Jihadist caught near Chicago, planned grenade attacks on shoppers.

[Deanimator]

i can think of 4 or 5

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ways to rig grenades to go off well after i leave the area. theres a book out with a guy from vietnam decribiing how he put grenades in jars to heave from his helicopter so that when the jars break on impact the grenade pin flies of let him fly higher and not have the grenades airburst too high.

However, there is no practical and effective way to do it as described in the condescending post directed toward people who CCW.

A handgrenade in a jar in a garbage can is a paperweight until something breaks the jar. No such mechanism was postulated... but then neither was the presence of a jar or any other instrumentality.

I've got FM 25-5 and the Special Forces Programmed Text for Improvised Demolitions. I've read the CIA Blackbook on demolitions and explosives. Instead of a credible reason why the wouldbe terrorist couldn't be stopped by those who CCW, I just saw a gratuitous dig at people who take responsbility for their own self-defense. I saw no informed reason why a CHL holder would not be able to stop this attack, nor any alternative. I just saw an attack on people who CCW.

Not especially "high road" if you ask me...

 

[emitt1]

CDCMJ - Fine you're a fine upstanding man of America, didn't mean to offend you, as a person. But, I've been told, perhaps its just a rumor, that your faith dictates my (an Infidel) destruction, if you are unable to convert or otherwise change my mind on my beliefs. If this is so - I'm sorry, you carry the card, Sir, and as such, (perhaps not you personally) your faith is this country's enemy. Now I'm just a simple old boy, and tend to see things in simple ways, I'm sure I'm not as highbrow as other readers of this forum, so will you please explain to me how you seperate the two camps of Muslim followers. See you later this evening when I've the time to read your reply. Thanks.
emitt1

 

[shermacman]

This isn't just some dude named Derrick. His name (by some reports) is not Derrick Shareef, Derrick is a nick name. His name is Talib Abu Salam Ibn Shareef. Now, that may be a nick name too, but it doesn't sound like: "Dude, you got any grenades for this set of speakers? How about a pistol for my iPod?"

 

[Deanimator]

I was in the Infantry for 21 years and served in every position from rifleman to first sergeant. I've handled a few grenades in my time. I can think of several ways right off the top of my head where you could use a grenade in a trash can and make your escape.

You don't have to stand in front of the trash can and shout Allah Akbar!! while you let the spoon fly off.

Every news reoprt I've heard says he planned to place the grenades in a trash can. To me, placing them in a trash can says that he intends for them to detonate after he's gone. It would be much more effective for him to just throw the grenades into the crowd. You're going to cut the casualty radius considerably by using the grenades in a trash can. You certainly aren't going to get a lot of secondary missiles from a plastic trash can and it's mostly paper contents.

So I have to ask you what you're experience with grenades is that you think CCW is a good defense against a grenade in a trash can?

Suicide bomber, yes, CCW is a defense and a deterrant. Explosives placed in a crowded place it's no deterrant.

You postulated no credible means by which he could effectively employ a handgrenade in a garbage can. You still have not.

If he pulled the pin and tossed in a handgrenade, he likely wouldn't get past the first one. I can think of ways to use a handgrenade, but you didn't cite any of them, and I doubt he was bright enough to use any of them, much less effectively.

Like I said, I didn't see any reason why a CHL holder couldn't have stopped him, just a dig at CHL holders.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

Derrick Shareef, of Rockford, Ill was arrested Wednesday by the Joint Terrorism Taskforce when he met an undercover agent to trade hand grenades and a 9-millimeter handgun for a set of stereo speakers.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like an idiot. For some reason I doubt a "real" terrorist would be trying to trade speakers for explosive devices. Someone at all involved with any terrorist organization would make their own, it's not that hard.

This guy is either someone suffering from serious mental problems or a retard with Columbine dreams. Can't you guys see the difference between a lone nut job and the real terrorists who threaten this country?

This reminds me of that .22 short found in London...yeah, it was "live ammo", and could be dangerous under the right situations (kind of like this loon), but come on!

