It is official: Most Californians are completely insane and/or mentally retarded
- Thread starter Beethoven
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RealGun
Member
Werewolf said:
I'll bite.
"Let's start with Prop. 73, which would have required parental consent/notification before a minor could have an abortion.
How anyone can possibly argue against that is beyond me. There IS no valid argument against this."
This law is not about parental rights. It's about discouraging abortions. All it will do is revive blackmarket abortions by nonprofessionals. Another possibility is that a young woman will now chose to commit suicide.
I think you should know intuitively that some parents can't handle the information. If not true, it can be the child's fear.
m0ntels
Member
+1
Randy
Have you any real stats to back up your assertions. Do states that have parental consent or just notification have an increase in back door abortions or suicides of pregnant minors. I haven't seen it in my state. Not at all. Or do you just FEEL girls in California would do these things.???????????JUst a question.
longeyes
member
Yeah, only Californians are nuts.
That must be why we have a President now who won't protect our borders and is spending us into a black hole. He wasn't elected by Californians, that we know.
I maintain the nuttiness is, well, quite general. Alas.
That must be why we have a President now who won't protect our borders and is spending us into a black hole. He wasn't elected by Californians, that we know.
I maintain the nuttiness is, well, quite general. Alas.
RealGun
Member
Kim said:
Just take it that I vote against it. You are welcome to research it.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Funny about tenure. My grandfather survived in the Texas public schools for fifty years without it. He taught in high schools; became a school superintendant; moved to Austin and started over and became a school principal through his final years. 1905-1955.
You think the first half of the 20th century was peaches and cream for job security? Think again.
Art
You think the first half of the 20th century was peaches and cream for job security? Think again.
Art
liberty911
Member
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- Apr 16, 2005
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GSB said:
Life absolutely absolutely amazes me in how clueless some people are.
tenure
I work at a University, and I've gotta say: I haven't see a whole lot of PhD level profs doing research, either, at least in the social 'sciences' and humanities.
Think Ward Churchill. Then be afraid, because he's not that unusual.
Jay Kominek said:
I work at a University, and I've gotta say: I haven't see a whole lot of PhD level profs doing research, either, at least in the social 'sciences' and humanities.
Think Ward Churchill. Then be afraid, because he's not that unusual.
Headless Thompson Gunner
Member
Ha! How many conservatives last long enough in Acedemia to earn tenure?c_yeager said:
R.H. Lee said:
Another interesting perspecitve and again flawed. I, with degree, have taken many jobs knowing I could be fired at will at any time. We need more bad teachers like we need more terrorists. We have a THR posters who is a card holding member of the California insanity!
Zundfolge
Member
All that proves is that NOBODY (not even the State of Texas) wants to incur the wrath of Art's Grammaw!Art Eatman said:
chickenfried
Member
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- 497
prop 75
How would prop 75 have told the union how to spend money? It would've protected the rights of the union members not to have their money spent on things they don't support. As far as the right to opt out. I have a lot of friends in the teamsters, most are conservative. But none have opted out, being scared out of it by the document they'd have to sign.
How would prop 75 have told the union how to spend money? It would've protected the rights of the union members not to have their money spent on things they don't support. As far as the right to opt out. I have a lot of friends in the teamsters, most are conservative. But none have opted out, being scared out of it by the document they'd have to sign.
silverlance
Member
well, my .02
there are very, very few YOUNG bad teachers out here in LAUSD (which is usually what people think of when they think of "bad california teachers"). most of them are like me - happy to have a decent job even though it pays only about 36K; idealistically hoping to make a difference, struggling with reinventing the educational wheel because the leadership is a merry-go-round every two years so nobody stays long enough to give a damn about helping new teachers out; working long hours and driving 1-2 hours a day; getting stuck with the worst possible kids because the senior teachers have delusions of being altruistic artistes that should be saved for ap students only.
i'm not going to get into this any further, but only to say this: if someone told me that i wouldn't be getting tenure until FIVE years after i finish my credential, I would quit because there's simply too much risk to put into this difficult career.
teaching isn't like most private jobs - if i got fired, my reputation would be so besmirched (even if it was for something innocuous) that no school would take the risk of hiring me and becoming food for the media, which loves to air "expose" stories about "poor inner city schools".
