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Is there a good compromise between Glock and 1911?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Roman2in, Jul 17, 2008.

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  1. Roman2in

    Roman2in Member

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    I've been looking for a pistol that would combine in itself reliability of Glocks (Feeds any kind and any brand of ammo well. Requires very little maintenance. Not susceptible to water, salt, dirt and sand. Simple in construction. etc) and would operate similarly to 1911. (at least one reliable and easy to operate manual safety, and preferably other things like open hammer, thumb and grip safety, SA etc...)

    Trigger must feel the same on the first and every consecutive pull.

    Springfild XD and HK USP seem to satisfy my requirements pretty well. (although both have drawbacks: Springfiled XD is still unproven, USP has a very large trigger guard so something might get snagged on a trigger, and it has only one safety)

    So what I wanted to ask you guys is if there are any other pistols out there that meets such requirements. Any other good compromises? If not, what do you think of Sprinfgiled XD and HK USP?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Hunter0924

    Hunter0924 Member

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    A "1911" that is correctly built in spec is as reliable as any other pistol and possible better than many.
     
  3. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I strongly recommend getting a Glock - specifically a Glock 19 or 17.

    Most objections to the Glock as a fighting pistol fall into the general category of mindset failure, including objections of the forms: "I don't like it", "It doesn't fit my hand", "I need a manual safety", "The trigger is bad."

    Scores of new shooters try to make pistol selection much more difficult than it need be; I did so myself when I was new.

    The vast majority of people who buy a pistol for self-defense would be better served by a Glock than something else. If that's hard to swallow, at least grant that the mental energy and hand-wringing over what pistol to buy (or what brand of ammo to shoot) would be better spent in training and mindset development.

    Now back to your regularly-scheduled handgun thread...
     
  4. XDelicious

    XDelicious Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by the XD being "still unproven". They have been through the ringer in testing and have performed beautifully. I own the XD40 and for me it's probably the most comfortable gun I've shot as well as accurate.... Als I've yet to have one FTF or FTE with it after about 500 rounds. Really haven't heard anything really negative about them. Just wondering what you meant by that?
     
  5. Roman2in

    Roman2in Member

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    Hunter, according to your sig I'd assume you are talking about Colt 1991, correct? :) As far as I know, it will feed hollow point, but I don't think it feeds all brands of ammo reliably. I also heard that it requires relatively high maintenance compared to modern designs. Or am I wrong?

    XDelicious, I really did not hear much about XD, and it doen't seem like there is alot of information (reviews, tests) posted on the web. That's why I arrived to that conclusion. But if you know of any reviews or test of this pistol, please let me know. If it's posted on the web I'd especially appreciate that. :)

    Edit:
    Zak Smith, I'll probably end up getting Glock 19 exactly for the reason that you posted, but I don't want to give up just yet. Still trying to find something closer to what I ideally want. :)
     
  6. borntwice

    borntwice Member

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    Q: Is there a good compromise between Glock and 1911?

    A: Yes: a CZ 75-D Compact (PCR), or a CZ 75 P-01.
     
  7. jlh26oo

    jlh26oo Member

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    Sig is an average of sorts between GLOCK and a traditional 1911 in many respects. THe alloy frame is kind of a middle ground between S.S. and polymer's weight and feel. T.D.A. trigger means no safety like the GLOCK, yet all but the first shot are still S.A. (and if consistent from 1st to last shot is a must, you can always get the L.E.M. trigger). Has the reliability of a GLOCK, but still has "real gun" heft, feel, and visible hammer like a 1911.

    But if you want more 1911-like, aren't they making X.D.'s with M.S.'s now? I mean, that's kind of on the nose, isn't it? Grip safety, manual safety, more traditional grip angle, etc. I don't care for them, but I wouldn't rule it out by saying they're uproven. Every year proof you add to that threshold requisite is that many more platforms you are denying a possibility of. I.M.O. only and Y.M.M.V.

    EDIT: also look into a Sig P220 S.A.O.! There's your high quality, manual safety, and T.H.A.B. reliability!
     
  8. Roman2in

    Roman2in Member

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    Interesting, I'll check the these CZs out. Thanks, borntwice!
     
  9. Defensory

    Defensory Member

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  10. Roman2in

    Roman2in Member

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    Thaks jih26oo. I gotta look into p220 SAO. BTW, what does M.S. stand for? (fist line in your second paragraph)

    Thanks for the links Defensory! So thay actually did test it!
     
  11. XDelicious

    XDelicious Member

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    Roman, I did a quick search and found an article from someone on the torture tests of a XD.... This was just a quick search mind you, and not done by a professional (that I can tell). I will look a little longer but I am tired. Maybe I can find something concrete soon. I have to admit my comments about the XD's are based on owning one (of course I haven't put my gun through any torture tests:D), and from hours on gun forums and reading reviews and the like. I will continue to look for some solid tests on the XD's.

    Here's the article.
    http://arsenal.mojo4m.com/1852/
     
  12. XDelicious

    XDelicious Member

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  13. Roman2in

    Roman2in Member

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    Nice find, thanks!
     
  14. XDelicious

    XDelicious Member

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    No problem.... Time for bed :cool:
     
  15. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    I dunno where you get the unproven part of the XD from? When I was doing my research there were quite a few articles around including torture tests. I’ve got a video CD that Springfield was giving out when they came out with the XD, and they torture test it pretty well in the videos (Sand, water, bake, freeze, toss off a 2 story building). It’s also been out long enough that I’m not hearing of any endemic problems (mostly praise). My main CCW is an XD40 SC, and over on another thread (Best Handgun Surprise in a Positive Way) there are 3 posters that have listed the accuracy of the XD40 SC as their biggest positive surprise.

