Panzerschwein
member
If I were to do this with a percussion revolver, give me a Lemat and a stout charge of Holy Black under a 1 oz. 16 gauge slug for the shotgun barrel.
THAT ought to do the trick!
THAT ought to do the trick!
Is this guy pulling my leg? Black bear hunting with a .44 cap & ball
- Thread starter Ranger Roberts
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You wouldn't catch me firing at brown bears with anything I have, but a black bear? Sure I would. But I'd use my .50 cal rifle and only use a .44/.45 cal pistol if I had to find it. But I'd certainly give it a long moment before I went looking!
I actually created my 285 grn WFN bullet for my ROA as I thought I'd be moving to VA with the possibility for black bears and wanted extra sectional density for penetration.
I actually created my 285 grn WFN bullet for my ROA as I thought I'd be moving to VA with the possibility for black bears and wanted extra sectional density for penetration.
I don't think it's a matter of ballistics. I think it's a matter of probability and Murphy's Law.
A .454 ball (or better yet, a conical) set atop a good stout charge of quality powder should be fairly lethal if the placement is right. I have no question about that.
For me, it's more of an issue of a cap not going off or getting jammed in the action or not being able to see through the smoke for a needed follow up shot.
A .454 ball (or better yet, a conical) set atop a good stout charge of quality powder should be fairly lethal if the placement is right. I have no question about that.
For me, it's more of an issue of a cap not going off or getting jammed in the action or not being able to see through the smoke for a needed follow up shot.
Willie Sutton
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Noting for the record that the OP is in Pennsylvania, and that Black Bears there are just about as hard to kill as a big dog, I don't doubt at all that any of the .44's with a round ball would do just fine in the environments where the Blackies are usually found, meaning that a 15 yard shot would be a long one.
Willie
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Willie
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bigleverman
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I live in Northcentral PA and though bears average 150 to 200 pounds , there are 500 to 600 pounders killed around here every year. They are typically in thick mountain laurel but main technique around here seems to drives. I have also worked in sporting good store for 25 years and have heard a ton of bs!!
Also PA regs state muzzleloading pistols must be 50 cal or larger
Also PA regs state muzzleloading pistols must be 50 cal or larger
Crawdad1
Member
Oh boy here we go again. The PA Hunting Code does NOT define the cap and ball revolver as either a handgun or muzzleloader in their hunting regulations. Its a big VOID and nobody wants to discuss it further not even the AG office or the Game Commission.
Here;
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606998&page=2
Here;
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606998&page=2
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jgh4445
Member
A RB is a different critter than a bullet or a conical. They just have a way of killin'. I've had deer and hogs both run off from a hit with a bullet, but nothing I've ever shot has run off with a RB in the right place.
Diogenes415
Member
Isn't it really just a matter of the distance to the intended target? At this range I think I'd let out a girly scream of fright that could kill this bear of a heart attack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jRTrRxamxQ&t=35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jRTrRxamxQ&t=35
Carl N. Brown
Member
Is it possible for someone who knows their gun, knows bear anatomy like a surgeon, and has nerves of steel and lotsa practice? YES it can be done. I am also realistic enuf to know that aint me.
If a need to shoot a bear arose in the mountains, it would not be ideal conditions. Bears are awesome to watch from a respectful distance, and I prefer to practice bear advoidance.
If a need to shoot a bear arose in the mountains, it would not be ideal conditions. Bears are awesome to watch from a respectful distance, and I prefer to practice bear advoidance.
Schwing
Member
I have no doubt that it can and has been done. It would not but even close to my first choice... In the event that I HAD a choice.
Bears have a brain, heart and lungs just like any other animal. I would dare say a properly placed shot from almost any caliber will do the job but I would also dare say that the bear isn't going to afford you very many misses before it has something to say about it.
I have some old family journals from the late 1700's. One of the family stories is of a housewife who tried to shoot a bear going after their pigs with her husband's musket. Supposedly, she winged it on the shoulder and then finished it off with a pitch fork...
Is this really a true story? I believe it is but, even if it isn't, it sure is fun to have in the family.
Bears have a brain, heart and lungs just like any other animal. I would dare say a properly placed shot from almost any caliber will do the job but I would also dare say that the bear isn't going to afford you very many misses before it has something to say about it.
I have some old family journals from the late 1700's. One of the family stories is of a housewife who tried to shoot a bear going after their pigs with her husband's musket. Supposedly, she winged it on the shoulder and then finished it off with a pitch fork...
