It is legal in all 50 states to live trap and exterminate feral cats?
- Thread starter wacki
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wacki
Member
This thread involves the use of traps and firearms to exterminate feral animals. Such a deed is obviously highly controversial and needs to be discussed for a wide variety of reasons. Everything from the cat lovers in this thread that refuse to put a bell & collar on their pets to the 217 million birds slaughtered each year in Wisconsin by ferals is important.
60% of the birds in the US have disappeared in the last 20 years. And maybe you missed this post:
Australia has the highest rate of mammal extinction in the world. Many of its unique species are threatened with extinction. The Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF) fears the country will lose 50% of its bird species in the next century. According the ACF, the biggest problem is land clearing but according to other parties, the predatory habits of alien species - in particular the domestic cat - is the main threat to Australian native wildlife.
http://www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm
I really don't see how anyone with half a brain and half a heart can claim that is a "silly" situation that doesn't need to be discussed.
If feral animals are going to be mitigated then firearms are going to be a significant part of a multi-facet solution. While this thread has taken some unfortunate twists and turns (i am to blame for at least some of that) I learned a lot from this thread and I'm very glad so many took part in it. If the thread is locked fine. I just hope it isn't locked because some people find killing a poor little kitty offensive. Biodiversity is very important to the health of our ecosystem and I hope most people at THR understand that. It saddens me when so many people that claim they care about animals and the environment don't have the stomach to even TOLERATE what needs to be done or take some super basic precautions like neutering their cat or putting on a 99 cent collar.
A week ago I wouldn't have cared about neutered cats and would have thought very ill of those who shot ferals. Now I will likely verbally reprimand every cat owner I know that doesn't take care of their cat and defend feral hunters. This thread has played a significant role in solidifying my about face. And for that I thankyou THR. I learned a lot from this thread.
evan price
Member
I live in the country.
When I moved in the neighbors across the lane had a dozen semi-wild cats living in their garage. I was told they were all dumped cats that decided to move in. Over the years they bred and bred and inbred and more were dumped. I counted almost 60 cats hanging around their house. They would literally cut open a ten-pound sack of generic cat food and dump it on the floor. The smell was overpowering. Then I discovered a broken crawlspace vent under my house and found a cat colony living in there. I live trapped 14 cats in two days after closing off the broken vent. My wife neutered the males and we released them. The females we sent off with a friend who was a state game warden in another state who had visited and knew a no-kill shelter who would take them. Over the next months we systematically trapped and neutered every male in the colony. For the next 5 years the cat population decreased dramatically to manageable levels. Natural predation (coyotes, hawks, cars) took care of dropping the population and the neutered males couldn't get the queens pregnant.
Then the neighbors got a female cat. It was pregnant and threw a litter of 8 kittens. The kids thought they were cute so they kept them. Those 8 (some were males) inbred and became 24. Now there has been another litter and I counted 30 cats, kittens and adoloscent kitties hanging around. They use my flowerbeds for litterboxes, we hear cat yowling and fighting every night, and my and my neighbor's cats, who are collared, belled, spayed or neutered and stay pretty much in our yards, are getting chased away from our own food bowls. The scratches on the cars are not fun. My neighbor put up a new screen door and the screen was shredded a few days later. My front porch smells like cat urine. We are frankly sick of it. Now there have been more litter dumps and a friend of a neighbor dumped their inside cats because they were moving and saw all the cats and figured it was OK. WRONG!!
Since we live in the country (WAAY in the country) I've taken to laying on my roof with a scoped .22 rifle and taking care of those that enter my grounds.
Shoot, shovel, shuddup.
Actually, it's shoot, drag to the hayfield, let the vultures and coyotes hide the evidence. They have to eat too, ya know?
When I moved in the neighbors across the lane had a dozen semi-wild cats living in their garage. I was told they were all dumped cats that decided to move in. Over the years they bred and bred and inbred and more were dumped. I counted almost 60 cats hanging around their house. They would literally cut open a ten-pound sack of generic cat food and dump it on the floor. The smell was overpowering. Then I discovered a broken crawlspace vent under my house and found a cat colony living in there. I live trapped 14 cats in two days after closing off the broken vent. My wife neutered the males and we released them. The females we sent off with a friend who was a state game warden in another state who had visited and knew a no-kill shelter who would take them. Over the next months we systematically trapped and neutered every male in the colony. For the next 5 years the cat population decreased dramatically to manageable levels. Natural predation (coyotes, hawks, cars) took care of dropping the population and the neutered males couldn't get the queens pregnant.
