Isn't the 44 Special for defense just awesome?

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Been bothering me so I'll say it...unless we've actually used one of our beloved 44 specials in a self defensive action how, aside from our imagination, do we know it is so awesome in that application? Dennis
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1911 Tuner made some good points regarding this and maybe I can add a couple of more...

The use of the round on game animals. Hogs, deer, elk and black bear have all been taken with the 44 Spl. and dispatched with authority at reasonable ranges. How a round impacts, the force of it, and how it penetrates in game animals can be an indicator of it's usefulness for self defense. The changeable variant may be bullet design.

How a round operates in 10% ballistic gelatin. For the last two decades or so gelatin tests have been a standard test for bullet design and potential effectiveness. The .44 Spl. matches well with other calibers in this regard.

Lore...this round is over 100 years old and in that time a round develops a reputation either good or bad. A rep doesn't prove anything in and of itself but it can be an indicator of whether you should spend any time on a thing. The 44 Spl. developed a rep early on for it's usefulness in self defense. It's one reason reputable fellas spent a lot of time messing with it.

Few rounds are "awesome" when it comes to self defense but some are better than others. The .44 Special is one that can help the shooter makes hits fast and accurately with a round that can make a difference.

tipoc
 
255 Keith SWC, 7.5 Grains of Unique, Starline Brass (Skeeter Load). I consistently knock down metal bowling pins at 50 yards. My shooting partner gets mad when his .45 acp doesn't hit with the same authority. He shoots Blazer Brass 230 hardball. A little heavier bullet by 25 grains and approximately 70-80 fps faster I think that the .44 Special should deliver at that range. Same bullet with 10 grains of Unique in .44 Mag Brass (Elmer's practice round) that runs right at 1050 fps will pass through both sides of a deer at that distance, done it. Both of the above mentioned loads are my field loads.

The aforementioned 6.5 grain load is a nice factory duplication load when using the heavier bullets and very accurate as stated. The same dose of Unique with the 215 SWC is a nice alternative in the lighter framed guns like the Bulldog or K frame size guns. It gives a softer recoil pulse which might keep those revolvers tighter for longer.

The .44 Special is a great round, it shoots heavy bullets very, very accurately at modest velocities. I would not hesitate to press any one of the above loadings into service for self defense. Unfortunate for me I have to carry what my job tells me to carry so it's not an option. If I had a choice though it would be a .45 1911 for an auto and the .44 Special in a revolver. JMHO Bill
 
Good post, whitey. Thanks. It would seem that the "anemic" .44 Special carries a bit more authority than the numbers would suggest. On paper, it's not all that impressive. Velocity and energy figures imply that it's not very powerful...but if it'll shoot through a whitetail deer standing broadside...it has enough steam to completely wreck your day.

It's best to forget such trivial matters as energy dump. Energy isn't what incapacitates an attacker, especially with a handgun cartridge...although it is part of the equation. (Everything is something. Nothing is everything.) Shock and blood loss are the best factors to rely on. Does the bullet penetrate enough to reach the vitals?

Not even expansion is reliable. Sometimes the bullet doesn't expand, and when it does...the main advantage is that it presents a better chance of cutting a major artery by virtue of its larger frontal area.

In the end, it's a lot like the raging debate on 9mm/.40/.45 caliber and which is 'best."
If they're all shot well, one will do about as well as the other. If the bullet fored from a .44 Special case hits the right place, it'll usually do. If the bullet doesn't hit the right place...another 300 fps won't likely make much difference.
 
In the end, it's a lot like the raging debate on 9mm/.40/.45 caliber and which is 'best."
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The greatness of the .44 special is that in a gun that is the same size, or smaller then some of these, you can get outside the 'sandbox'.

The major failing of the 3 calibers mentioned by 1911Tuner is they can't shoot 255-260 grain bullets, EXCEPT for the 45 COLT, and, as a general rule, unless you go 5 shot, it's going to be in a big gun.
The .44 Special can be loaded to shoot 250-260 grain bullets at 1000-1200 fps, depending on how far outside the standard specs you want to get.

It's thicker walls, and potential for hot rodding, and heavy bullets, is what has made the .44 "Special", along with being at the upper end of the sandbox with standard loads.
 
a 250 grain bullet at 1200 fps? that's not outside of standard spec, that's loading your bullets with the intention of damaging your gun. the loads in the 250 grain range that i have seen go about 750 fps. if you want a 250 grain bullet to go that fast your gonna want a .44 magnum loaded light on powder.

personally i'd rather have a .357 going twice as fast, but too many people have talked up the .44 special for me to poo poo it anymore. i figure if the .44 special kills them 100% dead, then killing them more dead with a .357 couldn't hurt right?
 
240 grains runs around 950 fps, with standard specs.