    Only 1 safety on a USP?
    I’ll confess, I’m not an expert on HKs, but a USPC 40 is in my CCW rotation (along with XD40 SC and SIG P229R/357 SIG) and one reason I like the USPC is the availability of Variant 1 (round in chamber, de-cocked, safety on).
    Yeah…I guess technically that is only 1 safety?, but the fact that it’s a manual safety (and is well designed) and you have the long trigger pull for the first shot when de-cocked probably makes it one of the safest guns around?
    I’m assuming you can get Variant 1 in a USP-the USPC is ‘bout the only HK that fits my hand.

    Might do a Google search for Springfield XD Torture Test for some research.

    BTW…guess I’m just one o’ those folks with a mindset failure!
    Years ago (before buying my first polymer gun), I found Glocks just didn’t fit my hand at all. Heck…I ended up buying (a few) Sigmas! :what:
     
  16. Sylvan-Forge

    Sylvan-Forge Member

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    USP has the firing pin block safety too
     
  17. burningsquirrels

    burningsquirrels Member

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    [​IMG]

    my thought process says... if it's good enough to defend your life, it's good enough for competition. if it's good enough for life and competition, it's probably a good pistol. the poster above is for USPSA production division, but there is also an entire division (single stack) dedicated to the 1911. the 1911 has been around for nearly a century for a darned good reason, with a massive aftermarket. the glock is probably the most widely used law enforcement pistol and has an aftermarket that approaches the 1911. the CZs are an excellent, accurate, and durable, all steel pistol used widely around the world. berettas are used by the armed forces. SIGs are used by top military forces and law enforcement as well, and are fine machines. the smith M&P is doing extremely well for a new pistol and probably has the best ergonomics thanks to interchangeable backstraps if you got smaller hands. the XD is plenty proven and has more safety features like the grip safety, and a conspicuous striker and loaded chamber indicator that are impossible to miss and an ambi mag release. not a taurus fan, nor have seen any on competition - but the folks at taurusarmed.net are more than happy to share the joys of carrying their taurus pistols with you.

    find a few guns that fit your hand and you can easy work the controls on, then rent them all and shoot them at the range. then pick the winner that's right for you and buy it. it's better to spend $100 test driving a bunch of guns than to lose 150-200 every time you trade a gun in.
     
  18. floydster

    floydster Member

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    CZ, can't go wrong.
     
  19. burningsquirrels

    burningsquirrels Member

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    oh and for your original question..... if i had to name a compromise between a plastic DAO glock and a steel SAO 45... and has exposed hammer and an external safety... then here it is:

    CZ.

    if you like the stopping power of the .45, there is the CZ-97 with the 45 auto round, 10 in the magazine, and manual safety for cock-n-lock. it's DA/SA, so you can also carry hammer down, or strike a cartridge twice if needed.

    if you like light weight, there's the P-01 or 75 compact, which are alloy frames, available with a decocker (75 compact can come with plain manual safety), and are available in 40 if you need more stopping power than a 9mm.

    if you want capacity, the 75 compact holds 14+1, the 75b holds 16+1, and the 75b using SP-01 mags can hold 19+1.

    if you want familiarity with a 1911, the 40b is designed externally as a 1911, uses the 40sw cartridge that has good stopping power, and holds 12+1 with aftermarket flush fitting mec-gar magazines. it is also an alloy frame, so it feels about the same as a full sized plastic pistol. comes with a manual safety, and is available for $289 + shipping + FFL through cdnn.

    maybe i'm biased because i'm a CZ nut, but read the above for yourself and see why i think they are a good middle ground.
     
  20. XDKingslayer

    XDKingslayer member

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    I would have to say that the XD IS the middle ground between the Glock and the 1911.

    The XD has ergonomics close to a 1911, especially the new ones with the interchangeable backstraps. And it has the reliability, accuracy and plastic of the Glock.
     
  21. burningsquirrels

    burningsquirrels Member

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    ^^ yes. the XD was designed with the following in mind:

    glock (plastic, striker)
    1911 (grip angle and grip safety)
    plus modern safety features (good loaded chamber and striker position indicator)

    ... which is why we bought it for my fiance as her carry. :) easy for her to see what's going on inside the pistol, and with her extra small hands, she uses her trigger finger to release the magazine. she cannot reach the mag release on any right-hand-thumb-only carry-sized gun that i've seen so far.
     
  22. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    Sounds like you are asking for a USP to me. The safety mechanism on a V1 USP is my favorite control lever of any weapon, ever. The tough part about USP fullsize models is that the enlarged trigger guard makes many of their holsters one gun only, but if you are buying high quality then your holsters will already be fit for one gun.
     
  23. Gary A

    Gary A Member

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    Get yerself a good sixgun and be done with it. (Just kidding)
     
  24. flynnguy

    flynnguy Member

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    Just get a reliable 1911. From what I understand, most of the unreliability of 1911s is due to tightening things up for accuracy.

    Of course the HK lineup is very similar to a 1911 and has a polymer frame. Also well known for their reliability.
     
  25. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    The M&P 45 has all you are asking about.

    Thumb safty & all. My 9mm has bee 100% reliable.
     
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