Then the neighbors got a female cat. It was pregnant and threw a litter of 8 kittens. The kids thought they were cute so they kept them. Those 8 (some were males) inbred and became 24. Now there has been another litter and I counted 30 cats, kittens and adoloscent kitties hanging around. They use my flowerbeds for litterboxes, we hear cat yowling and fighting every night, and my and my neighbor's cats, who are collared, belled, spayed or neutered and stay pretty much in our yards, are getting chased away from our own food bowls. The scratches on the cars are not fun. My neighbor put up a new screen door and the screen was shredded a few days later. My front porch smells like cat urine. We are frankly sick of it. Now there have been more litter dumps and a friend of a neighbor dumped their inside cats because they were moving and saw all the cats and figured it was OK. WRONG!!
Since we live in the country (WAAY in the country) I've taken to laying on my roof with a scoped .22 rifle and taking care of those that enter my grounds.
Shoot, shovel, shuddup.
Actually, it's shoot, drag to the hayfield, let the vultures and coyotes hide the evidence. They have to eat too, ya know?
wacki
Member
Just one more thing to add. One of my friends has a cat and claims a bell on his neck is very effective at protecting song birds. The cat still catches tons of rodents but doesn't get any birds. Obviously some people here have had different results.
Tecumseh, I suggest you invest in a 99 cent collar w/ a bell.
Tecumseh, I suggest you invest in a 99 cent collar w/ a bell.
Jamie C.
Member
I used to have a 90 pound Husky/Malamute mix.
If ever there was an animal not built to catch birds, he was it.
Didn't keep him from bringing us about a hundred finches, blue jays, starlings, etc.
I don't know how he did it, but he did indeed do it.
( He also managed to catch and kill a feral cat once, while he was on a chain. Squashed it flat and broke every bone in it's body, but never drew blood. )
So you'll have to pardon me if I don't see a bell as being a significant method of keeping an animal that is built to catch birds from doing it.
Oh, and Wacki... my hat's off to you for your "about-face". I wish it was so easy with the anti-gun folks. Or for that matter, quite a number of other pet owners I know.
And as for anyone that can't make a connection between feral cats and guns... think it through:
How many people think they have rights, but you and I don't?
"Wadda ya mean?", I hear 'em say...
Well, some folks think they have a right to let their pets do as they please, even if it's on someone else's property, but that the property owner doesn't have a right to do anything about it. And some folks think they have a right to feel safe, but that you and I don't have the right to do what we deem necessary to feel the same.
I wonder if both these groups aren't the same people, when it comes right down to it?
Anyway, yeah, it is all the same... the politics of rights and responsibility. Some folk want the one, but shirk the other.
But ain't that always been the way of it?
J.C.
Titan6
member
A bell does not keep a cat from climbing into a nest and slaughtering the young birds. This is how they killed off the game birds at my place. Cats are an invasive species. They wreck the ecosystem and need to be dealt with quickly. I failed to recognize that early on and paid the price.
Highland Ranger
Member
Personal attacks aside:
1. Species come and species go. Get over it. I don't see where songbirds are any more important to the ecosystem than cats. Don't bother quoting any pop science - I am of the larger universe philsophy that says this is the nature of things.
2. What someone does on their property is their business. Move on big brother.
3. Never been a big cat or bird lover. Don't mind them. No desire or need to shoot them. Do own and like dogs; nice animals. But I know folks that shoot all three on THEIR property and understand why.
I just finished your discussion (Jesus and homsexuals aside of course.)
Back to my original point, this is primarily a second amendment rights forum.
Go to a nature, religious or "lifestyles" forum to disucss the other stuff.
There are enough bad stereotypes out there for gun owners without providing visions of bloodthirsty gun owners stomping kittens and shooting everything in sight.