But, yes, I tend to like low end, light powdered, .44 magnum loads vs. the .44 Special.
Still, 240 grains at 950 fps, in a light strong 5 shot gives me the VERY WARM and Fuzzies;-)

That was what I was running out of my Bulldog, till it rattled loose.
 
a 250 grain bullet at 1200 fps? that's not outside of standard spec, that's loading your bullets with the intention of damaging your gun.
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Depends on the gun, and how much you intend to shoot a particular load in it. Modern guns are typically proofed at 25% more pressure than the SAAMI limit.

It also depends on the powder. 1200 fps with 2400 doesn't bring the same dynamics to the table as 1200 fps with Unique, even if the two produce similar peak pressures...nor does identical peak pressure have the same effect.

I remain a little puzzled and amused over the fascination with high velocity.
 
I carried a Taurus 445 in one of the super alloy packages. Loved it.

No amount of BLAH-BLAH can change that. All rhetoric aside.

Somebody said it wasn't enough gun because it only penetrated 13+ inches?

Hell boys, I ain't a little boy and i don't guess I am that thick front to back

Point is n the end. You choose what you want...and I choose what I want.

No need to argue 6 pages worth.

Want experts?

Buffalo Bore seems to make a number of heavy hitters in 44 sp. THey seem to know about cranking the 44 up to do whatever.

TO me the old round is a lot like a .30-06. You can load it to do whatever you need it to do. Old .06 can be loaded with 125 grain bullets and act as a good varmint round...or all the way up to the 220 grainers and work on old Griz...yes I said that...Mr. O'Connor would agree.

Flexibility is a good thing.

However, shoot somebody with old 44 sp with a reasonable load and they will cease hostilities.

Others will too. But the 44spl is an old /new cartridge that keeps on chugging.

Good night all.
 
Just wish I had more then 5 beans to send the way of the BG especially if he's not alone :uhoh: But to shoot a brownie :confused:
 
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We had one agency with a S&W model-24 in .44 Special. The load was the 200gr. Winchester Silvertip. It wasn't dynamic against flesh & blood, and really pathetic against hard cover. I recall one was recovered sticking in a windshield.

Another dept., that I am quite close to, tried the S&W model-25 in .45 Colt, in the early 80's. The load was a 225gr. LHP; "BIG BROTHER", to the famous "FBI" load. You'd think if it worked well in .38 Special, it should work REAL well, in .45 Colt. Nope...:uhoh: Bad guys didn't seem that impressed, except for pistol-whippin', and it also like the .44 Special, had penetration issues.

Both agencies went to 9mm's! :what: The Federal 115gr. +P+ JHP, became legend! It put perps down for several decades, with an amazing track record. It was just this past year, both went with newer weapons, and the .40 caliber.

In a nutshell: Way back when, the big-bores simply didn't deliver. I believe it was because factory laods were "weak", and also, they weren't coming from Marshal Dillon's 7-1/2-inch Colt...

Oh yeah---I kept my tricked-out .45 Smith when they came off the street. Great fun gun to shoot!

paul21-1.jpg
 
We had one agency with a S&W model-24 in .44 Special. The load was the 200gr. Winchester Silvertip. It wasn't dynamic against flesh & blood, and really pathetic against hard cover. I recall one was recovered sticking in a windshield.
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The Silvertip has been improved some in the last 25 years.

The demise of the larger bore revolver in law enforcement had little to do with the effectiveness of the rounds used. Had a bit more to do with the transition to semis. The 44 spl., the 45 Colt and the 45 acp from a wheelgun continued then and continue now to be effective. But if ya want 6 rounds from them in a da revolver that does mean an N frame.

tipoc
 
I can't help but think you can screw up the Mona Lisa if you load it wrong.

If you want to use light bullets in a big caliber, they either have to move as fast as the lighter calibers, since they are already preexpanded, and, are going to have penetration issues, or, us flat point bullets, they can be light to medium for caliber, still moving at a decent rate, ideally around 1350 fps.

The advantage of the big bores is heavy bullets, or, lighter bullets at high velocity. Both usually occur at the expense of recoil increasing.

If I"m going to use hollow points in a large caliber, they are going to be relatively heavy, for me, starting at 275 grains, and, they are going to be going rather fast, 1560 fps is a minimum pressure load, using AA9, in the .475 Linebaugh. OR, they are going to be heavy for caliber, and going as fast as I can get them to go: Think Hawk HP's.

Those are my ideals. That said, I'll take a 230 grain HP at 1100 fps, if that's all I can get out of it. It isn't a perfect world.

I just find it amazing that a government agency would be so stupid as to take the .44 Special, or .45 Colt, load it with garbage ammo, and blame the caliber.

