and a 1911 is nice to shoot at the range. But if I'm going racing at 185mph on the banks of Daytona, I'll take my R1 yamaha thank you very much, and for day to day carry, it's the glock.
Flame away, but the truth is, as the truth does, and cops and military do NOT carry 1911's as duty guns anymore. There's a reason.
I love 1911's, (do a search on my screen name and you'll see custom makeovers on 1911's that I've personally built,) I really do love them. But their 100 year history has much more to do with the aftermarket support and customization markets than it does the inherent design of the pieces themselves.
For example, buy a 1911, then (see my posts on 1911 builds from scratch) modify the heck out of them. Hammers, triggers, slides, bull barrells, whatever. Buy a glock or a sig, and what to glock and sig owners upgrade on their guns? Sights maybe? Or another barrell to run 2 calibers?
1911's are like Harleys. They have history. They are cool. They are shiny, or if not shiny, sexy. But just like a Harley I wouldn't trust my life to one. A harley is okay to ride for a while around town, and a 1911 is nice to shoot at the range. But if I'm going racing at 185mph on the banks of Daytona, I'll take my R1 yamaha thank you very much, and for day to day carry, it's the glock.
Flame away, but the truth is, as the truth does, and cops and military do NOT carry 1911's as duty guns anymore. There's a reason.
FoMoGo
Member
Dude, you need to find someone else to build those 1911s then.
See above statement.
Ever think that all the modification MAY be why they are not running correctly?
Actually... some still do.
Jim
shootniron
Member
Hey man, it it great that you like and trust the Glock as I much as I like and trust the 1911. It is a good feeling to carry a gun that you have absolute confidence in.
About the only advice that I can give you is, if you ever find yourself in a defensive situation and facing a BG armed with a 1911...you better be quicker and shoot straighter than him, and don't bet your life on that 1911 not going "bang".
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9mm is cheaper and easier to learn for both.
For the military, the surplus stock of 1911s was from 1945 and practically falling apart.
You really can't argue that the military doesn't carry 1911s due to reliability since the AR-15 family isn't 100% reliable either. You'd also be bananas to suggest that the Beretta 92 family is perfectly reliable or even appreciably more reliable than the 1911.
okay, I'll play. soo.........
If the reason is that the lawyer's won't let them carry them, one must ask, "why won't the lawyers let them carry them?" Are the lawyers pro-plastic? Anti single action? What is it that causes the lawyers to not want police and military to carry 1911's?
Oh yeah, that' right, about 100 years of statistical data that shows the overall length of the round has to be long enough to prevent nose dives ftf, and another 100 years of data showing that safeties complicate training, and another 100 years of data showing that civlians may only need 3-5 rounds to be safe but SOME officers and all military need way more than that.......... hhhhmmmmm, I"m on a roll now.
Might the lawyers that don't want cops and soldiers carrying 1911's have reviewed the 100 years of data that shows in the heat and speed of battle 12-17 rounds of 9 are more effective than 7 rounds of 45? Or maybe, just maybe, it could be that the lawyers who don't want the cops and soldiers to carry 1911's have access to 100 years of data that shows that 1911's have to be individually smithed in an effort to line up the disconnectors, triggers, hammers, safeties, etc all working together and that is why most high end 1911 parts "require gunsmith fitting" when glock or SIG parts bolt right in and work without all the custom fitting?
I'm not knocking 1911's. I like them. I've had a few of them, and just recently built another. I did a bull barrelled ramp fed blued steel piece with checkering and molon labe grips, it's cool. I get that 1911's are cool. And have wonderful triggers. The one I just built hits at 1 inch at 25 yards off a sang bag, feeds anything including flying ashtray hollows, (thanks to the ramp I work that I welded in, before it would only feed ball ammo,) and it's as reliable as a 1911 can be. AFTER 1000 DOLLARS AND 20 HOURS OF WORK. To get all this from a glock you just pay the police or military price of $350, and all of the aforementioned is avoided.
But I lied when I said that there's a reason cops and soldiers no longer carry them on duty. Because actually, there's more like 10.