Again - a vote for terminating this [largely] off topic disucssion.
trueblue1776
Member
and there's one more.
I haven't seen to many species coming these days, maybe they heard I shoot cats.
Highland Ranger
Member
So then you agree - close the thread because it is detrimental to the site mission of supporting 2a rights?
And by the way, not that I want to contribute to this silliness (too late I guess) but the hubris of man always brings a smile to my face.
How arrogant we are to think that compared to the greatness and majesty of nature and creation that we matter. Or that our brief consciousness dictates that we have somehow earned some stewardship role for creation.
Silly mortal.
And by the way, not that I want to contribute to this silliness (too late I guess) but the hubris of man always brings a smile to my face.
How arrogant we are to think that compared to the greatness and majesty of nature and creation that we matter. Or that our brief consciousness dictates that we have somehow earned some stewardship role for creation.
Silly mortal.
TamThompson
Member
What really hurts--and maybe this is my femaleness talking--is when you lose a cat and they go feral. We took in 3 wonderful kittens last summer, and one of them ran off..and thank God we found her 2 days later, alive and well, 3/4 mile down the gravel road.
But then another one ran away, and we didn't see her until about 6 months later. (We'd had her only 6 weeks, yet grown attached to her.) She's living 3/4 mile down the gravel road, where a nice lady feeds about 20-30 feral cats. Our former cat is now feral, and I dread the day when nice lady and her husband pass away and move, someone new buys the place...and our former cat is shot. That would break my heart.
We have tried to get our former cat to come to us, but she doesn't seem to recognize us anymore. It's sad...she's a nice cat...and we see her sometimes...but she's wild now...
But then another one ran away, and we didn't see her until about 6 months later. (We'd had her only 6 weeks, yet grown attached to her.) She's living 3/4 mile down the gravel road, where a nice lady feeds about 20-30 feral cats. Our former cat is now feral, and I dread the day when nice lady and her husband pass away and move, someone new buys the place...and our former cat is shot. That would break my heart.
We have tried to get our former cat to come to us, but she doesn't seem to recognize us anymore. It's sad...she's a nice cat...and we see her sometimes...but she's wild now...
TamThompson
Member
NOTE: We live waaaay out in the country, on 16 acres, and so yes, we do let our cats out. Barbed wire fences don't keep them in, either, they just go under them.
wacki
Member
This is the de facto argument put forth by those that either don't study or don't care about the environment. Humans have caused so many species to go extinct it's amazes me that people can still get away with this argument. I mean the great buffalo hunts of the west are pretty common topics in grade school. Yet people don't seem to remember that either. Another obvious one is many species of whales and the dodo bird. Yet for some reason people are seduced by the thought that we don't matter so none of our actions have repercussions. It's complete baloney.
You can make the argument that you don't care. That is a moral decision and one you have every right to express. But there are plenty of monetary, pharmaceutical, disease resistance and environmental/health reasons to have a diverse biosphere.
AntiqueCollector
Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
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Feral cats destroy my vegetable gardens, they're dead cats. End of story. Sometimes mouse traps and rat traps deter them after they get caught in them once or twice, but it's not enough. A neighbor has 16 cats in a two room apartment. Disgusting. Cats are everywhere here, they're worse than rats IMHO because they're not as easy to kill without some foolish person whining about it.
Jamie C.
Member
Okay, try looking up "Passenger Pigeon".
J.C.
wacki
Member
So you express your opinion and then say you aren't going to listen to anything scientific. You remind me of the anti-gunner at the bookstore.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=283280
wacki
Member
I didn't say they were. But back in grade school my history teachers taught my class how people on trains used to shoot buffalo in the west and leave their carcases to rot.
Buffalo went from being the main source of food for the Indians to numbering around 1 to 2 thousand.
In fact, when the Texas Legislature was discussing a bill to protect the buffalo, General Philip Sheridan defended the buffalo hunters and opposed the bill by saying:
”These men have done more in the last two years, and will do more in the next year, to settle the vexed Indian question, than the entire regular army has done in the last forty years. They are destroying the Indians' commissary. And it is a well known fact that an army losing its base of supplies is placed at a great disadvantage. Send them powder and lead, if you will; but for a lasting peace, let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffaloes are exterminated. Then your prairies can be covered with speckled cattle.”