Loading a 200 grain Silvertip in .44 Special is pretty much defining stupid.
brassfetcher.com had a test of a 185 grain HP, in .44 Mag, going 1571 fps, I IIRC. Penetration was around 12.6" inches. That is an extreme example of how much a big caliber can dump into the target, and not penetrate adequately.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/180grHorn44mag.html

Contrast that with a 240 grain Speer, at 1354 fps, and, look at the difference in what the bullet does to the gelatin, as it blows through it, at pretty much constant speed, then goes through 8" of the arresting block.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Speer240grainJHP.html

So, to answer the original question: ANY caliber is only as good as the common sense that goes into loading it for the purpose it's intended. There are NO magic calibers, or if there are, they use heavier bullets at higher velocities.;)
 
I thought we had been through this.

Here is a link to Brass Fletcher showing a 200 gr. Speer Gold Dot Hollowpoint going 905 fps. It penetrated 13.75" of 10% ballistic gelatin and expanded to .671 diameter.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/CCI Blazer 200 grain Gold Dot hollowpoint.html

This is a load intended for self defense and not hunting. These loads do work in that capacity provided, as always, good shot placement.

There is no real proof that a bullet is ineffective till it gets up to 1300 fps or so but there are a few who believe that to be the case.

For 150 years, longer actually, the 44-40, 44 Russian, 44 American, 45 Colt, 45acp and others have worked well from 6 guns when used right. None broke 1000 fps, and if so not by much and only out of the longer barrels, but each made an impact and some are still widely used. The 44 Spl. is what it is and works well at that. If you want something more powerful look elsewhere. If you want something that fits in a smaller gun I'd encourage you to look elsewhere for that.

tipoc
 
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1911Tuner wrote: "1200 fps with 2400 doesn't bring the same dynamics to the table as 1200 fps with Unique". With all due respects 1200 fps is 1200 fps regardless of how it got there.
ll
 
With all due respects 1200 fps is 1200 fps regardless of how it got there.
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'Preciate the regards, but...no...it's not the same. You stress the gun more with quicker powders than slower ones for a given velocity even at SAAMI spec pressures. Take Bullseye vs 2400 for instance. You'll probably blow the gun apart before the veocity even approaches the level that you can safely attain with 2400. With the same pressure levels, you get far lower velocities with Bullseye.
 
Dirty Harry answered, when asked why he used a 44 magnum, "It hits what I shoot it at," and a few seconds later stated that he used "specials".

The 44 special is just about the factory equivalent of the standard 45 acp.....one has a 230 at around 850, the other a 246 at around 775. One is normally lead, the other jacketed.

I have a 3" bulldog, a 4" 624, and a couple of maggies. I don't feel undergunned with any of them, depending on purpose.
 
lloveless said:
With all due respects 1200 fps is 1200 fps regardless of how it got there.
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Not really. Powder burn rates matter. A powder that burns very fast and has an instant pressure spike can get a bullet to 1200fps. A powder that burns a bit slower and spreads the pressure out over time can get a bullet to 1200fps.

Guess which one will make the gun last longer, or even keep the gun from blowing up?

There is a reason manufacturers publish powder burn rates.
 
I'm rather underwhelmed by the .44 Special.
It's just not that great of a self defense caliber IMO.

I load my 44 special to the exact specs for Elmer Keith's load using a 4 cavity mould of the Keith Design, When I discovered this load would penetrate a telephone pole, I decided it was a good sd load.
 
I'm rather underwhelmed by the .44 Special.
It's just not that great of a self defense caliber IMO.

I load my 44 special to the exact specs for Elmer Keith's load using a 4 cavity mould of the Keith Design, When I discovered this load would penetrate a telephone pole, I decided it was a good sd load.
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So you are so underwhelmed by the .44 Special that you shoot the .44 Special which will penetrate a telephone pole. I'm confused, either you like the Spl. or you don't.

From PapaG;
The 44 special is just about the factory equivalent of the standard 45 acp.....one has a 230 at around 850, the other a 246 at around 775. One is normally lead, the other jacketed.
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Information here is a bit out of date. About the only commercial loads for the .44 Spl. loaded to the 750-755 fps range are Cowboy Action Loads. Several manufacturers use the older lrn bullets in fdeference to the older guns but there is a good chunk of good ammo available. ep and there are more options if you reload.

Again 'll post a link to one of the internet vendors of ammo who lists some of the loads. Click on the images for the technical specs.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...3&categoryId=7552&categoryString=653***691***

tipoc
 
1911 tuner.....watch the Dirty Harry movie with Tyne Daley and get back to me.
 
I am sorry, I am the one that copied the remarks about the 44 special lacking penetration.

I load my 44 Special to the exact recipe used by Elmer Keith, using a 4 cavity mold from Hensley and Gibbs that Elmer ordered for me. I found out one day that this load would penetrate a standard telephone pole. So I decided it would be O.K. for what ever I wanted to use it on. Sorry for the confusion...
 
Dirty Harry, Actually Harry stated that he used Special loads and it was the same as your WADCUTTERS (to David Soul) meaning .38 Special Wadcutters in the Pythons the new bunch were using. This was a scene at the indoor range. He was talking about shooting practice, had nothing to do with what he carried. Sad that I know this but I do. Bill
 
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