Prosser,
I'm confused why you find a 200gr .44 bullet too light for caliber, but are then happy with a 200gr .45 bullet, which is comparatively even lighter for caliber. As far as sectional density goes, a 180-185gr .44 bullet is roughly equivalent to a 200gr .45. A 200gr .44 bullet is about equal to a 225-230gr .45 bullet.
Eldon519: EXCELLENT POINT.
I went with the 200 grains at 1200 fps because of the observations on how well they worked on human targets. I called the owners of Detonics, and discussed which of their three rounds:
185 @ 1300
200 @ 1200 fps
230@ 1100 fps
they would suggest. They had provided LEO with their guns and ammunition, and LEO had provided photos and results of their pistols and ammunition
in actual use. They said the 200 grain flying ashtray at 1200 fps produced
excellent wounding results, and quick incapacitation, combined with relatively
light recoil. The 185's didn't have a crimp grove, and didn't appear to be anymore effective.
As for the 230's, I wonder. I picked the 230's now, but, I would feel pretty good about carrying the 200's, since they are real close to that original Detonics round.
I think there is a pretty big difference between 800-900 fps and 1200, WITH HOLLOWPOINT AMMUNITION.
What I'm seeing in the posts here is another consideration: LFN in a big caliber, vs. Hollowpoints. One of the reasons I like 240-260 grain HP's
is the lighter ones create big holes, but I get a bit concerned about penetration. I'm always concerned about a bullet that penetrates 10-14" using that penetration in a guys arm, who is pointing a gun at me.
I think the old FBI penetration standard of 18" is more to my liking.
Question here:
If you had two choices, 230 grain Speer HP at 1100 fps, or, a LFN 255 grain
lead bullet, hard cast, at 1050 fps, which would you choose for defense?
Buffalobore makes both of those, by the way.
Check my history here:
JMBrowning was commissioned to construct an automatic that would simulate
the .45 Colt, 250-260 grain Lead bullet at 1000 fps. He came up with 45 ACP.
He was confined to NON-EXPANDING BULLETS, since the gun was designed
for war, under the Hague convention. Therefore his 200 grain, 900-950 fps
original design, ball or flat point, would penetrate adequately, and, reduce ammunition carry weight by at least 25%.
After he designed the round and gun, the military decided they wanted a heavier bullet, that penetrated more, hence the 230 grain ball. Their main concern was it having to stop, or turn horses, as well as people.
SlamFire1
Quote:
Besides, if I'm using a 5 Shot, I want a big, heavy, fast bullet. How about a 275 grain speer, in .475 Linebaugh, at 1560 fps, with light recoil, that puts a 4 inch hole in deer, and opens up to the size of a 2 bore rifle slug?
Light recoil?!
That is more powerful than any of my 44 Magnums and they kick like something awful.
Well it all depends on what you want to do.
Handguns are not as powerful as rifles, if you want rifle or shotgun power than you are not going to have something as portable as a pistol.
Slamfire:
You can load stuff that doesn't recoil THAT much, yet far exceeds the .44 Magnum. That load was a MINIMUM load, using AA9, chronographed out of my 7.5" Freedom Arms 83. The gun is fast, and has an excellent, matchgrade barrel installed by Jack Huntington. Why I think it's light recoil:
If you stay on the minimum end of the pressure scales, I find you get more of a push, rather then a snap when you go for the top. The benefit of loading on the top end is, with the right primer, more consistent combustion, velocity and accuracy, because the case is fuller. The price is recoil.
The 275's I don't think, allow the powder to completely burn in the gun.
There is a lot of blast, noise, and a bit of a fireball, but, the bullet is still REALLY moving, and the recoil is less felt then 325's at 1450 fps, that I shot right after.
The gun weighs 3.2 pounds loaded, and, is easy to carry.
475 recoil
275 grain bullet
1560 fps
28 grains of AA 9
Recoil Energy of 25 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 23 fps.
Observed velocity:
275’s
1560
1441
1534
1596
average 1531 fps.
Then the ejector blew off the gun, which put an end to the session. I guess you may have a point that low recoil is perception:
I think you can get close to these loads in a .44 magnum, but, you need to work at the top of the pressure scale, and that gives you really SNAPPY hard recoil, more like a .454, which is the most extreme example of this.
Also, when you can drop 420's at 1350 in the gun for around 40 ft-lbs of recoil, and, 525's in a .500 Linebaugh Maximum, at 1350 fps, all of a sudden on that scale, the 275's are pleasant to shoot, and, low recoil.
