Jeff Cooper on Glocks
- Thread starter P. Plainsman
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Lone_Gunman
Member
And he says he never got a dime for designing and promoting it, either.
LoadAmmo
Member
I for one have never fired a Glock, nor have I Fired a 1911, but I can tell you from experience they both suck.
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Manedwolf
member
And fired through them, too!
(And yeah, I know it's a result of poor training, but man...)
Manedwolf
member
Has anyone ever done a study on what will happen to polymers such as the Glock is made of in 50, 100, 150 years?
Lobotomy Boy
Member
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My father-in-law is a highly-accomplished chemist who has made a career of working with the molecular bonding of plastics. His work has made possible such things as detergents that work in cold water and Post-It notes. He thinks polymers like those used in Glock guns will outlast any metal alloy.
But even in a worse-case scenario, if the plastic started to degrade in 50 years, well, I'd be dang near 100 years old, so I'd probably be more concerned with someone changing my disposable undergarment than the integrety fo the plastic in my handgun.
But even in a worse-case scenario, if the plastic started to degrade in 50 years, well, I'd be dang near 100 years old, so I'd probably be more concerned with someone changing my disposable undergarment than the integrety fo the plastic in my handgun.
mike33
Member
hey gunfan, what type ammo do you use in that glock20 if i may ask?
I can't help but wonder...
If the HK USPc, Walther P99, and SIG PRO all cost the exact same as a Glock, would the Glock still be King of the Plastic Handguns?
I'd easily prefer any of the first three over a Glock, however if I'm going to pay close to $800 for a handgun it had better be all-steel. Police and security departments can buy Glocks for under $400 each, so no wonder everybody who's anybody in LEO has one.
If the HK USPc, Walther P99, and SIG PRO all cost the exact same as a Glock, would the Glock still be King of the Plastic Handguns?
I'd easily prefer any of the first three over a Glock, however if I'm going to pay close to $800 for a handgun it had better be all-steel. Police and security departments can buy Glocks for under $400 each, so no wonder everybody who's anybody in LEO has one.
gc70
Member
Darned if Glock folks aren't about as touchy about their guns as 1911 folks.
Flame me if you wish, but if I had to arm a large number of non-enthusiasts, I would choose Glocks because they are inexpensive, reliable, easy to maintain, and simple to use.
<grumble> But I still like my Sigs. </grumble>
Flame me if you wish, but if I had to arm a large number of non-enthusiasts, I would choose Glocks because they are inexpensive, reliable, easy to maintain, and simple to use.
<grumble> But I still like my Sigs. </grumble>
Training is vital for 1911s and any other SA autos, too. There've been thousands of negligent discharges with 1911s because the safety was off. It was bad enough that the military required everyone to carry their pistols with an empty chamber. Not that they did, and there were still tons of negligent discharges as a result. Switching to the Beretta 92 fixed that problem.
Jamie C.
Member
Provided the soldiers remember to hit the decocker before they re-holster....which isn't all that different from remembering to put the safety back on, when you think about it.
So maybe the military just swapped one reason for accidental/negligent discharges for another?
J.C.
"Training is vital for 1911s and any other SA autos, too. There've been thousands of negligent discharges with 1911s because the safety was off. It was bad enough that the military required everyone to carry their pistols with an empty chamber. Not that they did, and there were still tons of negligent discharges as a result. Switching to the Beretta 92 fixed that problem."
So the only way to avoid a negligent discharge with a 1911 is with an empty chamber or the safety on? 1911's do have a grip safety, and the bottom line with any gun is, if you keep your finger off the trigger, it won't fire. Sig's in the 220-229 series, much to my dissaproval, have no manual safety. The 1911 has two idiot resistant features that are forgiving of leaving your finger on the trigger, and is thus is safer in a sense than a decock only pistol. The 1911 may be outdated, but its not abnormaly dangerous when carried cocked and locked.
So the only way to avoid a negligent discharge with a 1911 is with an empty chamber or the safety on? 1911's do have a grip safety, and the bottom line with any gun is, if you keep your finger off the trigger, it won't fire. Sig's in the 220-229 series, much to my dissaproval, have no manual safety. The 1911 has two idiot resistant features that are forgiving of leaving your finger on the trigger, and is thus is safer in a sense than a decock only pistol. The 1911 may be outdated, but its not abnormaly dangerous when carried cocked and locked.
In theory, maybe. In practice, the army has had fewer negligent discharges per year with the M9 than they did with 1911s. Even though 1911s were used back in the good old days when every soldier was a rootin', tootin', shootin' country boy. Maybe training, maybe not.
One of the old masters, Col. Fairbairn, was a staunch advocate of empty chamber carry with 1911s (with the manual safety pinned down). He saw far too many negligent discharges to recommend anything else. I believe Rex Applegate also favored empty chamber carry.