even here on THR, i hear a ton thinly veiled contempt for the inner city, that term which itself is a fiction designed to define classes and create a false binary of good vs evil.
oh , and - MANY "inner city" teachers are interns that are teaching and working on their credentials at the same time. these interns don't accrue tenure-track seniority until they finish their credential. so that means that interns would have to wait between 7-10 years for tenure.
lessee... 36k for first 3 years, +1k a year or so for every year after that unless you get additional degrees while working, 7 to a decade for job security, working with terribly neglected and dysfunctional children....
when one can take the same education and get a private sector job (or, in my case, accept scholarship to PHD at columbia) where the administration doesn't see you as merely another stepping stone up the bureaucratic ladder?
you might also want to know that in CA, many community colleges (for which there are no unions) have begun hiring professors part-time in order to save money. they hire 3 differnt profs to do the work of one - that way, they don't have to give benefits or the other things that come with full-time labor. the profs are then shuffled from school to school (usually 3 different campuses a week) for years until they manage to brown nose enough to land a real position.
read what an earlier poster wrote about the purpose of tenure.
ultimately, tenure for idiot teachers suck. but there are enough ways for parents that actually care about their kids to get rid of them to not make removing one of the very few incentives new teachers have for entering the profession a necessity.
there are very, very few YOUNG bad teachers out here in LAUSD (which is usually what people think of when they think of "bad california teachers"). most of them are like me - happy to have a decent job even though it pays only about 36K; idealistically hoping to make a difference, struggling with reinventing the educational wheel because the leadership is a merry-go-round every two years so nobody stays long enough to give a damn about helping new teachers out; working long hours and driving 1-2 hours a day; getting stuck with the worst possible kids because the senior teachers have delusions of being altruistic artistes that should be saved for ap students only.
i'm not going to get into this any further, but only to say this: if someone told me that i wouldn't be getting tenure until FIVE years after i finish my credential, I would quit because there's simply too much risk to put into this difficult career.
teaching isn't like most private jobs - if i got fired, my reputation would be so besmirched (even if it was for something innocuous) that no school would take the risk of hiring me and becoming food for the media, which loves to air "expose" stories about "poor inner city schools".
even here on THR, i hear a ton thinly veiled contempt for the inner city, that term which itself is a fiction designed to define classes and create a false binary of good vs evil.
oh , and - MANY "inner city" teachers are interns that are teaching and working on their credentials at the same time. these interns don't accrue tenure-track seniority until they finish their credential. so that means that interns would have to wait between 7-10 years for tenure.
lessee... 36k for first 3 years, +1k a year or so for every year after that unless you get additional degrees while working, 7 to a decade for job security, working with terribly neglected and dysfunctional children....
when one can take the same education and get a private sector job (or, in my case, accept scholarship to PHD at columbia) where the administration doesn't see you as merely another stepping stone up the bureaucratic ladder?
you might also want to know that in CA, many community colleges (for which there are no unions) have begun hiring professors part-time in order to save money. they hire 3 differnt profs to do the work of one - that way, they don't have to give benefits or the other things that come with full-time labor. the profs are then shuffled from school to school (usually 3 different campuses a week) for years until they manage to brown nose enough to land a real position.
read what an earlier poster wrote about the purpose of tenure.
ultimately, tenure for idiot teachers suck. but there are enough ways for parents that actually care about their kids to get rid of them to not make removing one of the very few incentives new teachers have for entering the profession a necessity.
Beethoven said:
He enumerated his points quite clearly, and he had a more accurate command of the facts than you did.
More to the point, you started a thread that was openly insulting the majority of the population of one of the largest states in the union, that doesnt put you in a position to whine too much about the response that you recieve.
madmike
Member
GSB said:
The Supreme Court disagrees with you.
I'm awaiting the refutation by a higher authority with standing in the legal arena.
Please note this is a LEGAL position, not necessarily my MORAL position.
RealGun
Member
Headless Thompson Gunner said:
I think it depends upon the discipline. My father was and my brother is a tenured, senior professor, both plant scientists. They are most definitely conservative as are many of their associates which I have met. Now in humanities and social sciences, I expect I would find it quite different but still a mix.
Two good friends that I just visited are both recently retired economics professors, both Republicans but quite moderate. I just don't think you can paint with too broad a brush in speaking of professors.