If the reason is that the lawyer's won't let them carry them, one must ask, "why won't the lawyers let them carry them?" Are the lawyers pro-plastic? Anti single action? What is it that causes the lawyers to not want police and military to carry 1911's?
Oh yeah, that' right, about 100 years of statistical data that shows the overall length of the round has to be long enough to prevent nose dives ftf, and another 100 years of data showing that safeties complicate training, and another 100 years of data showing that civlians may only need 3-5 rounds to be safe but SOME officers and all military need way more than that.......... hhhhmmmmm, I"m on a roll now.
Might the lawyers that don't want cops and soldiers carrying 1911's have reviewed the 100 years of data that shows in the heat and speed of battle 12-17 rounds of 9 are more effective than 7 rounds of 45? Or maybe, just maybe, it could be that the lawyers who don't want the cops and soldiers to carry 1911's have access to 100 years of data that shows that 1911's have to be individually smithed in an effort to line up the disconnectors, triggers, hammers, safeties, etc all working together and that is why most high end 1911 parts "require gunsmith fitting" when glock or SIG parts bolt right in and work without all the custom fitting?
I'm not knocking 1911's. I like them. I've had a few of them, and just recently built another. I did a bull barrelled ramp fed blued steel piece with checkering and molon labe grips, it's cool. I get that 1911's are cool. And have wonderful triggers. The one I just built hits at 1 inch at 25 yards off a sang bag, feeds anything including flying ashtray hollows, (thanks to the ramp I work that I welded in, before it would only feed ball ammo,) and it's as reliable as a 1911 can be. AFTER 1000 DOLLARS AND 20 HOURS OF WORK. To get all this from a glock you just pay the police or military price of $350, and all of the aforementioned is avoided.
But I lied when I said that there's a reason cops and soldiers no longer carry them on duty. Because actually, there's more like 10.
dcarch
Member
I have a Kimber Custom II. Just passed 1000 rds., and no malfunctions of any sort here. Works for me.
shootniron
Member
This can't be right...they will NOT shoot more than 100rds without a malfunction. You need to brush-up on your counting before posting such.
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Lawyers are anti-give-a-destructive-device-to-someone-who-has-no-clue-what-they-are-doing. And quite frankly no, I don't believe lawyers have much influence at all over what police departments choose to issue, cause if they did the cops would be left with flashlights and nightsticks only.
The 1911 was never a popular police handgun, but neither were any other automatics until capacity became a big concern in the 1980's. Police were content with medium frame double action revolvers for many years, but then again in those days it was rare for a cop to have to pull a gun on someone. As far as the military goes they must have been pretty content with the 1911, as it was one of the longest serving small arms of any nation on earth.
Even today the 1911 is still seeing use in both military and police units across the country. The Marines are even in the process of adopting the 1911 again in the form of the M45 Close Quarters Combat Pistol, which will be issued on a limited basis. They must not be concerned with the "100 years of data" if they are choosing to re-adopt the gun.
Geez Louise, you better hurry up and inform these guys (they must not have seen your post yet!):
USMC Force Recon
FBI Hostage Rescue Team
LAPD SWAT
USA 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta
I'm sure there are lots of others, but you should at least send written warning to the above agencies ASAP!
In all seriousness, the real reason most LEA have gone to plastic pistols is more than likely financial. It almost always eventually comes down to money doesn't it? There's a bean counter in every agency. These polymer guns can be offered at prices that no manufacturer would be able to offer for a quality 1911. Glock can offer the same kind of deal to LEAs that Walmart has on underwear- about thirty of them for a nickel. Not that there aren't other reasons, but I'd be willing to bet it's the biggest.
JMHO.
Jason
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
And you came up with this information where...exactly?
OAL from 1.190-1.275 seem to do just fine. If you're getting nose-dives, I'd suggest that you try a good magazine. If that doesn't cure it, the feed ramp is out of spec.
So a single motion with the thumb is complex...but all the other controls are simple. Hmm
Well...you know what they say. PracticePracticePractice.
Yeah. Capacity is important if you miss a lot. See the part about PracticePracticePractice.
