Posted by EHL:
Not again Defensory. Really, it gets old you bashing on anybody who would carry a .380 for SD. You've made your position known, why don't you stop there? You hate .380 acp.
You've made YOUR position known. So if you don't like what I post, then run along. I'm within the forum rules in what I post, so if you don't like it, you're going to have to grow up and deal with it.
I have no hate or love for any firearms cartridge. As a firearms instructor, one of my chief goals is to teach people to prevail in a shooting situation. They can't do that if they have an inadequate round like the .380.
Your chief reasons are Massad Ayoob's opinion and a gun school that won't take anybody with .380's. So what?? There's many more firearms training schools/classes that do allow and train people with .380's. So if I use the logic that the majority can't be wrong, then I guess .380 supporters outnumber the nay sayers. So where are we now? Back to where we were before. You still hate the .380 and there are still many that use it as a self defense caliber. We got alot solved didn't we??
No, those aren't my "chief" reasons. They're two reasons I chose to mention, but there are MANY more. The immortal Jeff Cooper scoffed at even a 9mm for self-defense, and his firearms knowledge dwarfs yours.
Your inferior logic has been noted, laughed at, and discarded. First of all, you don't know that "many more" training schools/classes allow people to train with .380's. Second, even if your statement were true, it's utterly irrelevant, since many "training schools/classes" are run by blatantly unqualified and underqualified individuals who are often just after your money. So they could care less if you bring a BB pistol to class, as long as you're forking over the cash.
Individuals like Ayoob and Cooper, as well as training centers like Gunsite, are at the Harvard/Cambridge level of defensive handgunnery---while the "schools" you mention are often at the Boise Technical High School level of firearms knowledge and instruction.
My internationally renown experts trump your unnamed nobodies, 24/7/365.
To the OP, my wife carry's a 9mm and a .380 acp. I feel safe when she carries either one of them.
When she's carrying a .380, she's definitely less safe than with a 9mm or larger. Your "feeling" and declaration of her alleged "safety", are totally irrelevant. A false sense of security doesn't make your wife safe.
The odds of some cracked up coke fiend brushing off a bullet's hit ALWAYS exists. There are numerous documented cases of people being shot with 40 S&W, 357mag, 45 acp, 44 magnum, 12 guage 00buckshot, etc... that shrugged it off and continued to attack Law enforcement.
More of your weak logic---"Some people have been shot by high-powered rounds that failed to stop, thus the .380 is just as good". Sheesh---my college logic professor could drive a mile-long freight train through your logic, SIDEWAYS.
Since you brought up the topic of law enforcement, let's take a nationwide poll of LE organizations, and see how many carry .380's as their primary duty weapons, and how many carry 9mm or larger.
There's virtually NO significant law enforcement agency in the country that carries a .380 as its primary sidearm. Virtually all of the LEA's in the country issue a 9mm or larger to their officers and agents.
After the infamous FBI Miami Shootout of 1986, thousands of departments even got rid of their 9mm's and .38 Specials, moving up to the more powerful .40 S&W---which is now probably the most commonly used LEA cartridge in the country.
European LEA's dumped their .380 poodler shooters at least half a century ago, moving up to the 9mm, when they realized the .380 did a poor job of stopping the terrorists and hardened criminals that were emerging in Europe during that period.
This is a fact of life. Law enforcement, however, has the distinct advantage of being able to openly carry and rightly so. We civilians have to (more often than not) conceal our weapons for multiple reasons. Our very jobs could be on the line if somebody finds out that we carry for personal protection. All it takes is one person that spots our carry piece and our very livelihoods are at stake. That would affect not only us, but our families futures. So we have a choice; we can either not carry in order to protect our families' financial future but we remain unarmed and vulnerable to the predations of any would-be felon; or we carry as discretely as possible thereby protecting our jobs and also giving us a fighting chance to survive should the need arise.
Get a concealed carry license, and it doesn't matter what "other people think". If your employer doesn't allow you to carry on company property, either suck it up or find a new job. Your tempest in a teapot "problems" are easily solved.
I think it's rather calous that anybody would belittle somebody for their choice in carry when alot of other circumstances are obviously in play. Us civilians don't have the luxury of carrying the biggest baddest sidearm that our 30 lb belts could carry. We carry for the sake of the unexpected. I think it would show wisdom on your part to respect people in thier decisions to carry or not carry. You have made your point about not liking the .380 Defensory.
Does the "H" in your screenname stand for "Hypocrite"?! You're the same guy who referred to another poster and myself as "blowhards", then you try to hide behind some big facade of how "tolerant" and "respectful" you are of other people's views---when actually you're quite INTOLERANT.
I want people involved in shooting situations to SURVIVE. More will survive if they use a 9mm or more powerful weapon, than if they use a .380 poodle shooter.
There's a reason that virtually every significant law enforcement agency in the civilized world discarded the .380 as a primary duty weapon YEARS AGO, and that's because it has a documented history of not getting the job done in a critical shooting situation.
The 9mm Kahr PM9 is just as small as almost all the pocket .380's on the market, so size considerations are no longer a valid reason to own a .380.
Since most .380's are blowbacks, they have just as much recoil, if not more, than modern pocket 9mm's. So recoil isn't a valid reason to own a .380.
9mm ammunition is significantly CHEAPER than the ridiculously expensive .380 ammo. So ammo price considerations ARE a valid reason NOT to own a .380. The noticeably cheaper 9mm ammo allows people on a tight budget to practice more with the 9mm.
Modern pocket 9mm's have essentially rendered the .380 obsolete for personal defense.
Show some class and be more respectful of others who opine differently than your "infinitly wise conclusions".