What would really concern me would be elite law schools.
ken grant
Member
San-Fran-sis-co, Kali.
Soon Mexico will control Kalifornicate and things will change for the better.
Soon Mexico will control Kalifornicate and things will change for the better.
Glock Glockler
Member
This law is not about parental rights. It's about discouraging abortions. All it will do is revive blackmarket abortions by nonprofessionals. Another possibility is that a young woman will now chose to commit suicide
Ok, please help me out on this one, a school cannot give a child an asprin without parental consent but it's somehow ok for a kid to have a potentially life threatening surgery without the parent's consent? In this country one has to reach 18 before they become a legal adult but under special circumstances one can be legally seperated from one's parents. If a girl has a parent that will attack them if they find out they're pregnant then they should petition a judge due to those circumstances.
No, it's not about discouraging abortions, it's about the govt trying to take over what has been justly and traditionally under the parent's domain.
Ok, please help me out on this one, a school cannot give a child an asprin without parental consent but it's somehow ok for a kid to have a potentially life threatening surgery without the parent's consent? In this country one has to reach 18 before they become a legal adult but under special circumstances one can be legally seperated from one's parents. If a girl has a parent that will attack them if they find out they're pregnant then they should petition a judge due to those circumstances.
No, it's not about discouraging abortions, it's about the govt trying to take over what has been justly and traditionally under the parent's domain.
REFERENCE POST #65 by Silverlance - too long to quote:
Silverlance - if everything you state about teaching in LA is true - and I have no reason to believe otherwise - then teachers that knew all that going in are either:
1. Saints who puts the welfare of others ahead of their own
2. Enjoy the challenge of taking on what appears to be a very bad situation
3. Masochists who enjoys emotional pain
OTOH if they didn't know the situation before they got into it then they are just clueless and deserve no sympathy at all. If it's so bad then get out - like you said they should take their degrees, get a private job and make a whole lot more money. Which makes me wonder about teachers that complain that they could make a whole lot more money in the private sector but don't actually try to find employment in the private sector. Reminds me of the saying those that can... do, those that can't do... teach. I imagine that in the case of teachers who bitch about what they earn and don't do anything about it that the saying is probably true - unless they fall into the saint category that is.
In short - to all the teachers out there complaining about how tough their jobs are - get another one. That's the beauty of capitalism - no one's holding a gun to your heads making you teach.
Regarding tenure - ROFLMAO - what a racket. Try selling that notion in the private sector and see how far it gets you. I don't have a clue why the practice started in the first place (probably a need for it) but its outmoded now and does nothing more than protect lousy teachers who probably couldn't succeed in the private sector if their lives depended on it (which is probably why they're teachers in the first place). :banghead:
Silverlance - if everything you state about teaching in LA is true - and I have no reason to believe otherwise - then teachers that knew all that going in are either:
1. Saints who puts the welfare of others ahead of their own
2. Enjoy the challenge of taking on what appears to be a very bad situation
3. Masochists who enjoys emotional pain
OTOH if they didn't know the situation before they got into it then they are just clueless and deserve no sympathy at all. If it's so bad then get out - like you said they should take their degrees, get a private job and make a whole lot more money. Which makes me wonder about teachers that complain that they could make a whole lot more money in the private sector but don't actually try to find employment in the private sector. Reminds me of the saying those that can... do, those that can't do... teach. I imagine that in the case of teachers who bitch about what they earn and don't do anything about it that the saying is probably true - unless they fall into the saint category that is.
In short - to all the teachers out there complaining about how tough their jobs are - get another one. That's the beauty of capitalism - no one's holding a gun to your heads making you teach.
Regarding tenure - ROFLMAO - what a racket. Try selling that notion in the private sector and see how far it gets you. I don't have a clue why the practice started in the first place (probably a need for it) but its outmoded now and does nothing more than protect lousy teachers who probably couldn't succeed in the private sector if their lives depended on it (which is probably why they're teachers in the first place). :banghead:
RealGun
Member
Glock Glockler said:
We have to avoid debating the abortion issue, but let me just say that you can't legislate that a girl will disclose her secret. One desparate to end an unwanted pregnancy will do it by whatever means necessary. This law is attempting to control the girl by controlling the doctor. The girl will just seek other means of abortion or disappear for awhile. I believe that defending the rights of parents is a disingenuous representation of this issue.
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