Could be that's because people like to tinker and customize 1911s...for one reason or another...and because the aftermarket is full of vendors ready, willing, and able to sell things to people who do that. Could be that GlockSigBeretta aftermarket modification parts just aren't all that plentiful.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Touche'!
Shirley you jest!
Paintin' with an awful wide brush ain'tcha sport? Considering the millions that have been produced in the last hundred years and all...implying that they're all bad based on your experience with a handful is a little like insisting that they're all flawless.
You are correct, however, I had this in mind when I posted.
Five percent would be one in 20.
At any rate, I don't think we uncovered any credibility.
YankeeFlyr
Member
Been reading this thread...seems to me that it's not the design that's been a problem, it's the deviation from it by these high-end makers (I don't mean one-off true custom guns, but the production custom lines) that cause problems.
The 1911 and -A1 were intended as close-in, I-can-smell-your-breath combat pieces, not target shooters or race guns...tightening them up and playing with the time-proven parameters of operation is what compromises reliability.
Slide to frame fit? Leave it be if you want it to go bang in the field, every time.
Hammer lock time? Don't mess with the hammer mainspring and expect the required cycling energy to be the same as tested for standardization way back when.
Trigger job? They're COMBAT PISTOLS.
Get a target job if ya want...don't cry if it's not an eat-all-ammo world beater. I wouldn't.
The 1911 and -A1 were intended as close-in, I-can-smell-your-breath combat pieces, not target shooters or race guns...tightening them up and playing with the time-proven parameters of operation is what compromises reliability.
Slide to frame fit? Leave it be if you want it to go bang in the field, every time.
Hammer lock time? Don't mess with the hammer mainspring and expect the required cycling energy to be the same as tested for standardization way back when.
Trigger job? They're COMBAT PISTOLS.
Get a target job if ya want...don't cry if it's not an eat-all-ammo world beater. I wouldn't.
Brockak47
Member
Is the 100+ year 1911 Design reliable?
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Loose doesn't guarantee bet-your-life reliability any more than tight guarantees bughole accuracy, and too loose can actually compromise reliability. I've seen super-tight pistols run with the best of'em...clean or dirty. I've seen loose pistols that delivered surprising accuracy. It can go either way. Reliability is more a matter of correct ramp geometry and extractor function than anything else. If those two factors are right, the pistol will run, assuming a good magazine and decent ammunition.
The reason that so many people believe that the GI pistols were reliable because they were loose is because the ones they've handled have been badly worn. New ones...or the ones that hadn't been shot to death...were actually pretty well fitted.
The reason that so many people believe that the GI pistols were reliable because they were loose is because the ones they've handled have been badly worn. New ones...or the ones that hadn't been shot to death...were actually pretty well fitted.
wwace
Member
Is the 100+ year 1911 Design reliable?
I can agree with this statements implication, and I can also test fire my new girl to provide the definitive answer to this thread. She will be 100 next year. We did a lengthy look at her internals and she looks great, firing pin and extractor show some wear but other than that she has a clean bill of health.
I can agree with this statements implication, and I can also test fire my new girl to provide the definitive answer to this thread. She will be 100 next year. We did a lengthy look at her internals and she looks great, firing pin and extractor show some wear but other than that she has a clean bill of health.
LawScholar
Member
Is the 100+ year 1911 Design reliable?
I can agree with this statements implication, and I can also test fire my new girl to provide the definitive answer to this thread. She will be 100 next year. We did a lengthy look at her internals and she looks great, firing pin and extractor show some wear but other than that she has a clean bill of health.
Beautiful old girl! Wow!
peacebutready
Member
I saw an officer with a 1911. I think a 1911 needs to be at least of a certain quality for officer duty. I read figure on $1500 to spend. Then, they need to be looked after/maintained more than Glocks, for example. Won't a good 1911 do better than 95% reliability with ammo that has been given a sufficient test?
The military doesn't carry 1911's anymore because they had to adopt the 9mm for NATO reasons.
That's where skills with tactical reloading come in. Carry multiple 7 or 8 round spare mags.
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