In practice, dumb people have a lot of negligent discharges with 1911s, all due to failure to keep the booger hook off the bang-switch. If anything, 1911s are more dangerous in that respect, since an untrained user might think "oh, it's on safe, it can't go off," when the pistol is actually not on safe. Glocks, revolvers, etc. are never "safe," so it's easier for an untrained idiot to understand that the finger is off the trigger unless firing.
QUOTE
In theory, maybe. In practice, the army has had fewer negligent discharges per year with the M9 than they did with 1911s. Even though 1911s were used back in the good old days when every soldier was a rootin', tootin', shootin' country boy. Maybe training, maybe not.
END QUOTE
The reason for less discharges is better training not the switch to M9's.
Pat
In theory, maybe. In practice, the army has had fewer negligent discharges per year with the M9 than they did with 1911s. Even though 1911s were used back in the good old days when every soldier was a rootin', tootin', shootin' country boy. Maybe training, maybe not.
END QUOTE
The reason for less discharges is better training not the switch to M9's.
Pat
gunfan
Member
What kind of ammunition do I use in my Glock 20?
Mike 33 queried: "hey gunfan, what type ammo do you use in that glock20 if i may ask?"
On duty, I prefer the power and reliability of Double Tap ammunition (CEO - Mike McNett, Cedar City, Utah. 1-866-357-1066 and also @ www.doubletapammo.com.) Cor-Bon Ammunition is also good.
When it comes to the large corporate ammunition manufacturers, I like to shoot Winchester's 175-grain Silver Tip Hollow Point loads. These are great General Purpose hollow point ammunition, for either street, or field use.
CCI-Speer has a great aluminum-cased 200-grain TMJ load in their blazer line. These generate .357 S&W Magnum energies with lower pressures in a practice load.
The UMC (Remington) "green and white" boxed ammunition is also very good for informal target practice.
I hope that this helps,
Scott
Mike 33 queried: "hey gunfan, what type ammo do you use in that glock20 if i may ask?"
On duty, I prefer the power and reliability of Double Tap ammunition (CEO - Mike McNett, Cedar City, Utah. 1-866-357-1066 and also @ www.doubletapammo.com.) Cor-Bon Ammunition is also good.
When it comes to the large corporate ammunition manufacturers, I like to shoot Winchester's 175-grain Silver Tip Hollow Point loads. These are great General Purpose hollow point ammunition, for either street, or field use.
CCI-Speer has a great aluminum-cased 200-grain TMJ load in their blazer line. These generate .357 S&W Magnum energies with lower pressures in a practice load.
The UMC (Remington) "green and white" boxed ammunition is also very good for informal target practice.
I hope that this helps,
Scott
gunfan
Member
Pat said:
"The reason for less discharges is better training not the switch to M9's."
There is NO excuse for lack of training. Pat is 100% correct! Training and practice... training and practice... Did I mention training and practice?
Good shootin'
Scott
"The reason for less discharges is better training not the switch to M9's."
There is NO excuse for lack of training. Pat is 100% correct! Training and practice... training and practice... Did I mention training and practice?
Good shootin'
Scott
[email protected]
Member
About 15 or so of us Deputies requalified last week... I won my 3rd $20 bet that my "old-fashioned, obsolete" 1911 would never make it through the 50 round qual without jamming. (Some people never learn). My Delta ran like a top (as it always does), while the .45 Glock shooters on either side of me had their hands up with jams, one of them twice. Glocks are more than adequate for general-issue service weapons, but they aren't wheelguns... hell, even wheelguns aren't wheelguns. You can't just stuff them in a holster and forget about them. Any gun requires some basic care and attention, that being said, I'll stick with my Delta.
BTW, DSK is right on... given equal price points, there are better systems out there. Glock, more than anything, relies on marketing and economy of scale to dominate the LEO market.
DanO
BTW, DSK is right on... given equal price points, there are better systems out there. Glock, more than anything, relies on marketing and economy of scale to dominate the LEO market.
DanO
atblis
Member
Honda and Toyota
Having driven both, the Hondas tend to be a much more amusing car. The Camrys just kind of wallow.
Having driven both, the Hondas tend to be a much more amusing car. The Camrys just kind of wallow.
Lobotomy Boy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,449
I'm with you. The Glocks are definitely Accords, which is no small complement. I've never shot any gun that's as boring as a Camry.
Guns_and_Labs
Member
Somehow, I just love that!
I find Glocks very attractive, in a dangerous sort of way. My 1911's are attractive, too, but they say different things. The Glock is pure business, not much on invoking pride of ownership, just confidence in ownership. 1911's have a cool factor, only appreciated by its fans, which probably is a reason for the "1911 cult".
I think Cooper's saying the same thing.
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