Anyone that thinks man is insignificant is plain naive. Heck we've even depleted 90% of our oceans large fish.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/05/14/coolsc.disappearingfish/
What we do does have an impact. You may not care but facts are facts and BS is BS.
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Highland Ranger
Member
And what we did to dinosaurs . . . terrible. Oh wait, that wasn't evil (capitalist) man . . . . .
And speaking of BS, the buy line for that article says 90% of the world's LARGEST fish.
You see, you left a word out there and in so doing changed the meaning.
And the article itself is more pop science nonsense advancing this latest brand of eco-socialism. There are no FACTS presented. Not even a link to the study itself. Just representations of what may be factual. More pop news and pop science.
And for the eco-socialism, animals are great, humans are evil crowd it's only supporting facts that are useful. That and personal attacks and insults.
Because if I don't agree with you I can't be too bright.
Right?
And speaking of BS, the buy line for that article says 90% of the world's LARGEST fish.
You see, you left a word out there and in so doing changed the meaning.
And the article itself is more pop science nonsense advancing this latest brand of eco-socialism. There are no FACTS presented. Not even a link to the study itself. Just representations of what may be factual. More pop news and pop science.
And for the eco-socialism, animals are great, humans are evil crowd it's only supporting facts that are useful. That and personal attacks and insults.
Because if I don't agree with you I can't be too bright.
Right?
trueblue1776
Member
Guess you don't eat (Rock) Cornish Hens, you're missing out.
wacki
Member
Using this argument you could say: "why should we care about nuclear weapons when the planet used to be part of that giant nuclear bomb called a star"?
It's Large fish. Tuna is included in that category. The distinction shouldn't really need to be said because not very many people order 2" long fish at fancy restaurants. But whatever, I stand corrected.
Well here is one of several studies.
http://www.fisherieswatch.org/docs/261.pdf
Nature is a top scientific journal. Feel free to search google scholar for more facts.
No, part of my job is to congratulate and reward those who correct me. I actually LOVE it when people teach me something I didn't know before. But when people use arguments like "oh the dinosaurs went extinct so all extinctions are natural" then I start to have serious doubts about your reasoning ability. I don't know if that is the exact argument you were using but it certainly seems that way. Maybe you were just saying you just don't give a damn. Either way it's not very good logic.
Like I said before you can argue that we shouldn't care on a moral basis. And I will defend your right to hold that opinion. But the argument that man has no impact is just naive.
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I'm just going to say this :
Cats come on MY property , leaving their excrement on MY property , killing birds at MY bird feeders(not to eat , just for fun) , get into MY garbage , and antagonize MY pets . I would contact the owners , but since their are no collars on them , it's hard to tell who they belong to . I'm no PI and I don't play one on TV . Therefore it's not MY job to find out who's letting their "pets" roam free. If an animal is on my property causing ANY form form of damage ,and it does not have a collar , then it has met it's executioner . Yes I have pets , including 2 cats and a dog . But none get off property , and all have a collar to show that they are actual pets. Now is it a real "pet" if the only time you see it is when it comes home every couple of days to "sleep it off" ?
No collar on my property=feral=dead
Collar on my property =catch=give owner one chance to keep "pet" alive
Cats come on MY property , leaving their excrement on MY property , killing birds at MY bird feeders(not to eat , just for fun) , get into MY garbage , and antagonize MY pets . I would contact the owners , but since their are no collars on them , it's hard to tell who they belong to . I'm no PI and I don't play one on TV . Therefore it's not MY job to find out who's letting their "pets" roam free. If an animal is on my property causing ANY form form of damage ,and it does not have a collar , then it has met it's executioner . Yes I have pets , including 2 cats and a dog . But none get off property , and all have a collar to show that they are actual pets. Now is it a real "pet" if the only time you see it is when it comes home every couple of days to "sleep it off" ?
No collar on my property=feral=dead
Collar on my property =catch=give owner one chance to keep "pet" alive
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