Is this really a true story? I believe it is but, even if it isn't, it sure is fun to have in the family.
robhof
Member
There was an old episode of American Sportsman with a young William Shatner in Alaska; he bow shot a Brown and dropped it, his guide had one of those elephant doubles for back up, so it's possible, but I'd rather be the one with the elephant gun than the 44!
Robhof,
I remember that. Shatner wanted to go right in after the bear that headed for the brush but the guide held him back and said to wait a while. I can't remember the rest but was impressed with Shatner's bravery (fine line between bravery & stupidity) but the guide had Bill's best interest in mind. Geeze, if he'd gotten mauled we'd be looking at a different Captain Kirk.
I remember that. Shatner wanted to go right in after the bear that headed for the brush but the guide held him back and said to wait a while. I can't remember the rest but was impressed with Shatner's bravery (fine line between bravery & stupidity) but the guide had Bill's best interest in mind. Geeze, if he'd gotten mauled we'd be looking at a different Captain Kirk.
Yeah they would have had to recast Kirk, but he might still have been up for the part of bones
ClickClickD'oh
Member
The Colt Walker is essentially a .45-60... 10 grains of black powder short of a .45-70. Think a .45-70 could take a bear?
dickydalton
Member
Yup. But you aren't shooting a 140 grain round ball in your 45-70. Think that might make a difference?
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Round ball in your Walker? Heathen.
Crawdad1
Member
How big of a conical, grain wise, can you load in a Walker and still have chamber room to load 60 grains of black powder??
elhombreconnonombre
Member
Well I have never fired my ASM Walkers with a full 60 grain bp charge, but the cylinder chambers will take about 40 bp grains per inch depth uncompressed and the chambers are 1.75" deep. Depending on whether you use a wonder wad or not, like in 1847, you can calculate the amount of loose powder under your choice of prb or conical, and compress/seat the bullet as needed.
bubba15301
Member
not legal for small game in pa i have an email from the pa game commission. cap and ball revolvers are considered centerfire revolvers not muzzleloaders
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Crawdad1
Member
That's good information right there.
I always thought that the 60' Army was acceptable and good to go for deer.
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bubba15301
Member
Crawdad1 it is legal for big game ,coyotes and groundhogs
Crawdad1
Member
Excellent!! I'm still on the right side of the regulations.
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JeeperCreeper
Member
Cranky old man? Yes
Cranky old liar? No necessarily
I'm sure he could be exaggerating, but black bear in PA normally only get double the size of my black lab (which sometimes is confused as a black bear by neighbors). If he is getting close to black bear without baiting (illegal to bait in PA) to use a cap and ball .44, I need to ask him for pointers for my hunt this ear with my .35 Rem pump.
Cranky old liar? No necessarily
I'm sure he could be exaggerating, but black bear in PA normally only get double the size of my black lab (which sometimes is confused as a black bear by neighbors). If he is getting close to black bear without baiting (illegal to bait in PA) to use a cap and ball .44, I need to ask him for pointers for my hunt this ear with my .35 Rem pump.
zimmerstutzen
Member
Big Leverman said :Also PA regs state muzzleloading pistols must be 50 cal or larger"
That is correct on it's face, but inapplicable as to cap and ball revolvers, the majority of which do NOT load from the muzzle.
Muzzle loaders for bear are also (in the actual regulations) limited to single barrel muzzle loaders so those few revolving firearms that do load from the muzzle, must have only one barrel. No pepper boxes and no Le Mats.
Until the Game Commission actually gets a person that knows something about black powder arms, we will continue to suffer such irrational rules.
In fact, cap and ball revolvers are center fire and come under the standard centerfire regulations.
Take note that UMC, Remington, and Winchester all labeled their percussion caps as "center fire" until about 1970. American companies that designed and manufactured firearms said they are centerfire.
That is correct on it's face, but inapplicable as to cap and ball revolvers, the majority of which do NOT load from the muzzle.
Muzzle loaders for bear are also (in the actual regulations) limited to single barrel muzzle loaders so those few revolving firearms that do load from the muzzle, must have only one barrel. No pepper boxes and no Le Mats.
Until the Game Commission actually gets a person that knows something about black powder arms, we will continue to suffer such irrational rules.
In fact, cap and ball revolvers are center fire and come under the standard centerfire regulations.
Take note that UMC, Remington, and Winchester all labeled their percussion caps as "center fire" until about 1970. American companies that designed and manufactured firearms said they are centerfire.
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