 

[Art Eatman]

Deanimator, given how many times people here denigrate news articles, why worry about a reporter's idea about the details? Why not just leave it that the guy had some notion of using hand grenades? Who really cares about his own little nutzoidal notions?

If I knew how to modify a hand grenade, I wouldn't tell it on the Internet. I'd just as soon Jeff didn't, either.

Art

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i'm gonna take the fifth vis a vis my grenades

but if i wanted to do some harm with grenades and not get caught it would be easy. i'd rather not decribe how least some dimwit use the methods. but its pitifully easy

 

[Autolycus]

emitt1: do you feel that every Catholic is a terrorist simply because the IRA are a predominantly Catholic organization? How about the people who bomb abortion clinics? Is every priest a pedophile?

If you want to make some generalizations please do.

THe Muslim community spoke out very much against terrorism. Just no one listened.

http://www.google.com/search?source...GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-10,GGLJ:en&q=muslims+speak+out

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

maybe

if emmit 1 had a chance to peruse a koran he might be more enlightened, heck the old testament is a scary book and several "fringe" churches use that book to motivate their troops in scary ways.

there are folks that attach themselves to the minutemen that make tim mcveigh look well adjusted. does that make all them like that

 

[Keith Wheeler]

but if i wanted to do some harm with grenades and not get caught it would be easy. i'd rather not decribe how least some dimwit use the methods. but its pitifully easy

I think it takes a certain lack of imagination to not be able to figure out how to time delay grenades.

 

[Jeff White]

Deanimator said;

However, there is no practical and effective way to do it as described in the condescending post directed toward people who CCW.

No, it was a condescending dig at those in our community who think that because they carry a gun they are the last line of defense between civilization and anarchy and generally reinforce the stereotypr the antis try to portray us as a bunch of uneducated, unsophisticated, trigger happy bumpkins who live in homes that look like bunkers, wear camouflage clothing and marry our cousins.

I've got FM 25-5 and the Special Forces Programmed Text for Improvised Demolitions. I've read the CIA Blackbook on demolitions and explosives. Instead of a credible reason why the wouldbe terrorist couldn't be stopped by those who CCW, I just saw a gratuitous dig at people who take responsbility for their own self-defense. I saw no informed reason why a CHL holder would not be able to stop this attack, nor any alternative. I just saw an attack on people who CCW.

So let me get this straight, you read all about this in FM 5-25 and that makes you some kind of demolition expert? Just because you don't know enough about how a grenade may be detonated remotely or on a time delay, you think it's not possible?

Not especially "high road" if you ask me...

It's not especially high road to reinforce all those stereotypes. If we don't win the culture war and make gun ownership and CCW accepted by the mainstream, we will lose RKBA. The real fanatics in the disarmament movement know they have to marginalyze us to win. We don't help our cause when we start talking about how CCW is a defense against a planted bomb.

Jeff

 

[feedthehogs]

to trade hand grenades and a 9-millimeter handgun for a set of stereo speakers

A guy who ain't bright enough to know that black market grenades and a 9 go for much more than a set of speakers, will end up blowing himself to spam particles along with others and debating on leaving the grenades in a can so he can run and fight another day is pretty much a moot point.

 

[El Tejon]

They do not have to be smart. They just have to be angry and dedicated.

Another place in need of hero CCWers recently: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/279410_shootmain29.html

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

I've been told, perhaps its just a rumor,

And yet you sounded awfully authoritative in your previous post. I thought for sure you were basing it on something you would be able to defend if challenged. I was waiting to hear where you got your information.

 

[buzz_knox]

It's not especially high road to reinforce all those stereotypes. .

The stereotype being perpetrated here is being done by you, Jeff. The discussion of concealed carry was dealing with whether targets would be chosen in areas not conducive to concealed carry. Now, I don't have your military background, but that would seem to be a nobrainer. You were the one who decided to take the thread into a low road by discussing "hero" CCWers and effectively preheating the oven to flame anyone who decided to discuss even whether or not CCW would have helped.

For what it's worth, no, a concealed weapon would not help stop emplaced explosives. Now, if a person happened to see the perpetrator emplacing said explosives, or if the bomber slipped up and did something stupid like not fully concealing his device (which is what happened in the case El Tejon referred to and is what Israel teaches its population to be on the look out for), things could be different. I'd discuss that, but I'd just as soon not be flamed as a Walter Mitty wannabe for simply having that conversation.

 

[gunsmith]

don't tell me what to say or think

All Muslims are peaceful!

Except for the ones that are not

The same can be said for the entire human race.

 

[.45&TKD]

please explain to me how you seperate the two camps of Muslim followers

Easy, shoot the one that is endangering the lives of yourself or others, just like any other bad guy shoot, except in this case he will be the guy with the grenades.

And yes, a law abiding man with a handgun is the last line of defense in a situation like this, although not the perfect defense. (Don't bring a handgun to a grenade fight comes to mind).

 

[ilbob]

I have zero years of military service but can still think of multiple ways one might rig a grenade to go off after a short time delay. It seems likely anyone with Internet access can get detailed plans without much trouble.

There is a Darwinian winnowing of the terrorists going on. The dumber ones get caught and it helps the smarter ones learn from it.

Personally, I am surprised there have not been any directed attacks. It may mean our defenses are working better than we think, or more likely the terrorists may be just waiting for the right moment.

 

[El Tejon]

If there any men in Washington D.C. right now, they could use this opportunity to effectively deputize the nation's CCW holders and do what buzz mentioned.

"O.K., here's what we do to combat this problem. Here's what to look for and if you see anyone placing explosives, here's what to do."

Instead we get a USA in a gray suit talking about how it is O.K. to continue shopping and spending money.

ilbob, yes it can take The Base's infrastructure 8 to 9 years between attacks.

 

[real_name]

or more likely the terrorists may be just waiting for the right moment.

Agreed, and it could be argued that there is no shortage of Americans for them to kill over in Iraq without having to come here and risk being captured.
When/if we pull out of Iraq we will see trouble here again.

 

[Deanimator]

This guy is either someone suffering from serious mental problems or a retard with Columbine dreams. Can't you guys see the difference between a lone nut job and the real terrorists who threaten this country?

LIRR gunman Patrick Ferguson was a lone nut job...

 

[hunttheevil]

Sounds like everyone is venting because we don't like terrorists in our front yard. I would expect all the CCW holders would use their common sense in this situation. The terrorist throwing the grenade would get the business end of a weapon, but the individual placing an explosive charge in a trash can on timer or remote will catch you by surprise. Hopefully, in this situation no one will be close enough to be seriously injured. Alot of malls in my area have metal decorative trash cans and just replace the full bags. Three or four grenades would make alot of shrapnel out of a lightweight trash can, which would be my concern.

 

[LAR-15]

Concealed carry has worked for the Israelis on occasion.

 

[Art Eatman]

This is not a discussion; it's a squabble. Any more of this backing and forthing and it's gonna be a "What happened to that thread?"

, Art

 

[cdcmj]

Here you go emmit

gunsmith - All Muslims are peaceful!

Except for the ones that are not

The same can be said for the entire human race.

Gunsmith hit the idea for the most part. I have an entire family in the the middle east (grandmother, uncles, aunt, too many cousins to count) and the last time i visited, I never felt more welcome by another culture. I, being a white american, stuck out like sore thumb over there. I signed autographs, posed for pictured with little kids, all simple based on what I represent and look like to them. Your question was how to separate the two muslim camps, its simple, 99.9% are like your family and friends, and the other .1% are a group of terrorists, fundamentalists, that give the islamic world a horrible name (keep in mind its the largest following in the world). All that I can ask for is for simple people, like emmit, to try to encorporate a more widley view on life and not let the media shepard your views (refer to my bottom information) towards bigatory and racism. Lastly, I just want to mention I am a firefighter and became one after 9/11..If anyone should be prejudice, it should be me...